WAR LEVELS... REBOOTED

DAmn those "ideas", lol! Josias, good stuff.

No it isn't 'our game' You pay for a service. You provide nothing.

WB your a fucking retard moron. You thought you were the resident genius. And then you woke up.

I don't care if they stay or go. I could raid a million countries if war levels were peeled back.

I can also throw my empires into level 0 like a lot of other players and eat like that too.

I don't care if they put it back or keep it as it is. I'll still be me and you'll still be crying.

At this point Whiteboy you shouldn't even suggest anything ever again in the game. We know you will, but only you and the little group of people that actually cater to your selfish attitude will care or even take you seriously.

W3c has taken the ideas you presented in a thread just like this one and all they have got in return is a bunch of grief. Why should they listen to any more of your 'cure-all' bullshit.

You all should just play the game as it is now or find what you don't get here somewhere else. I've said that before war levels, and I have consistently said that again after war levels.

No need to argue with children so find another adult to bother WB. I'm getting board with your dense ass.

I'd like to stoop to your level Wendy but it's already been displayed over and over that it isn't worth it. I'm one level of player and you're another, don't want to disrespect myself by getting into a bitching fight with you.

You were and have continued to be one of the main opponents of any idea which didn't serve your self interest, pretending differently is just embarrassing for you.

If you want the game rolled back, roll it all the way back. No war protection, no blackouts, let the players police the game. It was effective in the past to an extent, it could be effective again...if you aren't willing to go that far then stop pretending that any change to the game means the player suggesting the change should just leave. Also, suggesting this entire thing was my idea is ridiculous and everyone knows it, I had one proposal that got manipulated to be many different. I'll take responsibility for supporting it in the interest of solving many problems at once and I'll admit that was naive, but unless you're willing to say that all rules implemented that change the system from a free market system to a regulated system have been detrimental, there is no reason to stop considering different solutions.

Calling me a bitch every chance you got is stooping to a level? Oh and the worse I did was call you a 'Uni-Boy' Stoop to my level? What the fuck eva.

You are an embarrassment period.

How your dense ass doesn't get that your 'cure all' was a disaster, yet you stand here again with yet more solutions is an embarrassment.

The truth is I pointed out the obvious before during and after the conversation that you led that ended up with us having war levels. You have a proven track record for stupidity and it has been pointed out to you in every instance. But regardless of that fact you have still convinced yourself that you have 'the answer' again? Denial much.

Again... I'll pass and so should everyone else.

Your half recognition that you were wrong and to blame for this awful update does not excuse the fact that you were wrong. You will continue to be wrong into the foreseeable future.

I like how you say 'I' want the game peeled back to where it benefits 'me' most. 'I' played the game before these changes and and wasn't asking for any. I never have. You pushing for war levels was a clear example of trying to change the game to suit your needs and change it to benefit you most. I assume you aren't a major in psychology because you aren't very good at the reverse side of it. Nice try.

News flash it isn't just me who wants your horrible suggestions peeled back there was a vote that passed titled 'repeal Whiteboy's War Engine' and it passed by a whole lot of votes. A whole lot more than me. Included in that list are people that initially agreed with you and thought this was actually a bright idea. That isn't a coincidence.

The hard truth is that I actually don't care if they change it back. I can adapt, I have done so since I started playing this game and I will continue to do so as most of the changes to war related issues were aimed at me in my time in simcountry.

To address your last paragraph of absolute nothingness, the solution is to play the game you were introduced to, or leave. There is no happy medium in between that. The more changes you introduce that involve the way the game is played now will only add to the level of confusion and the persistent atmosphere of distrust between veteran player and gm. There is a reason that many long time vets have left the game and it is in large part because of ridiculous changes made to an already working system in the face of ignoring already promised improvements made by the gms in hopes of pleasing crybaby ass players like yourself among other who need to change the game to gain an advantage, and threaten to leave if not listened to.

Well they listened, many more people will leave. You fade into obscurity while we are left to deal with your nonsense suggestions and now that you returned you bring with you many more ridiculous suggestions. Should we bite this time?

No!

I didn't last time but at least people know that your aren't as smart as you put on and not to listen.

I don't care if we go back or stay as we are. That being said, my position doesn't preclude me from pointing out the stupidity of the idea to start with. Nor which idea is better. I am actually proposing that those who are that serious about peeling back start by requesting it just for FB. Not the entire game. You don't suppose me starting on FB and leaving the rest of the game as it is(how you wanted it) is me jumping up and down to go far back enough to where it benefits me most? Do you? Proves you're really really dense as stated previously. Duh, no surprise there.

And Josias...

