July

Laguna, just sit back and look at what you have become. I can think of no greater torment for you.

I know you will tell me that I've got this all wrong, but you needn't worry - I know better.

You have become the grand hypocrite. You threaten to see people removed from the game for not playing it the way that you/W3 want them to play, because they are making war on the nasty little noobs who do not play this game the way they want them to play.

You have to admire the cyclic irony of it all.

Its a shame you've descended to such a low. But then, I've seen this change in you happening for quite some time.

I won't be taking sides in this war - I fear I know more about it all than I ought to.

But I just want you to know that it saddens me to see you reduced to this level. And I am sorry that it has come to this.

I am so very, very sorry my friend.

Good to know someone else noticed the irony of this travesty. Others, however, don't recognize it, reject it, or aren't honest about it.

That, however, doesn't pose as a problem to me. I don't have a problem with forbidding actions and behaviors that damage the game, and do so systematically, accurately and openly. Otherwise, why even complain about multiplaying, extortion, abuse, spam?
When others say they won't allow having their freedom restricted, and in the next minute begin restricting others in a very active way, then that makes them grand hypocrites.


And you have all missed this quite a few times, perhaps blinded by exasperation, but this isn't about me, Valde or W3C. This is about half the community and a little more that is tired of the rampant behavior.

Do you have not a word for them? Don't live in fear, make a stand? Well, Sam, Jason, why don't you bring your warhorses out of War Protection, so I can show them that even a player, using only C3s, can make an effective and successful stand.


You are not the only one who has seen people change, Klarina. I remember how you were three years ago. Care to sit back and think about it? I would say that you took a path parallel to mine in some points, but largely differentiating in destination. The most common element of both paths is a large dose of indifference.

It was through indifference and inaction things grew as they grew. I'm just not indifferent anymore. Still very lazy, though.

No.

Lance of Abaddon.
Lance of Dubhthaigh.
Lance of Longinus.
Lance of Nyx.
Lance of Oceanus.

When you risk these I will be more than happy to take them from you.

Thus I reduce your self-assumed theocratic sim-power on LU at least and have won a tangible victory for freedom to play a game as the player sees fit.

Otherwise here is a pointy stick.

Use it on your various orifices.

I don't deny being indifferent, Laguna. To most things, at least, though not all - some things do get me riled, and some things do sadden me.

Such as this situation.

What I have grown indifferent to is the behaviour of W3 and yourself. It has not gone unnoticed that there is a huge degree of elitism in this game, and it exists in two forms.

W3 clearly have their favourites - those who they wish to prosper, and those who they wish to punish. Only a fool would deny this - we see it in every move they make, every change they force down our throats and evey single time they defend their position or espouse their own indifference towards the detriment they cause.

At the same time, the playerbase shows much the same thing. There are tiers of players - levels of respect differentiated by skill, which stratify the playerbase and determine directly the attitudes expressed between one layer of this system and the next. You will see this in any online game.

The former is a symptom of the game owners tiring of the latter, and acting aggressively against it, making moves which reduce the playerbase's ability to enforce their will or defend it - the very nature of the 'fun' aspect of any game - in effect punishing those who wish to excell.

The trouble is, this attitude from the GMs only serves to increase the void between each stratum, making the situation worse as they disenfranchise and alienate their would-be loyal, long-term playerbase.

W3 have never fully grasped that recruiting new players is easier if you don't then alienate any and all that would go on to be successful - a happy playerbase will do all the recruiting the game needs, provided that the game is worth it. A happy playerbase invests more in a game, which, ultimately, ought to be what W3 seek from us.

And in acting as they have, W3 have created a hostile group of expert gamers who find themselves with no other way to vent their frustrations than to attack those whom the GMs cast a favourable light on - the ever-irritating, invulnerable twink of a noob.

The flavour of such actions grows bitter after such lengths of time.

And now, on top of all that, it has finally reached the point where they/you threaten players with being banned if they do not conform as desired.

