Gun law

Lol, love u dude, good night.

WHAT TYRANICAL GOVErNMENT? geez some of you keep talking with absoluetly no concept of truth.

Anyways that constitution argument I pushed was taken wrong, my fault but eh, I'll defend it. People would be willing to change the constitution if it was for the sake of national prosperity without destroying individuals rights. That's all. Why fight for the second amendment, if it is broken? Why fight for the 10th amendment when everyone interprets it differently? Those are rhetorical

I'd rather you pay attention to the question how is our government so tyranical. and Jojo is right I didn't mention personal choices. But its because it is irrevelant. A good example is "The Affordable Care Act" (Obamacare), it supports your point. A federal insurance mandate?! Right that is a bad example. I do like the terms of it, but having cheaper healthcare still dependant on money grubbing insurance companies still isn't the way to go. This takes away personal decision, but what else does? What government policies takes away your ability to do something? Now if you do have an answer does that activity hinder the rights of another individual? Mostly government policy doesn't negatively impact your choices, unless their completely immoral like slavery, or discrimination.

Argh anyways don't know where I was going with that but... I say it how it is. I'm not sure if it is possible to dismantle state borders, but it doesn't change the fact I think they should. I don't know how long it should take to ban guns, but I think they should. I'm against property taxes it won't change the fact that I have to pay them. Despite the 4th amendment I'd still lose my property if I don't.

I'm not a socialist, I'm very independent and most things I have a very different opinion on then other people

I'd say that if a state can be created/divided, two could possibly be merged, although the economic and strategic costs would be impractical.

Anythings possible

i tried to stay away from this topic but what the hell. i'm drunk and pissed off so here goes. you want to talk about gun control and what have you. get rid of the drugs and crap from the streets then i'll listen. you have the distinct honor to hear this from someone who has fought to defend your freedoms. i killed, bleed, and saw others die so you can have your precious freedoms. but sadly, you're like most non combatants. you always gotta gripe about something. wait till your ass is in harms way. you'll be glad that person used his/her gun to save you. i've seen this before. you're no different. hardest part is you have to admit you're just afraid.

I;m drunk too! YAH 26, what a minute that sux. You served your country? When did you defend my freedoms? Why did you kill? Why did others have to die? Because they told you? They tolf you you were doing something great. When did anyone declare war on us?

When extremists flew aircraft into the World Trade Center. Remember that Drew? If anything is a declaration of war, that was.

Crafty, who made them angry enough to fly planes into buildings?

America and Israel, who single-handedly have pissed off the entire Arab world. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.

If anything, America declared war first.

(And I'm not being insensitive. Just looking at it from a lateral point of view)

Dont equate Al Queda to Israel. Or to Afghanistan, or Pakistan or anywhere in fact. It was a declaration of war from an extremist wing of a religious quasi political clan who took it upon their shoulders to do such without democratic or, if you prefer, popular, opinion.

Or was it.....? (the truth is out there...)

I'm with crafty and krash

definitely

These terrorist groups ( barring the conspiracy stuff ) have been waging war agasint us for a long time. I read the history of all of it, and it goes back really far. I know where Krash is coming from. People go and fight wars while we sit on the couch and complain about Gas prices and our tea getting hot. Or getting cold if you live in the UK. We have it made now, but one day war will find its way here to our backyards.

@Tom Morgan

"And I'm not being insensitive." Why??..because you say your not.
"Just looking at it from a lateral point of view" Really, what's your lateral point of view?
"Every action has an equal and opposite reaction." In physics that's a true story.
The "entire Arab world" was not involved in the attack, Al Queda was.
And finally, the guy who "made them angry enough to fly planes into buildings", has left the planet.

Over three thousand people died that day Tom. Those people had very little to do with middle eastern politics.

I think your post is not only insensitive, it's offensive to normal sensibilities.

"America and Israel, who single-handedly have pissed off the entire Arab world."

Go back to the creation of Israel, you can practically reach back and touch it. Consider the history of armed conflict between Israel and it's Arab neighbors. Now give me an honest opinion, what do you think would be different today if America had withdrawn it's support of Israel at any given time?

the US made some poor foriegn policy decisions in the middle east (probably nothing to deserve such brutal idiotic mad attacks on civillians) but o well now we are at war and we have to defend ourselves and those extremists aren't exactly reasonable people most of them are ethier morons just believing tons of extremist propoganda or they are power hunger sadists who maintain power by blaming all their problems on the west....I awkniwledge Americas mistakes and I'm angry about them but I still don't understand people who seem to side with essentially evil or confused TERRORISTS who blow up people indiscriminately and cause huge ammounts of destruction and pain I guess its just another mark of our sad society