How far you have fallen from grace my friend.

Since you joined the ranks of the mob you have changed a lot. Not for the better either. I've always been an asshat so I don't care throw your rocks. I told you a long time ago you scare me more than the bad guys because you put on the sheep's wool and you wear it and play the part well. Too well for me. I don't understand why you again are diverting onto a 'solution' for c3 warriors when first of all, the game doesn't have a threat from c3 warriors. In most cases it is those who designate themselves most willing and able to fight and compete but take competition out of the game by grouping together and jumping anyone who represents a threat. It is these groups of players at any given time who find themselves in that position. Moving on let us not forget that you and your friend who recently left have both participated simultaneously in c3 wars against the very same dipsticks I went against. To date you have been the only person to have help while conducting a c3 war operation. I have always done this myself and with no help whatsoever. Is hypocrisy the understatement of 2011 thus far or what am I missing here. When has anyone ever conducted a c3 war against you? When has c3 wars ever really posed a real danger of asset loss to you or any group of players? I got it, I got it! When the group of bad asses aren't so bad ass after all. Never has c3 war threatened a peaceful coexisting federation or single player apart from mutual conflict leading to combat. Point blank. You seriously disappoint me bringing up that nonsense again. Not that you'd care though, you've changed so much since joining the dark side. How has that been going for you?

/me vomits on this entire thread again. Enough already. This isn't even an argument or a debate and this doesn't qualify on your parts as novice propaganda. Please just stop it.

aww, wendy.

in regards to joining the "dark side," infact, i'm glad you brought that up

on the "good side," no one wants to war. no one really knows how.

i do find the irony interesting. in regards to my conversion from econ to war. light side to dark side, lol. i originally was rather irritated in the way that sam and def behaved. it was well know at the time that the SC chat was a dangerous place for newbs. they would go their, and a vet, would pick on them until they would react poorly, and of course the vet would punish them.

at the time i believed that sam and def were the main people doing this. although i must interject here to say, that i can only remember def riding diz or jg. when i sat down and had conversations with def, i found that he was a rather reasonable person, and when he explained to me that he never flamed any one that didn't start it or deserve it, (like JG,) i really couldn't think of a case that i'd witnessed where he just start running down some one for no reason. and looking back, i can't really claim that Sam was in the wrong either. maybe he was, maybe not, but i'm satisfied that Sam is a decent enough guy.

that said, when i made my conversion to being a war player, and what eventually led to the dark side, i love that, "Darth Orbiter" haha. anyway... at the time i was good friends with MoP. and he would swear up and down that Def launched into him early on as a newb. When he just entered the chat room. So him and i were both wanting to see def and sam taken down a peg. we both hated the things they did. and wanted to stop them. i decided that i didn't want to just talk about it, i wanted to do something about it. and started preparing myself to.

some where along the line, MoP took exception to this. many things can be said, but the fact is if i'd chosen to remain a peaceful player, i'd have remained in WPU, and eventually merged into WGC and have been on the receiving end of the recent war. rather than on the giving end.

so it was the fact that i no longer wanted to sit back and watch the behavior that was rather, abusive. i ended up selling most my good stuff in WG, and bought a bunch of good countries from TP, on LU. and ended up join CIS. I was personally oppose to LDI at the time. I didn't think VS would take me, and i wasn't aware of SNA, i mistakenly thought Steward would lead me into combat. but he was just another JG, building a large fed that threw its weight around based on its size. if had ever come to it, CIS would have been crushed in a magor war. so still wasn't getting what i was looking for.

CIS eventually did a merge/split, (weird huh?) where most the older, players going to VS, and the younger ones splitting off and joining SNA. Looking back, i would have been better off joining SNA, but i went into VS.

VS, was another fed that would bring in large players, a "who's who of SC," and was in a type of cold war with LDI. and again, i still didn't get the war training i was looking for. I had gone around the block on 2 planets, looking for allies that would teach me how to war, and stand next to me for what i thought was right.

Do you know where i found those allies? i found them on the dark side. Their are many things i've done in sim country, that i regret, Joining LDI, and allying with the (now former,) mob, are not among them.

I'm not alone in this experience. I've encountered many players that for what ever reason, got bored of just econ. and wanting to learn the war game, can't find allies that will actually DO anything, on the light side. I've seen allot of players quite, because they get bored. The thing that would keep them interested... war, is shunned. Any one that wants to war, is AUTOMATICALLY labeled a Warmonger. Many vets have quit because econ, only, does eventually bored most players.

It seems that every time a player quits because some one attacked him, their is public outrage. How ever, the given expectation that war, and every one that enjoys war, is evil... has probably chased of as many, or more players. newbs that would have become valuable players, and long term vets that grew bored of just collecting money.