I'm sorry, but we have a very apt word for that: Fascism.
[fash-iz-uhm] -noun
A system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.

The way that W3 discriminate against the playerbase is nothing short of a racist attitude, race in this case being a synonym of skill. They openly suppress opposition to their views, and criticism thereof. They have never been backwards in doing so.

I know you see this in the game, Laguna. That is why you are behaving as you are. And it is also why the others behave as they do.

A conflict between the veterans of this game and the player who was the visible face of W3 enforcement has been, in my view, inevitable. I'm simply surprised it took so long. What saddens me is that somebody who would claim to have been the most helpful player in the game (rightly or wrongly) ever would support such GM elitism.

What upsets me the most is that it is you, of all people.

My sympathies, Laguna, and my deepest, most sincere regrets.

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Why for are ewe guys picking on Laguna?

Come on guys, lets all be friends and share the cookies i bought today. Plzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

The juciest thread EVER!!!

That said, I've been gone too long . . .

EO, Sam, Jason, Wild <<(Especially) I Luuv you guys . . .


"Also, in case you haven't noticed, this isn't "Laguna & and his fed". This is just Laguna and whoever wishes to join."

/ME ME ME Raises hand

I cant phathom how many times I have said it,

But me Luuvs ma LG

Count me in for kicks if anything Laggy

Call me a preservationist. No hard feelinz to anyone, its just a game. I'll welcome myself back. I've had a long nap.

The High Profite$$ has Returned <=====(for all Laggy haters)Muahahhaaaaaa

Im coming back!

Hey LG, need a hand dude???

Hey Wendy, Jason, Wild, Sam......good to see you all again

The logical solution to deal with players not playing "right" would be to set up each world to fit different play styles. The different worlds have naturally evolved towards this already, just carry it farther. Here is a few rough ideals, of course other adjustments will be needed to balance them out completely. In other words, instead of one SC game on different worlds with a few tweaks, make it 4 to 5 different games of a sort.

WG - peaceful, economic driven already. Make it war between players by mutual consent only, no hostile bids, etc...

FB - war world with a poor economy. Make military cheaper and not cost as much to lose countries. Make the economy less important to build up.

LU - fastest pace, most money to be made, highest risk for war, obviously the most popular world, leave it as is - aggressive.

GR - mixed world

KB - mixed world (might make a Fed-free world, could be interesting)

Get lost n00b...

Hello

fight a stand up fight or leave lu lg.

Gamemaster
to me

show details 8:30 AM (4 hours ago)


Reply

Follow up message

Hi,



We get many complaints about wars against new players.

Stop please or wars will be prohibited for you on all the worlds.



The gamemaster

Good to see the invisible ban-stick finally became visible. I emailed asking for further clarification on what they want. I wonder if that means I can't start wars on FB either... if not I suppose I'll have to finally "take it to the war world."

If players do not like wars, perhaps they ought to play a game in which war is not a feature - or invest more heavily in war protection.

You'd think I was the scourge of noobs and single them out as targets or something... which really doesn't happen. I am assuming, until I get a reply with clarification, that the message really just means "stop killing everyone." More like a moratorium on starting wars in general for me... that sort of thing.

the game without war wouldn't be a good game, there may be other solutions to solve this problem.

Like everybody just kickin mucho ARSE!!!!

sounds good to me Alariach

OOOooo Oooooo . . . I got one

up to >>>>3>>3<<<< secured countries per world

Now that is just awesome . . .

I remember some point hearing that while The Gods and Devils may influence you, they are happy with influence, and leaving free will intact. . .

Good guys need to be good guys if this is the case. New players need to be protected, on LU there is Govt.

As a new player, I was attacked by LDI. I found a way to deter their actions. . . and the game changed.

Now that I am not new, I chose to help Laguna.

Not to name LG particularly, BUT the LG "types" of the game need share their war knowledge more freely. If for unspoken common sense reasons they don't want to share this knowledge so "new" players can protect themselves. . . The LG "types" in the game should actively preserve their game environment. And the "me(s)[corny I know ]" . . . need join the LG(s) in actively keeping the "LDI(s)" busy.

