When will supply exploit be fixed? (Golden Rainbow)

So if I understand you correctly your complaining because he does something that almost every economic player does?

Is this a specific dig at Q after he arranged boycotts against you, following your decision to threaten a fellow fed member?

And while you're here, why did you message me and demand that I don't bid on C3 corps that you have placed a bid on?

Do you have sole rights to place bids on C3 corps?

Greetings Mr. FredMark of Golden Rainbow.
I ask that you read several other post on these forums so that you can be enlightened to the fact that the Gamemaster is working hard to fix real problems that He has seen. Now with that being said let me ask you a question, "What should you do if somebody falls down?"
I will not go on to list out all the real problems the Gamemaster is working on, but I will tell you this much one of the biggest priotities is on solving the shortages. Like for example in almost every country there are no trains available to haul the products to market. Yet ther are miles upon miles of traintracks. Of course even the shortage of trains has a lower priority than the shortage of certain weapons and ammo. So if you are really worried about this problem you might want to answer the call that Mr. Willard has issued to all sim players-- Build 5 ammo corporations in each of your countries, and CEOs. -- I also recomand that you begin to build some train corporations as well.
Finally, if you see another player using an agressive business practice try to see how that player is doing it and maybe repeat it. You never know you may just reap higher profits.

Good work Mr. Q. I am glad to see that you did not give in to this player's demands. I would say you should run your countries and CEO s the way that you see fit.

Live Long and Prosper
High Profits to all
Nute Gunray

It's not an exploit, you incredible fucktard, Fredmark.


Jesus Christ, grow some fucking balls and learn how to counter his economic warfare, or build corps in another sector and ignore it. You are a worthless waste of bandwidth for trying to get people to do your dirty work for you.

Perhaps you'd like to post threads about this and myself in the LU section?

1.) Deal with the fact that certain players actually vie for market share in market
2.) if you don't like it, then compete with those players, or GTFO
3.) ??????
4.) PROFIT!!!


But your whining and bitching it counter-productive. It's like you WANT the gamemasters to destroy yet another aspect of the game so everyone can hold hands and care-bear along.

This is an official notice that you'd better keep within a secured main or war protection on LU for your asshattery.

he hath neither wit nor word yet insists on saying nothing at great length badly

Good post FredMark. Continue to use your freedom of speech on this forum. You have my support.

I am surprised to learn that some veteran players asked you not to publish your explanation of the "supply-exploit".

I would not call it an exploit. It is just an undocumented, unlogical feature of the game. The question remains if it is unfair to use this "property" of the games-economy. We can't blame Q for bringing it to extreme levels.

I do fully agree with your first statement:
This "feature" should clearly be stated in documentation as a game feature (or fixed).

I did not bother to look into Q's enterprise, but i assume he/she is specializing in Gasoline. That can give huge profits, but specializing is risky too. When lots of others copy the strategy, or when the game-rules are tweaked, you end up with lots of debts.

BTW, somewhere in the game-documentation you can read the advise to new players, to look into the bussines of succesfull players, to learn how they do it.

<!-Quote-!>Quote:

Good post FredMark. Continue to use your freedom of speech on this forum. You have my support.<!-/Quote-!>

Sounds like envy and sour grapes to me.

I am just wondering if he has such a clear grasp of this unlimited profit potential, why isn't he just doing it in his own corps? Especially in this economic climate.

It's maybe undocumented but it certainly isn't illogical, and it is no more a game feature than telling you how to IPO or balance your workers etc or many other facets.

You play, take your chances and live and learn!

I'm just going to respond with a few simple things.


1) I figured it out on my own, no veteran player told me of it. I was not aware it was more common knowledge among vets until about a month later.

2) There are many players who use this, not just me.

3) It has been around for years.

4) It takes a considerable amount of time to set up, and takes considerable time and effort to maintain.

5) With the market price cap of 290-297% in place, the savings from this is LESS than what fredmark describes.

6) If Gasoline or Aircraft fuel prices fall below about 120% of market price, I lose money per corp just like everyone else. Currently, none of my gasoline or aircraft fuel corps are profitable on Golden Rainbow. Gasoline and Aircraft Fuel are VERY high risk, if the price falls too much, you're losing a ton of money each month. Right now, I'm losing a ton of money on each of those corps.

7) If this was endless money or profit potential as Fredmark describes it, I would be building nothing but these corps. A look at my slave countries shows, that this is not the case. I have plenty of Oil, Medical Materials, Electric Power, FMU, etc. elsewhere. I would say there's a good reason for that.

8) Fredmark, how does ANY of this personally affect you?

9) Your chart is outdated. FMU, Aircraft Fuel, and Gasoline production, are all lower than what your chart has.

