Gun law

Remember the American Govt. shooting down 4 students in Ohio?

I didn't read about too many of you shooting back at Govt. forces to defend yourslves from them.

The whole defending yourself from a rogue Govt. thing is a crock of horse manure.

I'm not sure of the carry laws but I thought it was a requirement that the ammunition had to be seperated from the weapon and locked up if you weren't licensed to carry. Maybe it was just in a vehicle. But if this is/was so then the weapon isnt going to do you much good if attacked as the time to marry gun and bullet would leave you helpless.

And surely, if you're carrying, you just make yourself more likely to be dropped by the police. There's documented cases of them killing children with toy guns when they couldn't be sure of the threat. In those cases I dont blame the police, but the mentality of a gun toting society. My grandchildren are not allowed toy guns. Period.

There's a good Bob Dylan line :- "...I'm around too many children, and they should never know one...".

Maybe this could be the way to go. An abrupt change in law is just going to anger too many, even if it could get past congress in the first place. A gradual change in the perception of gun use by education and social stigma would eventually reduce gun crime. This worked for smoking and binge drinking, my beliefs would say this should be the way forward. We are civilised people now and need to grow more so. We tolerate less and less injustice. Maybe gun law should be included in this agenda?

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And surely, if you're carrying, you just make yourself more likely to be dropped by the police.<!-/Quote-!>

And just why would that be? The idea behind concealed carry is the fact you have a firearm is not openly evident. If you know what to look for, and pay attention you might suspect, but you would never know.

There is only one reason for anyone to ever see your firearm. That's when you are threatened to the point deadly force becomes an option.

In that case you use it and simply put your firearm back in it's place of concealment, make the call and wait for the police to ask for it.

But then again, if you are dealing with cops like they have in Great Britain who like to kill people in the subway for wearing a coat in the summer, you could have a problem no matter what you do.

Prohibition did not stop people that wanted to drink from obtaining something to drink, the fact that certain drugs are illegal does not prevent prevent people from manufacturing or using them, making something illegal does nothing but give the criminal elements something else to barter in.

I know it's an old saying but it's true. If you criminalize firearms only criminals will own them.

A criminal does not care about any efforts at education or the effect of any "social stigma" on themselves personally.

And just exactly what gun law would you suggest to enact?

There are already multiple laws that are already ignored when it comes to the use of firearms during the commission of a crime, in many cases the first simply being the ownership of a firearm by a person with a background of crime, violence or mental illness.

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There's a good Bob Dylan line :- "...I'm around too many children, and they should never know one...".<!-/Quote-!>

I find it interesting you quote a man who through his use of illegal drugs was supporting a criminal element and therefore something he was supposedly against.

If you are uncomfortable around firearms and don't want to raise your children around firearms then I would be the first to say don't.

If you really want to change things THAT is the way to effect it.

I grew up around firearms, my parents grew up around firearms, I learned as soon as I could walk to begin respecting them even though I may not have understood completely at that point.

My father received his first firearm from the Sheriff of Boone County Missouri at the age of 8 years old.

I received my first firearm from my father at the age of 11 years old.

I'm not talking something I was given and could only look at. I was hunting alone at that age.

My kids, due to the fact I was divorced when they where young never gained what I considered a basic knowledge of firearms.

Even though they are now adults, my firearms are already in my will to be given to various other people depending on who lives the longest. I would of course hope to have enough warning to distribute them myself.

The best chance due to age is currently the son of a friend, a 15 year old who did grow up around firearms and learned to respect and use them in a responsible manner.

Even that chain could be broken as there are others with a "first shot" at them if still around. They may choose differently when it's their time.

That is the only way you will ever get firearms away from people in the United States. It won't be by any government regulation.

At that point then the responsible citizens won't have firearms. Only the Police, Military and criminals will own them.

And yes Steven, I am back at least for awhile.

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No! Don't be fooled! That is a Yankee Clone! The real one is lurking in the dark, dank recesses of the forum.<!-/Quote-!>

Come over here Laguna .. I'll show you why I lurk in dark places

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I like yankee<!-/Quote-!>

Another poor victim of Yankee's mind manipulation.

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Come over here Laguna .. I'll show you why I lurk in dark places<!-/Quote-!>

Help me! He's coming for me next, and bury the truth with me!

Well Yankee, you seem determined to be narrow minded and totally dismissive of my observations. Even to the extent of making a feeble slur against the country I currently live in.

If a police officer were to see someone acting suspiciously and thought they had some sort of firearm in their hand then the chances are greater that that perp would be shot. Thats the point I was making, not about concealed carriers. I have no doubt the police are trained to be cool headed about it and act in the best way possible but the offenders chances are reduced, as my comment about kids getting shot for toy guns. You never actually say but I am beginning to think you are some form of law enforcement yourself.