The Gods ultimately win, but less direct intervention is good for the community

This kind of public spectacle isn't good for the new ignorant sim presidents. It leads to rumors of conspiracy and dabbling that isn't conducive (from what I have read here. . . please no ban me) to keeping the stigma of GM interference down. Players should have this kind of assurance that this won't happen. Otherwise there will be a feeling of no win and no win.

Just my two scents

Shouldn't this sort of issue be more in the domain of the Security Council? Isn't that the idea of a security council?

By no means do I profess to have the details worked out, but to give the SC more teeth to control "rogue nations" and so leaving the decision of who, if anyone, is picking on newbs etc. to the player base, not the single mind of the GM, seems to be a better direction than this is heading.

Just an aging newbs thoughts :p

CraftyCockney

Since everyone seems to be here...figured I should write something and find some time to read this long ass thread.

Anyways I'd just like to say that I completely agree with Klarina's analysis of the situation and the real cause of the decaying player community.

As a player who left, then came back...I think I have some of the most insight into this problem.

I left for exactly the reasons Klarina outlined above i.e., the GM. On multiple occasions the GM has made changes that were opposed by the player community. This is something that a gm CANNOT do if they expect to hold their playerbase. All successful companies rely on the theory that satisfying the wants and needs of their customers ultimately satisfies the needs of its owners. The GM's perhaps should follow the saying, "the customer is always right" more closely.

This attitude held by the GM pretty much applies to many other problems the GM creates. (Yes...the bad changes they sometimes make are only one of the problems)

As for the rumor that LDI, Wild, etc... are responsible for the lack of new players, killing of noobs, etc... I'd just like to say that when I was a new player LDI was a primary reason i remained to play the game as long as i did, and ultimately came back now.

When I was new all I asked LDI to accept me into their ranks, and that acceptance didn't take much. All it took was the fact that I hadn't stirred up trouble with anyone. At that stage I was a huge noob, and I am still not the most experienced player. However, my progress can all be attributed to what Sam, Wild, Jason, Pink had all taught me over my time here.

Although someone who has not been in LDI or asked to be in it might not realize that what I have said here is true, those who have not done these things will never have an accurate perception.

The actions of LDI, albeit may include fighting new players, etc... are all for the entertainment of the members of LDI, not some evil plot to exterminate new players or force them to conform as LG portrays it.

I believe that the most endearing quality of LDI, is that its members treat the game indifferently. Let me elaborate on this, since indifference has come up quite often in LG's posts as being negative.

Not indifferent in that we don't care about the progress of the quality of the game, etc... etc..., this game is indeed a GAME to us. I think LG and many others have lost this insight although some still hold it. Although LDI and wendy have had their differences, I honestly believe that Wendy is one of those people that has acquired this insight since I have returned. Just look at her posts and you can see that she is having FUN, this is what a GAME is all about. The loss of this insight is one of the reasons for the decay of this GAME.

One side word in response to an LG post somewhere above...LG, you are NOT fighting for a majority of the community. Indeed not even a large minority.
Just read this thread over one more time and count how many posts support your actions vs. don't support your actions. You will find that over 90% of them denounce what you are doing and have become.
You have simply become another GM, fucking up the game for everyone.

P.S. sorry for the absurdly long post...I needed to catch up on the excitement.

Forgot to mention something...

As for Wild's warning...that is completely out of line from the gamemaster. If the GM wants to protect noobs, then give them free war protection.
Do not penalize a player for having fun with the game WITHIN THE RULES.

You can only penalize players for breaking the rules. So far as I can tell, Wild has not broken any rules.
This is an example of the GM's bad attitude.
To the GM, take this as a general message from most of the community. You must learn that customers are what makes the game run and give you money. Making them happy should be your primary concern. Stop fucking up the game and being stupid.

Well said Slocketer

yup I knew lg would pull out that gm card.