Regardless of my feelings of Americas policies, your right. Were there now and have to defend ourselves and support our brothers and sisters. I dont support any religion that says killing innocent people will make you a maryter in heaven. And i dont appreciate at all seeing my friends blown up by suicide bombers and idiots. The middle east is just as guilty of propoganda as our own goverment here in the good ole U S of A

If America never had any ties with Isreal, there wouldn't have been 9/11. I said it, you disagree move on. Now what business did England have fighting with Saladin for Juresulum? I will give you the fact that the Muslim world is aggressive at times, and if you view the Indian religious wars between Muslum and Hindi they too are unnecessary. They have equal rights conflicts that i don't support as well with Shiriah Law. But tell me when Muslim's did anything worse then Judio-Christians? In fact they are better in many regards, they never had slaves for example. Willingness to kill over religion is equally bad on both sides. Europe and America also didn't value women as important as a man. The 2 biggest differences are that the Muslim world does a better job not throwing away their believes with social changes, and that the Muslim world has never forced their believes on anyone else. With that said Europe and America savagely attacks the muslim believers with direct aggression, (the crusades), or through a proxy (giving Israel everyone militaristic demand they ever asked for for the destruction of the Muslim world). Who is worse America is worse, our country deserved to get attacked, but yes once again it isn't the people themselves, it is merely the select individuals that made things the way they are. But we live in a democracy we the people had the ability to change it, and we didn't so every America has blood on their hands. I for one would like to correct it.

<!-Quote-!>Quote:

But tell me when Muslim's did anything worse then Judio-Christians? In fact they are better in many regards, they never had slaves for example.<!-/Quote-!>

They are simply no worse, where did you ever get the idea people of the Muslim religion never had slaves?

Both the Qur'an and the Hadith have multiple references to slavery.

You are reaching farther and farther Drew, you have your beliefs we have ours, and your powers of persuasion are not up to the task at hand.

I for one would rather not live to see many of the changes you prescribe. I would imagine there are many such as I (however I don't know, don't care about that), so when you get your "strong central government" up you'd best take care of us first thing.

I'm up for the task. I issued an unanswered challenge, you try to quell that challenge, give into the facts I propose, or simply ignore my unpatriotic arse, the choice is yours

Nay Drew, your not up to the task.
Who cares about your unanswered challenge, what ever it was?
Who cares about quelling it?
Who cares about the facts you proposed.

"If America never had any ties with Israel, there wouldn't have been 9/11. I said it, you disagree move on."

That could be a true statement, I couldn't say for sure. I can say for sure that it is a completely irrelevant statement and makes as much sense as saying if America was on another planet there wouldn't have been 9/11.

"you disagree move on." Your unpolished arrogance is showing.

"Europe and America also didn't value women as important as a man. The 2 biggest differences are that the Muslim world does a better job not throwing away their believes with social changes, and that the Muslim world has never forced their believes on anyone else."

Another irrelevant statement. You can march a brass band through that type of reasoning.

Take a poll, of the women sentenced to death by stoning in the upcoming months. Tell us what they did to deserve that and what they have to say about holding on to beliefs.

There is a primitive tribe in New Guinea that is still practicing cannibalism.

Does that mean this tribe does the best job of not throwing away their beliefs, Muslims come in second and the western world a distant third? If that be true, is that something the world should admire?

Read something by Bernard Lewis, Professor Emeritus of Near Eastern Studies, Princeton University. He is controversial, but if you can get past your belief that you have all the answers, he may give you something new to think about.

"our country deserved to get attacked", your quote.

What can I say, No Drew, your definitely not up to the task.

And get a spell checker, my spell checker is tired of having to correct your quotes.

If this was facebook i'd like ricks post just cus i can.

sorry i don't feel like correcting my spelling it might be frustrating, sheer lazinesss.

Anyways yes, holding on to your believes is an admirable trait, I wouldn't put it above progress, and personal respect. In regards to religion however if it is the word of the creator and your job as a human is to serve him, it doesn't matter what you think. I say that with a bit of skepticism against myself as I've been religious. But how is it that one can partake in a religious fued if you defend a religion that has been altered, well not altered but the values have been weighted against social acceptance. This is a very confusing topic.

I am up to the task though, if you just argue that my logic is flawed but don't explain certain parts, those parts are still unchallenged "You can march a brass band through that type of reasoning"

I will say this, we weren't attacked because they enjoy civil rights violations. We luckily have made strides but we didn't enter the middle east to ensure civil rights to them, and they didn't drive the conflict to us simply because they think we're satin.

There is reasoning, there is reasoning on both sides. I will not say that we entered there simply for oil, because I don't know. I can't say with convinction we entered because of a terrorist action. I can say that we brought it on ourselves. The persecution they face based upon turmoil brought on by religion should not be understated. It's like many of my opposers on this topic believe the pain and torture they endured indirectly from us was minor. But that's far from the truth.

