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Forum General 2016 Obama Movie

2016 Obama Movie

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maclean
10 Nov 2012 08:25 Link
The federal government has widely overstepped its bounds, according to the Constitution. In the main, King Hezzy is right; the Enumerated Powers section of the Constitution pretty much limits the federal government to coinage, a national armed service, tariffs (NOT income tax), and ensuring a free flow of interstate commerce. It was never intended to be the controlling nanny-State that we have today.
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Crafty
10 Nov 2012 14:49 Link
I would quite like a nanny...

Provided she was under 30 and of Scandanavian descent.
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Samsin Valiga
10 Nov 2012 17:12 Link
crafty that deserves a lol haha are chicks in scandanavia really that hot

and I agree with that maclean I think the federal government needs to chill out abit but they have made ammendments that allow for income tax
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iamihop11
11 Nov 2012 08:37 Link
I'm sorry if this is a little off topic, but am I the only person who thinks it's strange that the government forbids gas stations from raising gas prices to meet demand (specifically after Sandy), so people go crazy and buy all the gas? This causes an even worse shortage, so the government has to step in again and impose rationing and enforce it with police.

Why not just let the gas stations charge what they want? The markets will find the balance between what people are willing to pay and the supply that's available. In fact, it would provide extra incentive to get more gas in there.
This way people will only buy what they need, and the prices will gradually drop back to normal.

I'm not always a huge free market advocate because the free market is completely blind to hidden costs (ie social, environmental, or long-term costs), but this seems like such a simpler and more elegant solution.
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Mizore
11 Nov 2012 08:54 Link
<!-Quote-!>Quote:

People will always be put in poverty because something that is essentially free elevates to a point that actually has the power to keep the lower class from ever having the freedom to have any extra money whatsoever. On that point when has anyone lately had the ability to go to a gas station and say I will buy your gas but only if they lower the price to 2.00$. Then when does a person have the ability to say fine I won't buy your gas? This doesn't happen because people don't have the right to denial, only products with a right of denial can function properly in a capitalist system. -- Drew, thread: Can anyone define "Capitalism"<!-/Quote-!>

I'm sure this isn't entirely out of context.

You're fighting the whole notion that letting the price rise is "exploitation" and "profiteering" even when it's the most reasonable solution to solving the problem of scarcity.
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maclean
11 Nov 2012 15:28 Link
Kudos, Crafty. Me too :)
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Alex Borders
11 Nov 2012 16:20 Link
There is a huge history to gas price regulation - I'm sure there are excellent books on the subject.

I believe that historically, gasoline companies have been effectively a semi-regulated public utility.

For instance, did you know it is illegal for a gas station to sell gas below it's wholesale cost? In California, someone sued the grocery store gas pumps under this law, and as a result, they no longer offer that '10 cents off per $50 in groceries' promotion they used to? (I'm not entirely certain of this - there was a vague reference to this in a newspaper article I read a few months ago). This was originally done to prevent the major chains from underselling locally owned stations to drive them out of business, and then having a local monopoly (allowing them to jack the price way up and making up their losses).
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SweetPea
11 Nov 2012 18:14 Link
<!-Quote-!>Quote:

America is a masonic Fascist Plutocracy. We have given our sovereignty to the corporation called the Federal Government in Washington D.C. Our Sovereignty is in the Bill of rights. The rest of the constitution are the laws of the corporation. We are not suppose to be american citizens. We are suppose to be citizens of what ever state you are from living in the federation of the United states. This is the true form of the Republic, but we hired this corporation to be the middle man between the states, and they have taken over the power of the states, and the sovereignty from its people. Every time you say you are a US citizen and conform to the laws congress passed, you give up your freedom, and sovereignty. We do not ever look into the clause in the Bill of rights that says we are to overthrow any government that infringes on the sovereignty of any person in any state. The federal Reserve System is an infringement on our sovereignty. I like to see somebody make a documentary on that. I am sure it would not get off the blog to which it was written.<!-/Quote-!>



Surprisingly enough... Hezekiah is dangerously right on point with his summary of the United States.