As far as C3 warriors... that one must have gotten under your skin. but yes, i have fought c3 only wars. As far as i understand it, a good many people have. The difference is that i don't *only,* fight with C3s. Because your extended use of WP... its like fighting a boxing match with one hand tied behind your back, and your feet tied together, because you oppenent has all their stuff in protection, you can't really hit back to cause enough damage to chase them off, not really. I mean you've been doing it for several years.

If EVERY ONE put up war protection, all the time... you'd eventually run out of GC for you wp, and then your empire would start to fall. The fact is, you not only can't stand up against your own tactic, but your to much of a coward to put anything on the line.

Really if a was to attack some one, and take a couple of their good countries. and the put the rest of their stuff in protection and then C3 warred me for a little bit. I'd understand, and deal with it. But their is a limit, where the tactic becomes, well, just plain cheap. I don't really have to after X days or weeks is when it gets old, as you've done it for YEARS. Really, wendy, you are a coward.

lol. I've had my share of losses of good countries. I have had my share of proper wars and c3 wars. It is a tactic that you employed but I am a coward? You just recently started fighting with real countries. Before this era, your last fight was against EO with c3s and a friend who also joined you in this tactic. You also did so presently in the company of the games best and most capable fighters and against an almost defeated enemy. So you are highly misrepresenting the fact that you don't always fight c3 wars.

No one is criticizing you for warring. No one is criticizing you for joining LDI. They aren't anywhere close to how they used to be. The dark side being the joining of capable players in a lopsided battle against asset rich countries only.

When WGC came under attack by you and the mob, they offered to face you in a challenge in a 5 v 5 even, yet you all declined. That isn't cowardly? You are dipshitting the word. Please don't. A poorly contemplated misuse of propaganda again on your part. You then went on after WGC was largely defeated and did exactly what the mob claimed the war wasn't. Raiding of econ and inactive players. In particular MOP. You don't even get to use the word cowardly again period.

War is not bad. It makes the game. But cowardly moves by a group of well versed war players against clearly outclassed opponents is now not cowardly? What is the risk of using good countries in a battle you are sure to win? Is that a challenge? Is that what you call risk. I have seen this history repeat itself throughout simcountry. That is not risk, it is calculated. If you have no real danger of losing, how do you calculate risk? If you had a chance of fighting a losing battle would not many of your mates then declare in your defense? Wouldn't in the end you still conquer more than you could ever lose in a battle or situation that follows that gameplan? Of course you would.

That is calculated not risk.

Anything you accuse me of you have done the same if not worse. How do you really let the word 'coward' roll off your tongue without really weighing your actions vs my own.

Coward? Never. Smarter than you and your masters? Always.

After years of being jumped on by numbers of very good players
After changes directly aimed at me and my style of fighting
After many level 3(or 5) boycotts
After fighting many many many costly wars

and anything else you can think of, I am still here.

Not because I ally myself with tougher players
Not because I am part of a badass fed
Not because I gang up and jump on my enemies with other players
Not because I do the coward shit your clan is well known for

It is easy for you to say what you would do now after you have done x2 what you label me a coward for. Even more hypocritical when now the reason you have fought outside of c3s is because you now stand with the very people you used c3s to fight against. You now do the things you fought against them for.

Yeah, I am a real Coward. What does that make you?

Excuse me. Clearly I overreacted. He didn't really mean to say coward.

aww well wendy, i don't really want to keep derailing this thread that is other wise pretty cool. so enjoy having the last word!!!

That is what they all say.

Wendy, lose the hate.

Lose the hate? Lose the douche....

Was that hateful?

Don't mistake facts for hate Jojo.

I know these are your gfs of late but comon, give it a rest. They can manage on their own. Or not.

I don't think it is hate, Jo Jo. Frustration may be a more apt term for what is being expressed - Frustration over changes that just make the game not worth playing if you like the war game. Honestly, I don't know what was wrong with the way it was and has been played. I don't recall peeps whining about it before. I agree with what someone posted earlier. If you don't want to war or not prepared to defend, buy WP for your countries, or join a federation to support and protect you. It is the way the game has been played for years. I have bought boocoos of WP over the years. Also, I thought there were options in place if someone didn't want to play the war game that would safeguard them against wars. So, why the need for war levels???