10) I picked gasoline/aircraft fuel to specialize in BEFORE I figured anything like this out.

11) Why do I have to follow YOUR rules as to what I can or can't do in this game? Why is it up to YOU, a relatively new player? Nute is right, I should not have to give into your demands.

and 12) Raw material cost/savings is not the only factor in what corporations to build. Demand, salaries, etc. play an important role.


I hope this clears up some confusion.

Q

"It's like you WANT the gamemasters to destroy yet another aspect of the game so everyone can hold hands and care-bear along. " well said wild!

any one feel like preemptively holding hands?


With Regards,
Dragoon

There is no confusion Q, just an ego trip on his part.

if he looks at my stuff he will find somethin else he doesn't know!

You know guys, it is rather interesting.

First of all, why would you not be discussing exploit by itself. Whatever you think about my motivations, I believe it besides the point.
Why would we discuss instead if such 'feature' is ultimately helping the game or hurting it. It is my believe it is hurting it and it makes no sense. If yours is that is helping it, please explain why.

As far as whining concern, I am not the one who is whining.
I actually do not see why Tom Willard changes all that bad at all, nor I see the flaw in his logic (most part, anyway).
Lets check reality:
As it stands right now, I simulated that broad spectrum corp enterprise equally invested (225/225) on C3 (41% resource used, 30% tax) is destined to make much over 10% profit on turnover, with maybe exception of White Giant, but even there it still be profitable.
I also like to mention you are given 30%!!! (can I close my 401K and invest for half that?) with guaranteed repayment on loans.
As I stated before, it appears gamemasters provide components shortfall and buying off surplus.
On top of that, that are buying and selling cash off the market and created effective 2.75T per 1 mil pop cap that is important for new players.

I do understand that changes are painful, but is a game after all. Think about new tweaking as a new set of challenges you need to overcome, that I assume you are playing game for.

And if you guys do not see it is an exploit, why do you worry at all? It is either one way or another.

Finally:
I never understood such animosity towards me, I am just a messenger. And as I mentioned before most people were reasonable, WildEyes was not the one who was.
And I heard that message loud and clear first time two weeks ago, thats why I am not expanding.
So, there are couple of things I would say for the matter:
1. Threats typically do not provide long-term benefit, as it calling names.
2. It is not the only game (as much I enjoy it). If it is come to it I would not be miserable as WildEyes (Petra Arkanian) suggested to me two weeks ago, I would rather pursue other interests. As any sane person would do.

So I suggest let us come to the subject and concentrate on substance.

PS. There is an obvios type in my first post, it should be read 3 components QL300 and 3 components QL100 to give you average of QL200

I explained to you in detail why I do not like you.

You do not fight your own battles. There are correct ways to do things and incorrect ones. Because you don't like how Q runs his economy you want the GMs to close off his ability to run it in the manner he does. This would be the same as someone not liking the ability to use long range missile attacks asking the GM to remove conventional missiles. Same principle. Fight your own fucking wars.

You are too dense to understand where the animosity is coming from.

Would you like the GMs to remove the ability for someone to tax their own CEO corps 75% as well?


What exactly would you like to discuss about this feature? The fact that you can do it with any and all corps? How is it hurting game play? All it does is save players cost - that is helping gameplay, not hurting it. It's the same as switching over to fixed quality instead of buying 'any quality,' albeit more refined and advanced.

You're just butthurt because 1. Q was mean to you, and 2. you can't cope with his aggressive economic tactics, such as spiking and dumping the market to remove competition. Guess what? That's part of the game. You can do it with any market sector, it's called economic warfare. DGoE did it for months and months on LU and all the experienced players knew not to invest too heavily in those markets because their corps would get burned.

So, in short:

Get over your butthurt, then, either do something about Quax and his economic tactics on YOUR OWN, or promptly GTFO.

you're wasting your time Petra

Fredmark, I ask again, how is any of what you posted HARMING YOU?

Why single ME out when there are many others doing the exact same thing? I can think of at least 2 dozen off the top of my head.


If I recall correctly, you threatened me with war if I didn't stop doing something YOU did not like.

Why is MY doing of so much interest to YOU?

You're doing a good job of making others upset. Petra is NOT someone you want to upset. Trust me on this.


Your sole purpose on these forums, from what I have seen, is to try to accuse "me" of abusing what YOU consider an "exploit". Why don't you find something more useful to do with your time, rather than try to sabotage me?


If the GM changes how that works, then fine, I will adapt. It saves me the time of having to maintain and set it up. If they leave it as is, then I will continue to run my corporations the way I see fit. I don't need YOU to tell me what is right or wrong.


