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Forum General State corps: how good are you at it?

State corps: how good are you at it?

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sbroccoli
02 Oct 2012 15:51 Link
Just out of interest and to know what to strive for: what's the highest, continuos profit you have achieved in a state corporation? (recent examples, please)
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Crafty
02 Oct 2012 19:42 Link
1.4 - 1.5 B/Mnth
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Alexandrov Stolin
03 Oct 2012 03:57 Link
WHAT!! HOW
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SuperSoldierRCP
03 Oct 2012 04:05 Link
Before welfare/salaries updates i ran 1100-1200 salaries/151% production and made just about 2B a month
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Drew
03 Oct 2012 06:27 Link
Supersoldier I've been recently told running those salaries will make your government costs increase for some weird undisclosed reason. But I'd say my best one atm is 420M at 1000 salary or 750M at 680 salary. As the contribution high salaries make to government expenses are immensely valueable I decided to include them
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sbroccoli
03 Oct 2012 11:01 Link
It's not undisclosed AFAIK. GOvernment salaries are supposed to be no less than half the average worker salaries.

But thanks for the various answers.

I'm actually a bit surprised that the best results aren't higher! I'm still upgrading all my companies and salaries are somewhat low, so I was hoping the potential profit with everything optimised would be much higher.

At the present time my corps make about 0.3 B in profit in average. Only one of the 27 runs a deficit (you guessed it: defense industry ftl!)
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SuperSoldierRCP
03 Oct 2012 12:22 Link
I run 300 best income ATM.

550 is the max. 1000+ used to be profitable but the GM said it wasn't realistic, not that SC has ever been based on realisum
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Crafty
03 Oct 2012 13:27 Link
275 - 300 yes. But as Drew says, there are other advantages of higher salaries such as income tax, contributions to IFs etc, more payment to health and ed and so on.

There's only a few corp types I can make pay over 1B/month regularly.
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Mizore
09 Oct 2012 17:41 Link
Pretty sure IF contributions mean shit since they divided the IF interest by twelve. I think it would take you like 17 real years or something to recoup each dollar that goes into the investment fund.
Pension contributions mean nothing as well since they capped that at $10T.

So last I checked, tax income and health/edu contributions accounted for maybe half of salaries. Figure it could be anything now.

I don't remember any math terms, but the point where the (increase in corp salary + increase in govt salary - increase in tax/contributions - increase in corp profit) equals zero is the point where you want to stop increasing salaries... before then you want to continue increasing salaries. Moral of the story is that there is one perfect salary level for any corporation.

(EDITED)
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Crafty
09 Oct 2012 17:59 Link
Hmmm, doesn't a higher contribution to the IF mean it has more cash it can lend to the world bank to get a higher interest payment, or more cash to use on buying/selling shares for a profit.

Pensions, yep, no effect on anything. I presume they will mean something eventually.

PS. wasn't mizore one of Darkekatts pseudonyms scarlet? Or have I got myself confused there.
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Lorelei
09 Oct 2012 18:54 Link
Yes, it is our beloved Kat. Hey girl!

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Lorelei
09 Oct 2012 22:05 Link
Oh, and relative to the topic, I'm awesome at it.
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MantoArms
10 Oct 2012 00:20 Link
My best corporation -Grandmas Bread- is running at -
income 2,792.53M SC$ / cost 1,696.23M SC$

My salaries at- 250
Welfare index - 98
Quality and Effectivity -200

Havnt been playing for long so i am no expert .

Beginners Income Booster 20,116.67M SC$
Profit / Shortage 19,478.52M SC$

So im still not running at a profit yet .
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Mizore
10 Oct 2012 06:51 Link
Crafty, may not want to confuse "better" with "good" (or rather "more" with "a lot").

As an analogy, putting money in the IF is now like investing $100 in something that pays out $1 per year. After 1,000 years, it's earned 10x the initial value sure, but you'll be dead before it makes enough to pay off the initial investment.

Let me put it this way:
Attach a timescale of how long you still expect to be around for, say 2 real years. The value of each dollar that goes into the IF is (earning ratio after 2 years * tax/contribution[health/edu] ratio of income) Say we average the tax/contribution ratio to 50%, which should be around what it is last I checked. Now the IF earnings after 2 real years is .02% per day or 14.6% of investment after 2 years... so that money you'll see is 7.3% of what goes into the IF. Now, the contributions into the IF don't seem to exceed 1% here from what I see right now. So after two years, you will earn an extra .073% on the increase in salaries... which is best thought of as an effective salary increase of 99.927% of the actual salary increase after IF contributions are taken into account.

Now, I'm pretty sure IF contributions might exceed 1% of income in a very well managed country. By the way, I also suspect that the ratio of contributions to income has gone down as well. Even if it doubles, that's still less than .15% of worker income that gets put in your pocket over 2 real years.

Now, based on previous observation (I really don't care enough to go back and do it all over again), ONLY profit from interest in the IF gets added to worker income for the month. The earnings from dividends go straight to increasing the size of the IF which means you don't directly see this. Even assuming that for each dollar you put in the IF it spends one year being used as part of a share strategy to increase the size of the IF averaging 1% (P/E ratio of 100, which is pretty good for an average), then that total goes to the fund earning interest for the second year. you will be earning 91.25% of what you'd earn if you left it as cash in the fund. For clarity: not 91.25% more, but 8.75% less. Which given the nature of the example, simply means that there probably isn't a good strategy for improving the return by much if at all.

