Changes to Navies (Little Upsilon)

like this one . . . .

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or EVEN BETTER

"This error should not occur

Internal server error: no message text (tradeproducts)"

It is obvious for everyone who cares to look, that navies were the only weapon in the war game that had virtually unlimited power.

While all other units declined in size, we have not updated the navy.

Wars in the past had many more weapons involved and you could destroy a navy with 60.000 weapons in a couple of attacks.

It did not make sense. The cost of some wars was staggering.

We have limited the size of units and the total numbers of weapons and also the cost of wars. At the time, the complete world industry was not able to produce the numbers of weapons people were forced to purchase.

So now we have, at last, brought the navy to shape.

We were not able to limit the number of weapons and cannot do it too quickly; we need to give players time to adapt.

The easy way was to limit the attack size.

We are now developing the feature that will allow the limitation of the max number of weapons in a single navy by limiting the number per type of weapon.

The feature will be finished by Monday and can be installed on Tuesday next week.

For starters, we will limit the number to 20.000 per type of weapon. This is hardly a limitation and hardly realistic.

Max attack size is 400 per type of weapon.

We will then reduce the numbers gradually and may end up at 2000 per type or less but it will take two months or so to get there.

Needless to say, nothing will be lost in the process.

Some more testing and the setting of conditions to the rearming of navies will need to be decided on and completed before we can decide on the definitive numbers.

Changes are always at the wrong moment. This one was overdue and announcing it could have adverse effects on the behavior of some players and cause even more trouble.

We are aware of other problems in weapon systems and intend to solve them ASAP.

When navies become smaller, weapons will not be deactivated. They will remain active but not deployed on a carrier.

TOm, for whatever reason I can order from the strategic menu and the error coming up reads

"
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Any thoughts??? I am currently on the menu, itsa not associated with any country in particular either. So far its two I have tried

Thank you for the numbers, Tom. However as others have pointed out, navies will soon become so small as to become utterly ineffective against anything other than very lightly defended targets. 400 MIBs completely nullifying a NFP/CM ship bombardment? Give me a break.

I would like to suggest a limit of 8-1000 weapons per carrier (as defensive naval batteries and NFP are a lot smaller than the actual SHIPS), and that the number of weapons usable in a single attack increase to 6-800 of a single type.

An alternative to NFP's former uber-effectiveness would be to simply increase the maximum size of air defense wings from 400 to 1000, letting more ints respond to a NFP attack at once, and wear them down quicker.

Basically, the only thing the phase-in means is that I have two months to sell my soon-to-be-worthless navy, rather than immediate-panic-selling it all at once.

A more backdoor way to handle the problem would be to increase the firing rate of naval weapons to partially offset their diminished numbers. In the past, when W3C has sought to reduce numbers of weapons, it has increased the effectiveness per weapon.

@ Austia.

Not exactly.

But Tom did give us this

<!-Quote-!>Quote:

We plan to add transport ships that will move army units to remote locations, in the same way air transport is doing so now.

Ships are larger and they will be able to move larger quantities.<!-/Quote-!>

Its a start in the right direction.

:-)

Thank you, Laguna, for putting to rest my strongest concern.

Tom,

What you are posting does not make sense. Changing the size of the fleet does not change the war engine or make a unit weaker or stronger. 50,000 units that are slaughtered 400 at a time are useless. All 50,000 of them. Separate small fleets of 1200 that are devastating in waves 1000 are very effective. You are going to slowly implement the insignificant change and have instantly delivered the huge change.

The effectiveness of a unit is determined by the percentage lost in a round of combat, the number of enemy units destroyed in a round of combat, the costs of ammunition and weapons used and the cost of weapons and ammunition used by the defender.

The cost of wars won't go down. It will just require more clicks of the mouse to get the job done.

I would like to suggest a limit of 8-1000 weapons per carrier (as defensive naval batteries and NFP are a lot smaller than the actual SHIPS), and that the number of weapons usable in a single attack increase to 6-800 of a single type.


^^I left out a zero and it's too late to edit. I meant eight to ten thousand weapons per carrier, not something between eight and one thousand.

Otherwise I WILL sell my navy and just replace it with defense, until I figure out what other power projection capacity to build in the navy's place...

yeah my NFP's are dropping like flies

lmao!

Oh yes its a "LMAO", but I'll be laughing this one all the way home Jason.

Thanks for these suggestions.
Obviously we will do some more testing ourselves and attack garrisons and army units with various numbers of navy weapons.

We know that 1000 NFP can destroy whatever they attack with little losses.
They should remain effective of course but at a cost.

The way the war engine works, there are many small rounds of fighting with the defense striking first.

With 1000 NFP, the first strike round destroyed too much of the defense to allow for any serious damage by the next defensive strike.

Honestly, shouldnt the attacker be going first in any given round, seems only reasonable to me that attacking means you get off the first shots.

Yeah Tom, I would imagine that somewhere between 600-800 weapons attacking would be a far better balance, esp. with NFP

<---Orders Pizza

Quote " Yeah Tom, I would imagine that somewhere between 600-800 weapons attacking would be a far better balance, esp. with NFP "

Now that suggestion makes sense!

we need to see how much damage the defense can inflict on the navy with any number of weapons, the losses, depending on the numbers and the cost.

And of course, how quickly can a navy destroy a target and at what cost.

Attacking is always more expensive than defending.

It seems that the main point is not clear yet:

When we introduced the new war engine, the navy remained huge while all other weapon systems became smaller.

we are now making an overdue correction and will bring the navy to its right size.

war will be won with land forces, air forces and navies and a lot more thinking.

That is clear Tom. However going from 1000-400 is a drastic change. Navies have gone from a death star caliber weapon down to a nuisance. Carrier Naval task forces should be strong, just not impregnable.
At least to the level of 1 Air Force Attack Unit.
Now they are more on par with a Defense Interceptor Wing. I do fully agree with the idea that the size of a fleet should be limited though.

<!-Quote-!>Quote:

When the current WE was introduced the change was intended to stop long range wars. It was mentioned in several updates. The naval portion of the game escaped the first series of updates. It was the last remaining "old style" portion of the new engine, meaning unlimited numbers of weapons could be deployed on a single "base" (carrier, helicopter carrier, fleet command).

The changes were long overdue. I would not be surprised to see more changes installed to limit long range warfare as it is the stated goal of W3C.<!-/Quote-!>

<!-Quote-!>Quote:

The navy template was left over from the old war engine. In a sense, it wasn't playing to the rules. It was playing to the old set of rules. It's finally been made to match the new WE. Finally.<!-/Quote-!>

<!-Quote-!>Quote:

It seems that the main point is not clear yet:

When we introduced the new war engine, the navy remained huge while all other weapon systems became smaller.

we are now making an overdue correction and will bring the navy to its right size.

war will be won with land forces, air forces and navies and a lot more thinking.<!-/Quote-!>

Some people see the point Tom. Keep the changes and keep on focusing on making the game more challenging. The complaints only mean people care. Which is a good thing.