For those of you in denial, please do your diligence and google it. Youtube has hundreds of documentaries covering every fact Hezekiah laid out, for those of you who don't like to read, it is even in pictographic education form.

Don't parrot your patriotism, instead absorb the knowledge the average American doesn't even care to understand and the rest will be become clear to you very quickly.

If you need some suggestions I'll post some links.
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Samsin Valiga
11 Nov 2012 20:45 Link
im not close minded and blind with patriotism sweetpea. I notice signs of obvious aristocracy in America.. im just saying that its not centralized government that is causing this like i said "State and federal governments are not intrinsically different"

and please do post those links im always open to new investigation
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SweetPea
11 Nov 2012 21:54 Link
I agree with you on the govt. not being a bad thing. Republicans just needed a new enemy public enemy to deflect from their own unpopularity. You know,,, by blaming the current govt. for the results of policies they promoted and passed for the previous 8 years.

I will post the links sometime during halftime of the Dallas Philly game...
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maclean
11 Nov 2012 22:00 Link
Samson: yeah, they did pass an amendment for income tax, nearly 150 years after the original constitution was signed. It was under a Democrat presidency, so (to everyone else) all you people belly-ache-ing about republicans best take a lesson as to who is the bad guy...
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Jiang Hu Warrior
12 Nov 2012 00:38 Link
NO ONE WINS
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Samsin Valiga
12 Nov 2012 01:01 Link
hey maclean INCOME TAX IS A GOOD THING IT PAYS FOR THE GOVERNMENT I will never be so myopic to just hate the guy who increases taxes.....do you still think this country can be paid for through tariffs? no probably not if we did we wouldn't have your precious military......lol bad guys and good guys Republicans and democrats I don't designate them as bad guys and good guys that's childish they are all when averaged out about mediocre...and sweet pea kudos to you for recognizing the low tactics of the republican party
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Wilhelm II Hohensteinburg
12 Nov 2012 06:36 Link
yeah Scandinavian chicks are hot lol, only thing I can help you in this american government thread, it is very interesting though, reveals what you kind people think of your own system
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iamihop11
12 Nov 2012 07:56 Link
I think it's a very good thing that we people are constantly grating against our system. I'm much more worried about people (sheep, really) who never question or think for themselves.

On the gas price issue, I personally can understand gas being somewhere between a human right (like water) and a regular commodity (like peanut butter). The former should remain forever in the public domain and should never be privatized. The latter should have no government influence outside of ensuring safety. Gas is somewhere in between, but the REASON that it's in between is because of the way we have structured our society. Ideally, it shouldn't be a near-necessity at all, but (thanks largely to the auto industry and big oil) our cities are built around our cars, and therefore around gas. I think that's a huge problem.
Here's the thing, though: I wish gas stations could charge whatever they wanted. The higher gas prices go, the less people buy. It would push us that much faster away from foreign (or any) oil. It almost feels like a government-supported conspiracy to keep us on oil - actually, it is, considering how in-bed the govt has been with car and oil companies, and subsidies and whatnot.
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Drew
12 Nov 2012 08:42 Link
1. Gas prices was just used to show that those who create the demand can not force a surplus of a good that important to our society. Too prove a point, it didn't need to be gas but gas was easy to use.

2. You use gas scarcity as an excuse, I call BS. Now I'm not going to deny gas scarcity but the problem is how gas is utilized. American Gas is not sold to Americans. They sell it to the highest bidder for example France, who pissed off all other heavy gas contributors. Meanwhile in the states we buy from others who do the same to us. So we as Americans have no clue about the supply level we actually have and prices are manufactured with less regards to supply as you may think. So one can quite easily argue government intervention will guarantee a more productive American society if so many politicians weren't in big oil's wallet.

3. I don't really mean for this to be a heated point but I personally would like to defend Democracy for a bit though I don't agree with it. The constitution is a system of laws to ensure we are productive and free. If we as a society can ensure that we can improve the system we are not only supposed to change it, but we should be required to do so. The constitution has always been a current set of laws not a permanent one. If it is so permanent where is the democratic right to usher in the will of the people?