If dividends actually work by adding the money to income to workers for the month, we're still talking low numbers, but the strat becomes more feasable since after two years you earn (assuming P/e average of 100)... 182.5% for each dollar put in over 2 real years, where you earned 7.3% earlier. Even so, given the small percentage of worker income that makes it to contributions, we're probably talking 2% of worker income that you see after 2 real years.

Which means 2% at best (if dividends go straight to worker income), less than 0.1% at worst (if dividends don't)... and more likely to be closer to 0.1% (since I'm pretty sure they don't).

These numbers are so small as to be almost meaningless in determining whether to raise salaries. Important to understand as well... the IF affects the ideal salary level of a corporation the same as any other factor. It doesn't create a completely separate high salary strategy.
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Andy
10 Oct 2012 10:16 Link
Mizore,

your text is confusing and not relevant at all.
Nobody puts money into the investment funds and their role in the game is currently very limited.
they cost you nothing so why all the fuss.

IFs are also contributing little to the income of people. It is a fraction of the total income and whatever is added, is spent on the market and not necessarily in your country. Interest should in fact be zero as the cash they have is not loaned to anybody.

The main function of the IF is to create a share market that is large enough to prevent some of the possible manipulations that are possible in a small market.

We have published before that there are plans to give the funds a larger role but we need to restructure them before and this is now slowly taking place.

I also do not see where some cap of 10T comes from there is no cap on any of the funds.
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Mizore
10 Oct 2012 12:26 Link
Andy, the audacity of your statements never ceases to amaze me. Keep up the good work.
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sbroccoli
10 Oct 2012 14:44 Link
Well, at least it was crystal clear.
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Josias
10 Oct 2012 15:44 Link
...
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Crafty
10 Oct 2012 16:56 Link
<!-Quote-!>Quote:

I also do not see where some cap of 10T comes from there is no cap on any of the funds. <!-/Quote-!>



The pension fund?
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Crafty
10 Oct 2012 17:08 Link
Anyway, I was just stating that IF contribution was an advantage of higher salaries which it seems it still is, though very slight. This among other advantages.

I was wondering why Drews strategy had failed because, as he tells it, it is the same strategy that proved very successful for an old player named 'Quaxocal'. Some of you may remember his achievements, and any member of GREF should know of him. I dunno, but it just seems another option removed from the experimental player, the game is far more biased to one style of play only. If someone were smart enough to write a bot then the game would be all but over.

And welcome back Klar, you sexy beast you.
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Lorelei
10 Oct 2012 17:28 Link
Dear Andrew,

I have to agree with Mizore. Your rebuttal post came across to me as rather harsh in your use of the word "irrelevant." I would have even taken offense to that. From a public relations standpoint, your advice and corrective comments should come across in a more constructive and respectful manner. I am degreed in Communications, with many years of Public Relations experience. I know it to be a public relations "no-no" to tell anyone (your customers) that what they spent time to post is "irrelevent" even if in your opinion it is irrelevent....get what I'm saying? Word choice is key. I'm not sure that you meant it to come across this way, but since these are words on a screen, and we are unable to hear voice inflections, one can mistakenly take offense at something not meant to be offensive. I think every post on topic is relevant even if someone may not be "accurate" in their knowledge.

And pleaaaaaaaaaaaaaase dun ban me!!! I am trying to be helpful here.
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Crafty
10 Oct 2012 17:44 Link
Ban her Andy, ban her.

She called you harsh and offensive. And further, she accuses you of being unconstructive and disrespectful!

I wouldn't stand for it Andy, no sir, no way.

Crafty cowpat-flinging cockney.
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Lorelei
10 Oct 2012 17:48 Link
I also welcome you back, Klar, you sexy beast, you!!!!! :P I hope, Klar, now that you are back that you can inspire Crafty to revisit Chat and get the old chatroom alive again? I've tried, but I dun have your charisma, or the long-standing friendships you have in the game.
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Lorelei
10 Oct 2012 17:50 Link
Crafty, dun make me fling a shoe at your head or Andy's head for that matter, either!!!! lol I called him "Andrew" that's my endearment name for Andy. SCOWLS AT CRAFTY!!!!! (I think Crafty is trying to "off" me!) ha ha ha

Andy, dun you listen to old man, Crafty. You listen to Lorelei. Muahs!
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Andy
11 Oct 2012 00:46 Link
There was no intention to be harsh or rude.
I am sorry if it sounded so.

Some issues are being discussed here with incomplete knowledge of the real facts. Some times the discussion can become complex while the underlying issue is of very limited value in the game. This is why relevance came in.
We are probably to blame for it although many times the info is available but remains unread.

I tend to make very clear statements. I am not giving my opinion but rather explain the facts.
Such clear statements can be interpreted as rude but the intention is to be 100% clear, not rude.

Also, the 10T in the pension funds is a minimum, not a maximum.
It seems that nearly none of these funds is able to increase its holdings above 10T. This means that 10T is probably too high to be considered a minimum.

we will check the numbers and may drop the minimum and allow these funds drift to the "True" value.