Simcountry
Forum General Socialism and Urbanization (Little Upsilon)

Socialism and Urbanization (Little Upsilon)

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Latias
04 Oct 2009 19:29 Link
I'm only asking about this one source because the only link available simply reiterates the town meeting; no reference to a primary data source is offered. As it fails to provide supportung data for the conclusions he draws I am unable to perform further study upon his position in regards to the topic at hand, and as such am unable to draw a complete conclusion.

There is no explicitly offered factual basis; simply implied.

Hence why I am asking you for access to any primary data source relating to what the gentleman brings up in this video.

If you do not have access to any simply say so and I will drop the point.
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Solomon Grundy (Fearless Blue)
04 Oct 2009 21:34 Link
Lets see, I googled "Mike Ruppert Confronts John Deutch" which I simply copy & pasted from the top of the Youtube video that was posted.

With that I clicked on the first couple of links and they were the you tube video that I just left, so I backed up and clicked on the third one down:

[John Deutch - FamousWhy
Former LA Police Officer Mike Ruppert Confronts John Deutch.]

With that I saw another video titled "Gary Webb, in his own words" (thinking that may be support evidence I clicked it- lo & behold Gary seems to testify to the same thing)

So, I want to link that video here and I can't do that from 'Famous Why?' so I'll search for the same video on another client... brb

Oops, and there's a google video!

Now, why did I have to do that for you?!

Sheesh
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Latias (Golden Rainbow)
04 Oct 2009 22:19 Link
You seem to be missing the point, Solomon, in at least two ways.

Firstly, when one makes a point it is their responsibility to provide information which supports that point. Not the people to whom the point is being made.

Secondly, I'm asking for the primary information which the gentleman references in this video, not a reiteration of points he has already made.

I don't want the gentleman's opinion/comments (secondary source}. I want to see the information upon which he is basing his opinions. In short, the primary source.

If you are simply basing your opinion upon the opinions of others, that is fine. Despite what you are trying to imply I haven't yet taken a side in this discussion. I simply wish to base my own opinion upon the sources mentioned within the video - which I assume to be textual in nature from the way it is discussed - in the same way as the gentleman claims to.

If you have access to the information upon which he bases his points, then I would very much like to view it. If not, please say so and I will let it drop here.
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Keno (Fearless Blue)
05 Oct 2009 00:29 Link
lost me , whats this thread about again?
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Solomon Grundy (Fearless Blue)
05 Oct 2009 00:41 Link
Latias, I suggest you find someone that will jump when you say 'jump'.
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Solomon Grundy (Fearless Blue)
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Kali Rivers (Fearless Blue)
05 Oct 2009 05:46 Link
Solomon, it would be good if you listen to what Latias is asking of you.
Otherwise you are not arguing, or debating, or presenting any reasoned argument - you are just trumpeting your opinions without anything to back them up.
Geez it is so wearying to listen to conspiricy theorist nutters - they just DO NOT SHUT UP, they gabble on & on & after a while they arnt even funny - certainly never serious.
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Latias
05 Oct 2009 06:18 Link
Thank you, Kali.

Solomon; I will assume that this means you do not have the primary source. Thank you anyway.
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Solomon Grundy (Fearless Blue)
05 Oct 2009 10:59 Link
Oh, ok... Well then just disregard anything and everything I say in the future then please. :)

I obviously provide NO sources what so ever and anything I post is boring and uninformative. Oh, and wrong!

Please don't waste your time on reading what I post in the future.

Thanks for your help!
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Latias
05 Oct 2009 16:37 Link
Dear me. If this is how you respond when asked for further information, I'd hate to see how you respond when somebody posts a source to the contrary.

My request was fairly simple; I wished for you to produce the information upon which the gentleman was basing his opinion, assuming you had it. I see now that assumption was erroneous.

It wasn't an attack upon your opinion, though you obviously assumed it was. For that misinterpretation I am truly sorry.

Should you at any point find yourself able to differentiate between a primary and a secondary data source source - and furthermore find yourself in possession of the former - then I would be most delighted to recieve a copy. I do so relish having facts at my disposal when I am forming an opinion.

My most gracious thanks for your time,

Latias.
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Solomon Grundy (Fearless Blue)
05 Oct 2009 22:38 Link
No, it's not an attack on my opinion. You are correct.