Of course there are perfectly reasonable people who respect and, dare I say it, love their firearms. I have never advocated total prohibition of guns. Peer pressure and social stigma DO work, very much so. Now before you bite my head off again, I'm refering to what you might call the unruly youth, the gang members, the teenagers in such poor areas of cities that they are driven to crime by despair and need, and your common garden hoodlum.

This isnt going to eliminate crazies but it would bring down senselessness, which is what the world needs now, less senselessness.

PS. Bob Dylan said that of Ruben Carters opinion of guns. Google him to find out if he had a valid opinion...

Crafty, just because those people in Ohio didnt shoot back doesnt mean no one would. As a matter of fact, we here in America are starting to do just that. Some people dont have the balls to shoot even tho they brag and say they will. All over the country people are starting to stand up to the law enforcement and the goverment. All its gonna take is a certain event and you'll see mass retaliation. You may not hear about it much but cops are being murked all the time. Yes the reason we have guns is because the founding fathers wanted us to have protection agaisnt tyranical goverments, i guess they didnt foresee the goverment having weapons they have but nontheless if were strapped they'll tread a lil more lightly. Thats why they try to control us sublimentally, cus if the population stood up....we'll easily topple them. Im not saying all cops and goverment officials deserve to die....but if they ever try to take our guns...im sure it will be seen as an act of war and ALOT of people will stand up, while alot also lay down and say its not a big deal. One of the reasons i love this country is because of our rights to bear arms....not saying im backing Yankee, im just saying that the whole defending ourselves agaisnt a rouge goverment isnt "horse manure "

Respectfully

Kasper Quinn

http://www.whale.to/b/viallspam.html
THE PORT ARTHUR MASSACRE CONSPIRACY

When someone starts deleting my posts .. it's time to quit posting to this thread

That about sucks Yankee. This censorial post deleting is out of order.

Well I enjoyed your input, mainly, made me think about some of the issues which can only be a good thing.

Kasper, yes maybe it isnt as much bullshit as I flippantly put out. I got to thinking about regimes like Turkey, Libya and half the middle east where the citizens took back their countries from rogue dictators.

And didn't I hear something about recent riots in LA? Hmm, I was there in Watts in the aftermath of that one, sheesh...

Ok guys and girls, I'm going to back off some before I annoy some sensibilities big time. I know this a serious issue to Americans. I hope I got a few looking at themselves a bit though.

Its not really a serious issue, i think u make a good point and i agree with u about 95%. i kno exactly where ur comin from, i would take away guns if i was in charge, be a hell of alot safer. believe me, theres shootings around here quite often and i would feel safer with the guns gone...but wishin is jus that, wishin. They'll never take these damn rednecks guns. Yea LA is jus the begining, all its gonna take is a certain event then the whole country will implode or explode, however u wanna put it. And Yankee its doing it to me too, but when i log back on the post is there again. i think theres a glitch somewhere, i dont think there doing it on purpose, they'd tell u why. If im not mistaken Crafty, u guys be throwin damn molotiv cocktails over there. I think i seen it not too long ago but not extremely recent either. Jus cus u dont have firearms doesnt mean you dont have power. What about those white guy terrorist over there, i think in Belfast. Who are they, the Irish Republic?

BUT, however i do still love the fact that we can bear arms and assemble as a militia. Really for the same reasons i love playing this very game. Its the power.

We have had our fair share of rioting here in the past year. Damn I'm glad there wasn't a bunch of guns involved. But my opinion of it all was that it was mainly opportunistic rioters just out for a bit of anarchy, not a real 'issue'. But thats another long debate.

And yes, the IRA, Irish Republican Army, that goes back many decades, basically about our good friend religion again. Catholic v Protestant. Or British rule of their land. Fortuneately the problems seemed to have been mainly worked out on that one. Now that was with plenty of guns on both sides, and bombs etc. And it did become very bloody. Why do people still do it huh? we're no better than freaking cavemen sometimes.

Anyways, ask your cats Kasper, you'll probably get more sense out of them.

It's all go to do with having a brain stem Crafty, all animals on this planet that have one are hunters.

Mankind by nature is intermittently violent. It's no different than thrill seekers bungee jumping off a bridge, or crack heads looking to require that original high, as a species, violence is encoded in our genes.

Nothing else really excites us, you never hear anyone raving on, and on, about the benefits of peace or security.

Start a war, riot or shoot a couple dozen people and everyone gets excited and starts flipping the channels, cranking the radio, surfing the net, or grabbing a paper in an attempt to find out more.

Lol, that was funny bout the ats part. I guess bottom line to all this, is if we didnt allow just any nut job to have a gun then we wouldnt have these kind of events. So i agree we should seriously phyco analyze someone before giving them power of the trigger, some people just dont need to have guns and this past week or so is a aperfect example of why

"http://www.whale.to/b/viallspam.html
THE PORT ARTHUR MASSACRE CONSPIRACY"

It's people like you who make me feel sick. I'm guessing that you also believe that 9/11 was done by Bush...