4. Big government is not necessarily against small government. Big government is against the next strongest sense of control. Outside of the federal government which entity has the largest sense of control? If you put every option on the table you will see if there is a decrease in the power of the federal government you will assuredly find an increase in the power of corporate control. This is among others, and there will 100% with absolute certainty a failure of equal representation to the rules and idealogues of the people and even the majority with the breakdown of fed. I for one do not want to give more power to those that claim to be multinational citizens.

5. Macro-management is cheaper then Micro-Management as a generalized statement. Macro also has better synergy a bigger big picture sense, a sense of a standard to increase overall fairness. Micro would then have a benefit a specialized action due to specific circumstances but I cannot see that by any means outweighing the benefit of financial responsibility and/or big picture longer term growth. Macro-management=Fed, Micro-management=state.

6. I don't get the nanny stateness? I never have what in my life is over-regulated except the click it ticket nonsense?

7. As far as regular commodities I definitely see the justification of no intervention, but I can't see any problem at all with intervention. Just because people think capitalism is good doesn't mean it's best. So many of you take things as they are, but why? If we can ensure supply of peanut butter to everyone without supplying any negative impact, who loses? the few people who own peanut butter companies? Out of those few people how many of which founded the peanut butter corp? It's all quite ridiculous when you think about it.

I know a $hitstorm is coming for this post but why not have a sense a unity, foresight, and personal integrity when making decisions for a nation? Also I'd like to point out that though I am an advocate of big government it does not necessarily mean I believe in a much of the expenses that the fed takes in. BUT I BEG OF YOU TO LOOK AT THE WASTE THAT STATES ACCUMULATE
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iamihop11
13 Nov 2012 01:51 Link
The "scarcity" I was referring to (other folks may have been thinking something different) was localized, temporary, and relative (supply vs demand). More American oil would stay in this country if government subsidies didn't encourage its transport. If fuel prices were allowed to rise to their true costs, they wouldn't ship as much to France, and the same is true for our imports. Government intervention has a proven track record of artificially cheapening fuel, bankrupting our small farmers, decreasing investments in public transportation, and undermining renewable energy development. We may produce more, but it's worth less (for example, farmers are paid to overproduce grain crops, which drives down prices).

I definitely don't like the way things are.

Anyway, the most interesting point you made, in my opinion, was linking the growth of the federal gov't to the growth of national and multi-national corporations. I'm not sure which contributed to which (maybe a positive feedback), but at this point I agree that states would have a devil of a time coping with the power of corporations, if the federal gov't disappeared. Even the federal gov't is buckling under the power of big companies.

If you take away the consumer protection agency, EPA, USDA, etc, it really would be tantamount to ceding power directly to the very industries whose corrupt mismanagement was the impetus for those departments existing in the first place. Jeez, nice run-on sentence, huh?

At least we can vote for our politicians.

7. This system doesn't have a good record. Where capitalism results in stratification, communism tends to lower (almost) everyone together. The net quality of life in capitalism is usually higher. The only way to ensure peanut butter for everyone is to detach the price from its actual value. There would be little incentive to make peanut butter, and no incentive at all to make GOOD peanut butter. Innovation ceases, worker motivation drops, standards decline. We've seen this all before. USSR and China were beautiful examples of this system failing miserably. Look what happened when China tried to nationalize its agriculture system: 45 million people starved. 45 MILLION PEOPLE!

I hope you don't get a storm of any type for expressing your views. One last little point: I'm from Virginia, which is constitutionally bound to have a balanced budget. They run a much tighter ship that the federal government does. I just did some research and discovered that every state except Vermont has some type of balanced budget restriction. They vary in effectiveness; obviously California's hasn't worked too well. But don't be too quick to write off the effectiveness of local/state governments for using resources more efficiently.
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Drew
13 Nov 2012 06:59 Link
Hop, I thoroughly enjoyed your post and don't agree with most of it, but it is because of a difference in understanding we both have. I also think I like your look because we take topics fairly and use your libertarian/masters degree studies to defend it. You don't just dismiss things. So kudos to you, it was rare to find free thinkers when I went through grad school merely puppets.

So as I sign of respect I will defend what you contest to.