What you've done is go completely off subject because you have no way to defend your position so you take us off to bitching endlessly about references as if that has ANYTHING to do with what's being talked about. JUST SO YOU CAN MAKE SOLOMON WRONG!

Pathetic!

Guess what? Anyone with more than 3 brain cells and has not been afflicted by the same mental illness as the typical liberal can plainly see this for themselves, oh and they do, believe me.


So keep up with your little game, I'm immune. I can easily just never read what you write and never respond when I find myself doing so.

Where you're screwing up is the fact that I'm just waiting for you to pull this bullshit on someone who isn't so immune to your tactics of self denial and all the subject changes and personal attacks that go with it. Yup, you're getting jumped every time I see you pulling this shit on someone else. They won't need to worry about replying to you... Your ass will be mine first. I'm going to cut you down EVERY TIME.
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Latias (Golden Rainbow)
05 Oct 2009 23:14 Link
I cannot believe you still don't get it... I stated no position. All I did was ask for elaboration. Repeatedly.

I only wish you could see yourself. The hypocrisy is incerdibly amusing.
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Solomon Grundy (Fearless Blue)
06 Oct 2009 00:16 Link
Oh, ok, all of your positions go away because you don't state them constantly. I guess I'm beginning to understand your mania. You don't believe you take on the ideals that you champion.

Pressing the 'footnote' crap is rude and you know it.

I'm NOT going to bend over backwards for you... what don't you get about:
<!-Quote-!>Quote:

Solomon Grundy (Fearless Blue)
Latias, I suggest you find someone that will jump when you say 'jump'. <!-/Quote-!>



You just seem like you're here to confuse and frustrate and I have no respect for that, as a matter of fact I have disrespect for that.
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Solomon Grundy (Fearless Blue)
06 Oct 2009 00:36 Link
Go ahead... no really... go ahead...

Ask for more supporting evidence... or explain again how what I supplied to you is insufficient and can't possibly meet your needs and it's Solomon's job to measure up to your expectations on being spoon fed.

Better yet! Accuse me of not getting it again! (fkukkin RUDE!)
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Solomon Grundy (Fearless Blue)
06 Oct 2009 01:00 Link
Hmm & Kali...

Kali... Kali... Kali...

Might I point out:

<!-Quote-!>Quote:

Kali Rivers (Fearless Blue)
Solomon, it would be good if you listen to what Latias is asking of you.
Otherwise you are not arguing, or debating, or presenting any reasoned argument - you are just trumpeting your opinions without anything to back them up.
Geez it is so wearying to listen to conspiricy theorist nutters - they just DO NOT SHUT UP, they gabble on & on & after a while they arnt even funny - certainly never serious.<!-/Quote-!>




Like I was saying... Might I point out that, in YOUR OWN POST you are yourself guilty of what you accuse me:

<!-Quote-!>Quote:

Otherwise you are not arguing, or debating, or presenting any reasoned argument - you are just trumpeting your opinions without anything to back them up.
Geez it is so wearying to listen to<!-/Quote-!>





Yes it is :)
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Kali Rivers (Fearless Blue)
06 Oct 2009 12:23 Link
Solomon, how about you STFU
by all means post interesting & meaningful things, but dont go spewing on & on like a bore at a party :(

To think I came back to SC to hear this.
Where are Calloe Wolfs & Mannys when you want them - at least their crap was witty (sort of) & entertaining
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Latias
06 Oct 2009 14:37 Link
Are you finished throwing a tantrum now Solomon?

Good.

You appear to have many issues, and I'm afraid that one post will be insufficient to address them all.

So let's keep this simple.

Firstly, looking back over our "discussion", you will note that I haven't stated an opinion upon the topic at hand. All I've done is ask you to produce primary source information regarding what this gentleman said. Information which would back up what he say as fact.

You, however, take this as a rude, offensive assault upon your point of view.

The world is indeed a very black and white place for you, isn't it. If they're not with you, they're against you. Anybody that doesn't immediately see the conspiracies that you do is obviously an inhumane monster.

But all that aside, allow me to define primary and secondary source for you:

A primary source is, in simple terms, raw data - an information source which has yet to be coloured by personal opinion. Statistics. Audio recordings of conversations; video footage of an event; direct observational data.

As an example from my own experience, it would be something such as the data built up regarding observations of astronomical phenomena; mass, radius, temperature of a star in order to calculate magnitudes and luminosities, for example.