I just discovered that the Aurora shooter was apparently under the college psychiatrist...

Guess someone missed something there then.

Ban guns for the general public. It's that simple!

The Bill of Rights was created in 1789.

A completely different time to nowadays and civilization has moved forward.

The right to bear arms has absolutely no relevance to society today! It's 2012 and America has a good police force and people are much more educated and also the the settlers aren't at war with the native people of America.

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The right to bear arms has absolutely no relevance to society today! It's 2012 and America has a good police force and people are much more educated and also the the settlers aren't at war with the native people of America.<!-/Quote-!>

And just exactly where do you live?

thought i read somewhere that holmes a graduate students doing his phd?

if he wanna to use weapons/ammos, he should join us on simcountry.

people who wants to use guns will use guns, regardless. there are just too many chiefs and no indians, so there is really no authority in a nation such as america. it's still a mentality of "might is right"

Yea Crafty i'd say she missed the smoking Gun. You cant ban guns, its NOT that simple. How is it simple at all? What, is the govemrent going to send every cop in the country to everyones house taking away their guns, and trampling all over there rights at the same time? Do you think anyones going to be willing to turn in the very things that keep them safe....then what happens when the criminals who have plenty of guns break into their house and their armed with nothing but a fork? People in this country are already preparing for the govemrent to do sumn just like that, thats why we have militia's and groups getting together just for that reason. This is a Christian country, and if anyones familair with the Bible, theres a scenario where its very possible guns will have to be taken away in order for certain atrocities to happen. I understnad not everyone is religious or a Christian, but millions are here. And when the goverment trys to take their guns, its an act of war that will cause more trouble than its worth. you cant take away the rights of everyone cus a few crazy nut jobs go crazy. Its tragic yes, but everyday passes and stuff like that doesnt happen. Guns save people, more people than they harm. I wouldnt want to live in a world where only cops have guns, then what the hell can we do if they go power crazy. There already many like that just because they have a badge, make them the only ones with guns and it'll send them even more into that state of mind. If guns are taken away, there'll be bigger problems to worry about. Gun Laws are not as strict as they can be. Felons cant have them but im sure with all the money the goverment has they can find better ways to physco analyze people now. Theres ways to prevent these things from happening, but taking away our guns isnt the way....it'll only make us sitting ducks. Think about how you would feel if someone broke into your house and raped your wife or girlfriend, or daughter....well if she had a little 38 special close by, that wouldnt happen. A woman cant overpower a man. There was a story not to long ago about 2 men tryna break into a house and the woman was on the phone with 911 while it was happening, she asked the dispatcher if she could shoot them and the man said you do whatever you have to do to protect that baby. And guess what, she murked his ass and the other little punk went off running. Guns are the great equalizer, people who mis use them need to be gotten rid of, not the guns. I for one, will make sure my entire family is strapped and i will also make sure they understnad how to use them. And first time i see my son showing off tryna be cool in front of his friends, i'll whoop his ass to make sure he knows how much i love him, and DONT want to loose him over some stupid ish

Lord Lee, I love you and all, but you are way off base here. The right of the people to keep and bear arms is just as relevant today as in 1776 or 1789. One of the only other countries to have such freedom is Switzerland, and it is no accident that Switzerland has never been invaded or suffered under despotic rule. Not even Hitler wanted to take on 5 million pissed off swiss with guns, and who knew how to use them.
We are our own first line of defense when it comes to protecting our families and ourselves. The day that evil is eliminated from all human hearts forever is the day that such protection will no longer be needed, and we can shoot at targets in peace and safety.
Fact: Guns are banned in Washington, D.C. Washington D.C. is the murder capitol of the world, per capita.
Fact: Guns are banned in New York City. New York City is right behind Washington D.C. in terms of criminals using guns on a disarmed public.
The solution seems to be more guns in the right hands, not just in the hands of criminals.
@ Rick: Just a thot on rate of fire: The Brown Bess musket was the assault weapon of its day, and the 2nd amendment recognized that a citizen's weapon should be on a par with that, if he/she so desired.

The debate over weapon control has been going on ever since Ogg and Ugg sat in their cave and implemented club control. You won't find their descendents anywhere, as they were clubbed by the guys in the next cave over, who fashioned illegal clubs, enslaved Ogg and Ugg, and their whole clan, and eventually destroyed them.

Maclean, leave my grandparents out of this...

The reason why Hitler did not want to take Switzerland, is that there was nothing interesting in Switzerland at that time. It was of no strategic value (just like Nieuw Amsterdam was in 1674, when the Dutch sold it to the English; Nieuw Amsterdam is the previous name of New York). On top of that, families with guns are just canon meat for a professional army. So, maclean, your first argument does not work.

To Yankee I live in London, UK and for your information Kasper Quinn I am not a she, I am a he LOL.