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Forum Little Upsilon NLUO- An Isolationist's POV

NLUO- An Isolationist's POV

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Carthaginian0
27 Nov 2012 03:03 Link
[this thread is meant to attract those still undecided or on the fence about the NLUO to it, as well as express one Isolationist's point of view]

Comrades,

First, let me say welcome to the NLUO, the recently established government seeking legitimacy on a world stage. I myself am a new member, as are nearly all of us, and therefore I take it upon myself to help promote political alignments, and obviously I plan on promoting my own.

Let me begin by stating a simple fact- in a short period of existence, it had become evident to me that the Expansionist Party is indeed expanding. Before you jump on board with the War Mongrels (as I endearingly have begun to call them) consider just how they will effect the chances at (1) establishing the NLUO as a legitimate world governing body; and (2) how they will manage to [or fail to] maintain control of the world once it has been established as the government.

Generally, war is not the answer. We have seen this time and time again on Planet Earth, where countless thousands of people lost their lives in a war that should never have been fought at all. This exists on Earth, and it exists that way on Little Upsilon as well.

A trigger happy government is never effective. Making enemies is not something that can be considered healthy for any government, particularly one of small significance, as we are now. If we hope to gain change, to truly reform LU into a united world, then a trigger happy government is the antithesis of what we need.

When war is regularly instituted as the means of settling a dispute, many problems arise. All humans know this simple truth. If we completely ignore the economic side of war, the side that ruins the economy of all parties involved, both directly and indirectly, for years to come, making it all but impossible to pick up the pieces; and if we completely IGNORE the foreign policy nightmares that will ensue from us attacking the ally of another nation not associated with the NLUO, causing another nation to be ignited with fury against our organization; and if we completely IGNORE the chasm that such action will cause between the NLUO itself, when nearly half of the participating members disagree with the notion of attacking a country simply because they refuse to acknowledge us as the governing body of Little Upsilon; and if we completely IGNORE the idea of all this happening on a mass scale, with country upon country condemning our still small government, then I guess the Expansionists could govern well.

The War Mongrels seem keen on ignoring such facts- they seek only the immediate glory of winning wars in the name of democracy, as well as fantasizing about maintaining strong economy during such conquests. I challenge anyone to provide an example of when a war has ever had an outcome that was entirely positive- was it when neither economy suffered, no ill will was harbored, everything was just hunky-dory? No! Never once has a nation remained at the same economic point they were at prior to a war, much less experienced GROWTH. By engaging in ceaseless war- which is what indeed shall happen should a vicious cycle of Expansionists hold the majority- we deprive ourselves first and foremost of peace, but also of economic prosperity, of legitimacy, and of allies. I do not know a single sane person who would indeed sacrifice such things in order to have glory for a fleeting moment.

Quite purposefully, the Isolationist Party (we are waiting for a name from our Expansionist friends :P) is based on a conflicting philosophy. We purport that in order to govern a country, a region, a continent, and especially an ENTIRE WORLD that economic focus is in fact our primary goal. 

Creating economic growth is not easy. Bear and bull markets cause stocks to fluctuate, and inflation/deflation can cause unhealthy price changes if not managed correctly. However, working with a legislature full of wise leaders, already on their way to individual economic prosperity, we can certainly weather the storms as they come, and hopefully prevent many from forming. 

Economic growth has two main reactions: first and foremost, nations will indeed see that we are PEACEFULLY fostering a safe environment for nations to thrive. This in turn will lead to a recognition as a true force in the world meant to help all nations, not just those currently in the NLUO. Of course, by having that recognition, we gain legitimacy on the world stage and can properly institute policies throughout LU.

Of course, the WvE debate is not the only divisive issue; there are many more, and I intend to touch on a select few. 

Of all the issues that divide us, perhaps the most overlooked is that of secession. What? Secession, you ask? Yes, I say, and even more so, the Oath of the NLUO, which I believe to be extremely partisan.

The current Secretary General, Hezekiah, who has reorganized the NLUO, also identifies as a War Mongrel. That is all well and good; however, his Oath for the NLUO is certainly not. While Hezekiah has done well keeping the majority of the logs and descriptions from being partisan, this is indeed his one downfall.

The oath states that we are to "maintain [the NLUO's] growth by any means necessary!" which I would say is missing the point of government completely. I contend that as free and independent NATIONS, we do not sacrifice our nation's sovereignty simply because a worldwide government asks us to. We are not states, but countries, and if we are capable of joining the NLUO, then shouldn't we be capable of leaving it? The nations of the NLUO give the NLUO power, not the other way around. Countries are to join NOT out of fear and oppression, but rather on their own volition, seeing it as a promise of an easier, peaceful world. This too is a reason that war is not to be thrown about crazily, as if we were bloodthirsty barbarians.

The Isolationists, and I believe I speak for us all, do not stand behind such decrees, as the role of a government is to govern, not to usurp power from any and all nations it can. Any nation that has not declared hostilities towards the NLUO is not a threat, but a potential member, and should be treated as such, rather than punished for simply being outside of the government. We want to attract new members by being a government who betters the world, not an oppressive force who creates enemies.