Virginia and state fiscal responsibility: I can't possibly understand all state authorities but I am pretty well versed on those in the midwest primarily IL, WI, but also MO, MN. These states don't have such a solid track record, except WI and that is pre-scot walker WI. I support the use of a budget but the question isn't how much they spend money, it is how they spend money. For example the House of Reps and the senate have very similar responsibilities. Each senator has a staff, and each house has a staff. But there are far more Reps. If the federal government would accumulate some of the states power, they would have less employees. Less is more right? But a weaker state will be much less then a weaker fed. More resources to share, less levels of bureaucracy. Why should the reps pay more for staff then the senate does? The more divided anything is the most costly it is. So when I just said it is how they spend money what I'm really refering to is, is it right for decisions to be made to the constraints of the governmental budget or instead the ROI of the individual project? State governments as a combined entity currently employs more people than the fed, the departments of the states tend also to be heavily micromanaged and work independently of the welfare of the state. Leading to situations in which the transportation department will try to justify (without recognizable cause) a budget increase, that happens to against education, etc. The issues involved here lead to a lot of imcompetencies. I know this part is confusing, I probably could have used better words. But the lack of standardization makes it even more difficult for the state execs to have a thorough understanding of the benefits of their decisions.

Mainly I feel the ball has been dropped on federal auditing of cause and effect to government on all levels, which hits smaller sectors harder. So my real take on this situation is The management of the fed is awful but is greater than state is greater than district is greater then local is greater than corporate.

I think it is great we are on the same page with the dangers of corporate power. But you did not see the connection to the current discussion. It was brought up to reference the dangers of shrinking auditing procedures of the fed. If you limit the fed you limit the regulations, if you limit regulations you increase the power of these bastards. If you increase the powers of these bastards you limit freedoms of the individuals. That could be a complicated concept, but the SEC is the agency that would be first on my list then the three that you listed. Everyone is complaining about how big the fed but they fail to see the immense amount of safety that comes from it, That's why I brought it up.

Onto peanut butter. This is an outright opposite opinion here. If the sense of profit is gone, then all that is left in regards to indivual peanut butter is an attribution to cost to manufacture. But you are totally correct and I can't argue with your concept of worker motivation and innovation to the peanut butter industry. But I don't advocate communism. I advocate community, and efficiency. I am NOT a commie, I am NOT a capitalistie. Why are those two options the only ones? Why can't the federal government own a peanut butter factory, pay employees to the share of the contribution they make towards the final product, charge consumers in reference to the cost it takes to produce those goods,and use their completely managed profits to pay for government services, at the same time compete with the public sector to drive down prices to a more consistent level of affordability and quality of life? That's not communism, that is intervention that can be geared towards companies that lower the quality of life. There are millions of smart minds in the world we can create the kind of world we should live in, but I'm an anti-conformist so... Ummm... back to topic, motivation falls in a communist society because of lack of attribution in work to wage. motivation in a capitalist society falls because of lack of attribution in work to wage. Government ownership doesn't mandate equal wages for everybody though communism supports it. Capitalism is notorious for being a classist sect, that encourages discrimination against productive work. It is a completely backwards system. Their are DEFINETELY ways to improve productivity in comparison to the capitalist system.

Government subsidies: I agree with your statements, but disagree with your views. The fed does tons of things wrong but it doesn't the concept is wrong. For example Solyndra, without governement assistance the free market would have to develop alternative energy, however the current energy tycoons would use all of their powers to keep them down for as long possible. Did the governement make mistakes? Of course but they are championing innovation in areas like this. It is positive. And in most cases there is logic in the madness. The food subsidies are a product of the dust bowl. Alternative energies are a product of oil scarcity and global warming. Things that don't work right should be fixed or abandoned. But so many people think abandoning is always the answer but the sunk costs are more alarming then the path of true understanding and the most viable solutions to these mismanagement issues. Increased government intervention in regards to oil disbursement for example can keep our oil here, and force it into a realizable value of cost to manufacture as well as ACTUAL supply vs demand. More lax government in trade will result in the same actions we are doing now. Which is better for the people of this country? Because at the end of the day isn't that what is important?

The fed does so many things wrong, but it doesn't mean it being big is bad. Instead of shrinking it we need to fix it. Sorry for the length.