""If America never had any ties with Israel, there wouldn't have been 9/11. I said it, you disagree move on."

That could be a true statement, I couldn't say for sure. I can say for sure that it is a completely irrelevant statement and makes as much sense as saying if America was on another planet there wouldn't have been 9/11. "

That was a response to your question:

"Now give me an honest opinion, what do you think would be different today if America had withdrawn it's support of Israel at any given time? "

So not irrevelant

""you disagree move on." Your unpolished arrogance is showing. "

This was merely to keep the conversation somewhat productive. It wasn't an order but a suggestion.

And I think I started with the third quote, so that makes me done with direct referencing. This doesn't have to be complicated. America picked a side in the war and now many view the enemy of this war as immoral and wrong. However they are desperate, and seeking self-defense. I sympathize with them, I don't however respect them any moreso than i would've if nothing happened. if canada nuked us, and we said we won't sleep until we eradicate Canada, would that be justified? Why isn't it for those who are having American Weapons attack their land, people, and faith indirectly from Israel?

Don't take me the wrong way, I don't believe thousands should die in a tower attack, I know if you look at this objectively or subjectively from the other side, a grand attack against the entity responsible is justified. If the US foriegn policy was a person he deserves to be assassinated. Individuals not responsible for it don't deserve to die, and I never intended for it to come out that way. I will blame soldiers for fighting a war that they are unwilling to understand. I will blame government officials that allow these actions to continue.

And Kasper don't let our rivalry there make you instantly disagree with my ideas. You have made it very clear that you feel we wrecked a country (kind of busted already) for government oil. Don't backtrack simply because you have a distaste for me

Rivalary? Is this a contest now to see who uses bigger words or keeps typing the longest. I just plain dont like you. I thought i could had being i thought you may smoke green but now i just want to see down. Immature maybe, but i dont give a damn. But yes, i still agree with my original feelings towrds that subject.

i'm stubborn and hate to lose, what can i tell ya. All i wanted was you to apoligize to the gays for deciding how they're brain worked. Since you won't do that I think your a horrible excuse for a person. I wouldn't worry about that at all, in regards to the board as i'll never let personal opinion deter me from opinion on a subject.

You just pretty much admitted what i was accusing you of in the other post. Your childish and hate to be prooven wrong. In other words, hate to loose. Your a little spoiled brat. Instead of dropping it like i insisted on doing you wanted to keep going. My advice to you, grow the hell up. Simple as that.

I wont apolojize just to make you feel like you won you little baby. How old are you anyway? You must be spoiled as hell to think you get your way in life always. Life dont work like that lil boy.

@ krash: Thank you for your service; some of us really appreciate it. As a kid, i saw our guys coming home from the Nam ( i had a few uncles over there too), and how they were treated in many cases, and I knew even then that it wasn't right, what people were doing. Lo, how soon some forget. Thanks again.
@ Drew: What I wrote was not nonsense, but satire and hyperbole, to illustrate a point. I'm not surprised you didn't get it. Keep trying.
kudos to rick and kasper. And crafty, you seem pretty reasonable, for a lobster
Now for the other barrel: All you America-bashers can smooch my nether regions. We may have problems, and in fact we do, but I refuse to lie down and take it when others are claiming that the U.S. , and the US military in particular, is the source of all evil. We as a nation are spending ourselves into oblivion giving aid to so many countries on this planet, I can't even count them all. For once, I would like to see what happens when a tsunami or hurricane or earthquake hits some other nation, and the U.S. just sits back and watches. Who 's going to help them then? French? the Chinese?? WE are not the source of evil in the world; extremist religious fanatics, along with rogue nations such as North Korea, and Iran (which has publicly advocated vaporizing Israel) are.
And while I am at it, anyone who equates Israel with fanatical muslim states or terrorist groups is blind to the real-world situation--no surprise, since you are the same group that blames America for suffering its own terrorist attacks, so-called "imperialist aggression", fostering worldwide hatred, etc. The State of Israel (1): is honored and supported by millions American Christians and Jews as a special land, culturally and/or religiously; (2): is an island of constitutional representative government in a sea of essentially dictatorial police states and theocracies (an idea that should bring down the wrath of the freedom-bashers and the seperation-of-church-and-state crowd, but alas, does not, since the theo in this ology is not the Christian God, and therefore blandly tolerated); and (3) Israel has a right to exist, irrespective of any cultural or religious views or beliefs of anyone. How would it go over if we suddenly called for turing Egypt, Jordan. Syria, etc., into a self-lighting glass parking lot, the way many of the other Middle Eastern nations do for Israel?
I shall stop now before I get agitated.