Lastly, I choose to briefly address the issue of Executive Orders. They do indeed have a place, but encouraging them to be exercised is a folly that could lead to our downfall. There is always a need for EOs in any government, and they should be provided for in the formation of such entities, however, placing that much power in the hands of one individual can be a grave danger. While I would say many would be judicious with such power, there are those who could very well abuse it, and encouraging EOs which override the democratic process is not a viable solution. We cannot hold those in high offices accountable if they have the power to override all of our decisions on a whim.

Now I close with a simple statement: this speech that I give I took great pains to avoid attacking the Expansionists, as we are not a hostile government incapable of bipartisan agreements. However, there may in fact have been times I came off as sharp towards their policies and philosophies, and for that I apologize. The purpose of this speech was to attract those undecided on party affiliation to the Isolationist Party, and so that they and others could understand (from a partisan view, I concede) the intentions of each party.

On behalf of Carthage, my country, I have joined the NLUO, in order to better my individual nation. I expect others have and will do the same.

God Bless,
Carthaginian
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Crafty
27 Nov 2012 03:19 Link
Has everyone forgot that this is a game?

It was a really good one, much fun, and strategy too. War and peace was a major part of it.
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Carthaginian0
27 Nov 2012 03:29 Link
Part of the game is roleplaying as governments. I am having fun.
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Crafty
27 Nov 2012 03:38 Link
Great. It sounded like you were being just a bit too serious about it. Rock on.
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Gaz
27 Nov 2012 03:51 Link
Nice speach. But how can you play as isolationist in the NLUO when the very nature of it seems to be interventionalst?

It's the war Mongrels as you call them that will give your organization weight. Let's face it, why would any country listen to you's if you have nothing to back up your words?
K
King Hezekiah II
27 Nov 2012 05:08 Link
Wow. This Isolationist thinks he has all the answers, as most of them think they do. Promoting strong military presence within the federations, and having nations know that if they step out of line, the NLUO has the capabilities to pass legislation for war. Wars are fought to show the superiority of the nations or federations who fight them. If this government can not wage war on a nation who is aggressive towards the NLUO world government, then there is no reason for the government to exist. Hard Power always works better than soft power in instances of aggression. Now these Isolationists would have you believe that using soft power all the time will help stop wars, when in fact it will start wars because nobody will think twice about even going to war and the diplomatic process would have to start. War mongers, yeah right Iso.
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SweetPea
27 Nov 2012 05:56 Link
I'm thinking that if more powerful players participated as a representative of their secured country's region(not representative or proxy of NLUO) then I think it is a good alternative to an impotent security council.

It would also create debate between players involved and allow for promotion and cooperation to stimulate player interaction.

The short-sightedness about not having any muscle is invalid. Even if Hezekiah and 5 other players had the largest and best armies, they would still be at the mercy of the community.

NLUO is about promoting COMMUNITY, not military might. A collective cooperation could lead to a formidable military force even in the absence of super armies. The collective contribution to a particular undertaking could quickly eclipse even the hardest war players.

Somehow, it strikes me as odd that more people who have stayed through this rough patch have not taken the opportunity to participate. You don't have to join NLUO. At the very least just represent yourself on King's platform. Be your own ambassador to the NLUO and their members and perhaps one day you will join, or just represent your Empire.
K
King Hezekiah II
27 Nov 2012 06:02 Link
I am speechless Wendy. You have shut my mouth.
K
King Hezekiah II
27 Nov 2012 06:35 Link
Some parts of your speech I do agree with. Such as the part about the EOs. I agree that EOs should not be arbitrarily used. In the hands of an inexperienced Secretary General can be dangerous. I for one would like to set up legislation to have the constitution amended when it comes to EOs. The Secretary of Justice would generally check this power along with the LUICC. It would probably depend on what party the SOJ would be apart of. Another part I would not mind coming across the Isle to negotiate is the oath. We as a party don't want to be seen as blood thirsty barbarians because it is not good for our image to say the least. So.. those things I agree, but the over ideology of the Isolationists is flawed to say the least, with their party for the nations and growth propaganda. Let them get in power, and see how this government becomes a none relevance.
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Carthaginian0
03 Dec 2012 02:35 Link
Now that TE government is fully operational, I will address all the posts in the coming days.
K
King Herod VI
05 Dec 2012 01:02 Link
The Isolationists ideology is the ideology of any descent God fearing man. It is you wild beasts, the Expansionists that give this government a bad name. You all make the government as a brand, like haliburton, or even Blackwater. You continue your propaganda campaign. Consider this my coming out party Hezekiah. Viva La Isolationists!!!
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Mr T
06 Dec 2012 05:52 Link
quite the partisan operation you guys got......you asked when. has war helped the economy Carthaginian well ww2 arguably lifted the world out of the great depression although some attribute it to the manufacturing of the toaster
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Mr T
06 Dec 2012 05:56 Link
just wondering how many nations are in this world order that has been established
K
King Hezekiah II
06 Dec 2012 08:40 Link
25 Mr T.
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SweetPea
06 Dec 2012 13:21 Link
In short please, can anyone explain the main principles behind these two ideas.