If you don't like me, that's fine, you don't have to. Doesn't mean you have to single me out, for something which others do too, and which is not an exploit.

And for the record, I had NO problems with fredmark until he posted threatening me, here and in our federation forum.


By the way, that 30% interest on loans is a REAL LIFE YEAR worth of interest. The actual interest in-game is paltry.


And fredmark, in a way, you're getting your wish. They have increased twice now, the workers used for gasoline/aircraft fuel corps, and I suspect this will continue. Soon, gasoline/aircraft fuel will not be profitable at all, due to too high of expenses. When/if this occurs, I will adapt by switching to some other corporation(s). A large pain, but I will have to deal with it when/if the time comes. It should not concern YOU though, what happens to ME.


Try minding your own business, fredmark, might help you.

Q

"I also like to mention you are given 30%!!! (can I close my 401K and invest for half that?) with guaranteed repayment on loans. "


LMAO! I can't believe I missed that.

Fredmark, you are a dunce. The actual in game interest, on a loan carried to term, is something like 1/16% (in game). Not even enough to make it worth giving loans, because odds are you'll start reaping financial fees which will negate the meager interest you collected.

A while ago, it used to be 180%, or, as it was previously displayed, 1% per game year.... loans in SC have always been much lower than RL equivalents. But, W3, in their wisdom, decided to display interest in RL years rather than game years. That is why there is this ridiculous rate.

About loans

I am not sure why it is at all important to calculate loans in terms of game years.
And it is clearly understandable why W3C would do financial services:

As far as they are paying USD for coins, game cash is convertible to real life money, so would it's interest. For that matter, I can buy some coins convert it into cash and lend out (and convert profits back).
1% per game year would be 6% per day on LU. They tied interest to real life year for the reason, and side benefit that you can't profit much from time scale difference between LU and WG.

I know it seems to you that any real (effort-substantiated) gain can not be achieved in meaningful terms that way. But you are wrong as world of micro-financing teaches us. Similarly to 3rd world countries' "gold farmers" who collect and sell MMORPG's cash on e-bay, it may create an attractive option even at 30% (probably half realistically) generating extra $10 per month of income (for example).

And if allowed at greater scale, I would not know anyone right now who would not be happy with 2-4% return on their bonds (risk adjusted).

All those guys effort to de-inflate cash is to make this game not attractive to "players" that participate for a reason of converting coins into USD. And, as such, is not only understandable, but should be supported by people who play game for the reason of playing.

Fredmark, you can only convert $25/month into USD, and that's only if you can amass 500 coins/month.

Even Laguna or Treasurer (now Jason) do not have enough cash out in loans to make anywhere near that kind of money (and they have the most by far).

And that would be 0.5% per day on LU, not 6%.

Greetings Petra Arkanian of Kebir Blue, I think i would like to get in on the action against Mr. FredMark of Golden Rainbow. I think it would be real fun to watch his factories melt when the cloud of fallout transverses his countries. Then he might think twice as he sees his profit dip and he has to go into debt. It would be real cool to see my neighbor Mr. Q fire like 20 or 30 nuclear missiles at this Mr. FredMark of Golden Rainbow. How about it Mr. Q shall we nuke Mr. FredMark of Golden Rainbow to teach him to mind his own business???


Mr. FredMark of Golden Rainbow why do not you address the more important issues of the shortage of products?? Come on build 5 ammo corps like Mr. Willard has requested. By the way remember to build several factories that make trains. We need more trains to keep all these products going to market.

High Profits to All even Mr. FredMark of Golden Rainbow

Nute Gunray

Q you are right, it would be 0.5%, but I stated $10 in my example and was aware of $25 limit.

Nute, as I mentioned earlier you can't really nuke me directly. You can nuke my neighbors and damage me by fallout if you wish. And I produce enough missiles (who would not at +80% price premium and 400% shortfall?). I suggest you look at missiles and follow excellent advise building more missile corps.

don't see any premium prices

Coolwind,

By Price premium I mean difference between market and base price.
W3C implemented pricing and price stability rather brilliantly.
In any rate, without going to exhaustive detail, price variates between approx -25% and +85% to base.
So, when you invested into missile interceptors with no exploit on GR today, you will be actually making more money then with gasoline and exploit.
Needless to say, if you invested in missiles and using exploit, you will be making even more.
In addition, when I say gasoline is 18% price advantageous, I mean you making the same amount of money off gasoline price level 0 as you would with missiles at price level 18% (with no exploit used on both sides).
However Q is right, looks like W3C finally recognized that salary levels of high-volumetric products are the same as low volumetric and adjusting it (or doing something with salaries for that matter - I did only spot-check).
Hope it helps