Kiss - The war game wasn't working before, that's the point. It had basically been dead since the 3M v NV war broke into all out c3 warfare and everyone discovered that they didn't have to risk their own assets to take from others. W3C decided in response to the Mob v WGC war (mostly) that there needed to be a separation of players because a few of the most skilled war players were able to fairly quickly/easily dismantle the largest and oldest fed in the game. This was a reasonable thought as it had become clear that war wasn't even close to balanced and strength in numbers mattered little, so they attached a limiting system into my idea of c3 levels which was designed to make war more popular and easier to understand, not to limit war between players. I've already said that I went along with that idea reluctantly because I, unlike some others am willing to admit that the way I played the game/decisions I made had a negative impact on the game overall.

I think separating players from fighting against eachother missed the boat because it didn't solve the main issues, information imbalance and rule manipulation. Separating players like me from inexperienced war players doesn't help them, it hurts them. Many of the big war players, especially myself, learned their lessons by getting beat up on by better/more experienced war players. I spent tons of time watching others and studying every piece of information I could in order to avenge my losses and beat those who beat me...that's how people learn. Second, manipulation of WP is the main issue that killed the war game, it became stupid to put any of your assets at risk when people could come along without risking any of their own and take/destroy them while wasting your time.

Anyway Kiss, players like you or Maestro or Super (and many others) have a hard time seeing the problems in the system because you do your best to play the game in your own way while being respectful of others. As you mentioned, you don't want to fight anyone, so you spent a bunch of GC's on WP and you avoided the war game...many others who want to play the game as econ players have done exactly that for a long time now. As a player with quite a bit of experience in the war game, I can say 100% that it was broken and unless the main issues are addressed it will continue to be.

I TRIED TO STAY OUT OF THIS BUT YOU SAY THE WAR GAME WAS ALREADY DEAD BEFORE THE CHANGES.IT WAS A LOT MORE ACTIVE THAN IT IS NOW.AND IF THE WAR GAME IS WHAT YOU REALLY LOVE WHY ARE OTHER PEOPLES ASSETS SO IMPORTANT.JUST PAY TO PLAY AND ENJOY A GOOD C3 FIGHT.
BIGG E

Thanks, Whiteboy, and good to see you. Hope you are doing well.

Despite the fact I didn't war as actively as my other mates, I was kept abreast of the fighting and joined in on several occasions. I just knew that we have always fought with c3s, myself included. While it is frustrating to a certain extent because it was a tit for tat fight and long and drawn out, we did have fun doing it. We did catch countries out of WP. Both sides in the war did, so assets were gained. I am with Bigge, it seems like it is REALLY broken now. :S

While I and others can appreciate all attempts to make the game better, I think the concept of war levels are way too restrictive. It pretty much stops any player's ability to fight another because they may not be at the same level. And if I wanna lodge a "shoe" lol at you, Whiteboy, by golly I don't want a war level prohibiting me from doing so! (winks)

In my opinion, if certain players are being bullies in war, then other players should band together to take care of the problem - the way 'a--hats' and bullies have always been dealt with in the past.

Perhaps the solution is as simple as banning WP on a world all together, except for the choice to have it on 1 country, your main. Then players would have to make their other countries defendable and war ready, and let the chips fall as they may. It would be up to federation members to support and back their own - especially the newer players until they can build up and learn the game. Federations should help their own rebuild if losses are incurred. I think too many players are too self serving and not willing to risk anything.

For now, it appears the majority is speaking and the current method of the war game is NOT good, and I think GMs should reevaluate and come up with an alternative method that is more attractive to those who enjoy the war aspect of the game.

I hope that it gets resolved soon so I can come back in a few months and start lodging shoes. I gotta list, you know! (winks) ha ha ha ha

Hugs to All and Happy New Year!
Jan

A total of 28 players on this thread.

Would be nice to hear from Tommi.

maybe he's to busy

New Security Council Member
Tom Willard is a dedicated President of Tommi. The president accepted the membership for a period of 182 months.

sounds to me like he's been a bit busy

Is the war game 'more dead' now than it was before, sure. Is 'more dead' really saying much? I don't think so. There were maybe 10 active participants in the war game before the changes and 9 out of the 10 were friends with each other. My thought was if we broke the group up it may result in those players dispersing, which kind of happened at first but ultimately...you'll see they're all pretty much still together...because they're the only people that are still willing to fight wars and they're hopeful that it can be revived. Either way, the war game was/is/will be dead until the problems I've pointed out can be dealt with.

People (in general, not 10) aren't going to participate in the war game until the informational advantage is minimized and they aren't going to participate when they have to risk their assets while others can torment them without risking any of their own. The peak of the war game under those circumstances will be exactly what it was, everyone in WP waiting for others to let their WP slip. That isn't a war game, it's sniping for buffalo.