Expansionist
Isolationists

And are there any other political factions so far?
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Carthaginian0
06 Dec 2012 16:11 Link
SweetPea,

Basically Isolationists focus on the economic growth of nations to attract members and keep order while the Expansionists use the war game.
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SweetPea
06 Dec 2012 16:16 Link
Now that explanation is really interesting while applied to the game. Very nice. It pretty much sums up how this game is played.


I guess I would be classified as an expansionist then huh? As far as I am concerned, when I apply how I actually play the game, I would have to say I am an Isolationist.

• I don't generally tag up with players and large feds to fight wars.

• I find too many participants to be an added liability.

• I especially value OPSEC, which has become very important for some not so obvious reasons.

• Too many participants add too many variables into the equation.
K
King Hezekiah II
06 Dec 2012 17:45 Link
SO this is where you can find the econ nerds. minus Wendy of course.
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SweetPea
07 Dec 2012 00:50 Link
I'm actually quite the econ nerd :) in real life that is, and I do pretty well here in sim too. Even though I put on a mask of simpleness.

Let me add an EDIT to offer some econ nerd calls.

Fannie Mae, common stock is about 27-/+ cents as I type this.

Thanks to the FED buying up Mortgage backed Securities for an indefinite period to support the housing recovery, this stock is at a premium bottom. 20Cents is a strong psychological level and the 2012 low. Before the crash that exposed the housing bubble, this stock was a mind-frakking 65.00USD.

Even if this stock tanked to 10 cents or lower, just owning a significant volume of this stock, could literally retire you when it returns.

With the feds actions and stated intent to prop up the housing market until a more organic recovery reveals itself, this stock, is a once in a lifetime opportunity. The kind that only come with a recession/depression like this one.

For example, I am going to invest around $13,500 over the next few months buying any dips below the current market price until I have 50,000 hares of this common stock.

If this even returned to 10.00 in the next decade or more, it would be the single best investment I have ever made or could make if you define risk to reward.

At 50,000 shares times 10 bucks is a half a million bucks or $500,000.00.

Even if it only visits the 0.68 level(the 2011 high with almost no housing recovery in sight)that is nearly triple my return.

Lets see how I do with that one. I'm holding for 10.00 Bucks as a selling target. Might even keep 10,000 shares and wait for it to go higher.

This is all a big risk, but I cannot think of a better way to risk my money to get such a healthy reward.

Something to think about.
K
King Hezekiah II
07 Dec 2012 05:11 Link
Sounds like a hedge fund... lol...
A
Aug Uste
18 Dec 2012 10:28 Link
um... what is NLUO?
M
Mizore
18 Dec 2012 10:50 Link
It's a type of watercraft.
K
King Hezekiah II
18 Dec 2012 18:59 Link
Aug Uste. If you read around the forums, you will find out what the NLUO is.
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shave
18 Dec 2012 23:03 Link
i would be curious? what is in place to enforce protocol within the alliance as a whole. after all, it would seem you all disagree on alot of things. well, lets say the isolationists are voted into power? what will enforce the legislature that will no doubt come into play as a result of their ideology. if all the military power exists on the expansionist side, i would wonder, will anyone be willing to stand on the side of the isolationists to enforce the rule of law? in essence would there be an expansionist willing to stand against his or her own party for the sake of the NLUO as a whole?

:)
S
shave
18 Dec 2012 23:20 Link
let me be a little more clear about what I am getting at. I am not an Isolationist, at least not completely anyway, in that I believe that there is a time to fight for a just cause. I also do believe in the importance of an international community that works together to create a free and sustainable world for all. I believe in the rule of Law, to where it does not infringe upon the freedom of others to live their own lives, and their right to protect themselves and their interests. however, It must also protect the lives and interests of its own commonalities. that being said, I believe their is something called universal Justice. pertaining to things such as Genocide, environmental instability, the inhumane treatment and oppression of other human beings. things that can not go unchecked and unhindered. things that are bad for everyone universally. this would require on some level a peace keeping force, or a global military of sorts. this is exceptable. however!!!! at the very heart of it all, must be a democratically elected government that is chosen by the people, and for the people. a representative of ALL the people. and thereby an opportunity to elect someone into power that represents all of the viewpoints of it's people.there must be a written and judicially backed legislative content or Law if you will, that all the people including the government must abide by, or face prosecution and impeachment in some cases. it can not be a situation where so many grey area's exist, and someone sits upon a throne of sorts, having access to his or her own army to command at whim. in limiting the amount of parties, you effectively block the ability for the whole of the body to grow democratically and morally as its people may take it. by limiting the system to 2 ideologies you force the other voices to be silenced. and thereby it is no longer a truly free endeavor. and that wouldn't work for me.....just some food for thought.

and yes Ms. Wendy , b4 you say it. I know! it makes no sense! lol Cheers!

wasnt sure where to post this. lol