Within the context at hand, it would be direct evidence of suggested conversation and the like.

A secondrary source is one which references another source for its information; a newspaper article which references a scientific journal; a politicial speech which discusses an official report; a person who discusses a topic in reference to a data set. In these instances use of the newspaper, political speech or person would be the secondary data source.

Again, say I were to reference the Kelvin-Helmholtz mechanism, quoting comments made by other researches without directly invoking their original data and extrapolations; this would be secondary data.

In the case at hand; an opinion in lieu of direct evidence.

If that does not help you, then I am truly at a loss as to what will. You seem to manufacture opinions where none exist; invoke hostility when somebody simply asks you a question.

And your personal failings cause you to brand everybody who disagrees with you as part of some morally questionable entity without fondation.

And still, despite all this, you fail to present any form of original data. You imply that it exists. Though your unwillingness to prove that it does suggests otherwise.

I'm simply amazed that somebody who likes to argue so much doesn't understand the basic precepts of backing up their own argument.

Perhaps you would learn if only you could see yourself, and what the community as a whole thinks of your opinions. Still, one cannot make the blind see by force of will alone.

C'est la vie.
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Solomon Grundy (Fearless Blue)
06 Oct 2009 23:30 Link
Nope, I'm not finished by a long shot.

This WILL take more than one post.

First order of business:


<!-Quote-!>Quote:

Perhaps you would learn if only you could see yourself, and what the community as a whole thinks of your opinions.<!-/Quote-!>



Before I continue, I invite anyone who stands with Latias to chime in now.
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Solomon Grundy (Fearless Blue)
06 Oct 2009 23:57 Link
Don't gang me, Kali, don't get knocked back.
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Latias
07 Oct 2009 14:30 Link
Wow. Just; wow.

Of all the issues there in my post, you choose to address the one about your popularity.

I guess I should've known.
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Solomon Grundy (Fearless Blue)
07 Oct 2009 22:52 Link
Ok, I have no interest in tearing Latias down. I have no interest in turning Plato's topic into a negative experience FOR A WEEK. (or should I say 'another'?)

I apologize Plato, you don't deserve this. I also apologize to the community as a whole, you don't deserve this either.

With the amount of people that chose to involve themselves after 24 hours opportunity I'm calling this a dead horse.

Lets get back on topic shall we?

<!-Quote-!>Quote:

Plato (Little Upsilon)


I have often thought that there is a relationship between socialism and urbanization. It seems to me that the need for government grows exponentially as population density increases.

What do you all think?
<!-/Quote-!>

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Parsifal (Kebir Blue)
07 Oct 2009 23:06 Link
Trying to brings things back on subject.....
in this time of people being able to post almost anything online, you can make a post and if it is repeated and sent out enough places, it takes on an air of credibility, even though there is no substantive evidence to prove it. and if you put it on u-tube and enough people are standing in the background yelling approval, it doesn't matter what the person says, it takes on a sense of truth. that's one reason why eye witnesses in the court of law are being seen as less than reliable. humans see things from the lenses of their perspective. and our perspectives are most often different.

as to the issues of socialism and urbanization the same questions arise about freedom and totalitarianism. is freedom being able to do whatever you want? i don't think so. but deciding what that line is is tricky. for one person freedom is being able to start a new business or believe in a set of values that may not agree with other's values. i think an element of freedom is being able to challenge one another in respectful ways realizing that we may agree, but we also may agree not to agree. that's an element of freedom....that we don't have to agree on everything. but we have to be political(how we live together). in order for freedom to exist we have to be engaged. opting out of the system denys us freedom of movement because we are constricted by our own isolation. totalitarian gov'ts impose those restrictions of movement and thought, but a more sinister form of totalitarianism is self imposed isolation, where i don't become involved in the process of community or relationships.

well, anybody want to lick lemon sorbet with me?
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Solomon Grundy (Fearless Blue)
08 Oct 2009 00:02 Link
See? We don't get to decide what that line is, as Americans.

We've had democracy shoved down our throats so often that we've come to believe in it. The truth is that we don't have democracy in America. We don't get to rally 51% of the people and start changing things. Things like freedom are(were) already established in a Constitutional Republic where even 99% of people can't deny 1% of the people the rights recognized(not established) by the republic's constitution.

Democracy = The Mob Rules