I'm sure Tom is waiting for a solution before he jumps in, they have a lot of time, effort and money invested in a solution that was supposed benefit many players. The simplest solution is what has already been suggested, leave the c3 war levels without any restrictions so that players can use them to use the war game and have incentive to do so (to solve some of the informational advantage) and then make WP all or nothing, either all countries are in WP or none are. WP was designed to protect your countries when you're away or not able to fight or don't want to, that change wouldn't deny any of those and would stop the manipulation.

Oh, as far as assets go, c3 warfare is about 2 things and 2 things only, taking assets from others without risking yours or screwing up others assets without risking any of yours. Either way, C3 warfare is all about assets.

The wisdom and Foresight of this kid....amazing.

If we used the example of his last tidbits of wisdom in action... surely Nostradamus was more accurate with his vague predictions.

What happened to this solution of yours

fixing the war game?
encouraging federation growth?
or restoring simcountry to its' former glory?

None of them happened. Was this just a mere coincidence?

C3 warfare is all about assets? Lets agree to agree on that. But isn't all war about assets? Surely gang banging of lesser players, and the consolidation of a majority of well versed war players both were about assets too?

Tell me child, how was grouping the better versed war players under one banner supposed to encourage competition in the war game? Really? You were part of this grouping.

Is fixing the war game what you really wanted? Doubtful. More likely, you wanted to form a coalition to feel important and respected, a silly ambition you admitted to me in chat one day.

We have compared gangbang, vs c3 wars and at worst both are about assets. One is about taking and one is about destroying.

Be logical and inform us child, when has a c3 war gained a sizable amount of assets from an active player?

Be logical and honest and tell us child, when has a group of vets really put something up for risk?

Be logical and honest and tell us child, while you claimed you wanted a challenge from WGC, which part of that engagement was challenging?

Was it the part where you had to actually deny yourself the challenge that WGC offered you when they offered a 5 vs 5 instead of an all out war? Or was it a challenge to try and lie your way out of looking bad on a pure asset raid? Even still maybe it was challenging to give some members their country back?

I don't but know the facts remain months later and looking back everyone would agree that you certainly declined true true challenge you claimed to seek. You had some hollow excuse. But it was never a challenge you wanted. Your actions proved that. Assets you surely did gain despite what was promised or delivered in return to WGC.

Your words are nothing. You don't have some hour glass that you and only you can predict to the letter the outcome of your ridiculous claims or the effects that hap hazard proposals will have on any part of the game.

Why should W3C give your silly ass the time of the day after all the negative feedback on your 'ideas'.

War levels were the simple solution months ago. The rest of the game has suffered the stupidity of it. Now you come back and claim to have another simple solution while everyone has had to endure the fruits of your last bright idea.

I still pass. So should everyone else. You don't know shit. You won't ever know shit. You are just some dipshit kid with his head so far up his ass you could never realize for even a second that you are dead wrong. Before and even more so now.

sigh

At least we think alike.

Well as i was saying before.. war levels make it hard.. hard to fight.. and hard to teach. While i was in my fed we learned to fight by fighting our fed mates. Its imposible to do that now, unless the new guy in the fed levels up to you and at the same time makes him/her the same level you are which makes them vulnerable to attack. I was in the last big thread on this and was shot down by the GM saying i was off topic.. in that thread all i was saying was that if it could be posible to be able to auto dec against a fellow fed mates attack instead off sitting there seeing a fed mate get destroyed while defenseless cause you didn't dec in time. I myself thought it was on topic. Sorry GM.

A good suggestion is this.. and was thinking this about this for a long time and added my ideas to others on this thread. Make it so lvl 3 and below are "econ" lvls they are also the free levels right now.. no one can be attacked.. c3's only.

Make more levels.. say to 10.. and more benifit. currently 7 is what.. 15T.. MAKE IT WORTH IT TO GO TO 10...30T !!

But.. go beyond 3.. your risking it. you can be attacked from anyone.. from level 1-10(paying members only).. and for the attacker.. if you are a lower level..if you dec (free players can not do this, cannot dec a paying member) you go to his/her level and are now vulnerable to attack from anyone also, and brings into play your fedmates(paying members only) auto decs (which would be exempt from leveling up as your only defending you're fed) As a fed member.. your do not need to do this.. as with the current setup of defending you empire.. its your choice to defend the fed or not. Being new to SC you would choose not.. but the more advance players could..


Also.. make WP way more expencive(triple?).. im going away for 10 days soon and gladly pay the cost to defend my empire if being above lvl 3( my choice right?)

Well.. its only a suggestion. Hopefully we can come to some sort of consensus on this to pique the gm's interest and hopefully have the GM respond...

What is the status on this?