Gun law

First, this latest madness in Aurora, Denver is unbelievable and assaults all my sensibilities. Grief, I feel sorry for any involved.

The point of my post here is to see what you people, Americans in particular, are thinking about the right to bear arms.

Colorado is still reeling in the aftershocks of Columbine and now this. It seems this right to defend yourselves has turned against you.

Where one person, just one, can kill so many because s/he has the hardware has got to be wrong. If he was limited to knives or a baseball bat then he would have been lucky to get just one victim.

I understand the conflicting arguement of defending your family and home, where its you against the attacker, and people say the baddies will always get guns so a free American should be able to fight back, but, these mass slayings outweigh this in my mind. Your police have guns and they aren't slow to use them, I know. Crime with guns is severely punished by the courts, its like the difference of 5 years and life.

There must be some whose opinions are being swayed toward greater gun control by each and every of these all too frequent events. How many more need happen before the balance of opinion changes as you must realise it eventually will. Why wait, lets rein it in now.

Good luck on that one Crafty. I see what your saying, but then I'm from where your at where fear will not get the better of us to the point where the risks not to, out way the consequences to do. Hence why we don't carry guns, knives or baseball bats.
Do you think it is fear that motivates someone to carry a gun? Or do you think its the feeling of power? Maybe both?
Either way......once its apart of you, finding a reason to get rid of it can be near on impossible to come across. That is until you are directly effected by it (Which will ultimately happen as thats part of the consequence with which is sacrificed to carry the gun in the first place) but by then it will be too late.

Power disguised as Fear is a difficult thing to defeat.

Sorry Crafty I don't agree.

Had I been there trying to watch a movie he'd have either gotten one more, or maybe a lot less.

Either way, I don't believe you will stop people from constructing weapons designed to "take out" large numbers of people if that is their intent.

Besides, IMHO someone who knows how to use a knife, in a crowd like that, could have killed a lot more although there wouldn't have been many wounded.

I will have to admit everyone that was there must feel the same as you since Colorado does have a concealed carry law.

Simple fact is the Police can not get there in time to stop something like this. If nobody on site is prepared to do it then it's simply going to escalate.

You left out one reason nix, a feeling of responsibility for my own protection, those I love and many around me.

99.9% of the time I am never farther than arms reach from a firearm. In fact the only time that is not the case is when I work in areas where carrying a firearm is not allowed by law (courthouses, schools etc.).

As a civilian have I ever "needed" it?.

No not yet however, on many occasions although they didn't know why, I did have the option of staying around to call the police and may have prevented something serious.

I already know the answer to the biggest question, and that is given the chance can I, and will I if necessary use it.

The only time "fear" enters the equation is the thought that one day I just might have to actually use it.

the right to bear arms isn't entirely based on self-defense, is it? we may not have an emediate need for the second amendment that way, but perhaps that concept its self keeps it that way?

i mean the right to bear arms, and voting are pretty much the same thought, we have the right to change our government, and in over 200 hundred years we haven't had the need to use force, because voting has, over all, worked. but root strength of the people must not be infringed...

Nix, carrying guns here as you know is generally limited to a youth culture of gang members who are pressured to be 'one of the lads' and this I feel sure causes a lot of fear among them. They deal with this with a large helping of bravado. I'm sort of talking about a different scenario here, where most anyone can get their hands on fearsome weapons (not modified WWII replicas) and just 'flip', for the want of a better word.

And yankee, this distinction applies to what you understand of Nixs post and mine too. If you were to be a person trained or experienced to deal with a situation like this then I would be so glad you were there, and I would be backing you up immediately, unfortunatly if you were a have-a-go-hero the chances are you would now be lying in chalk.

This cinema was full of regular Joes going to see a film, not a briefing of special forces.

You dont need guns to protect yourselves at home when guns arent generally available. Of course this is a generalisation, but it is the way it is here and seems to work for us.

I'm wondering if people are beginning to think that maybe it is time to stop this now.

Mass murder - coming soon to a shopping mall near you.

If it is a crime to own a gun, then only criminals own guns.

It really doesn't matter who you are or what your training may be although I highly recommend anyone that chooses to carry a firearm to get more than the mandatory training.

Simple fact is one on one if you are unaware of your surroundings you'll probably be laying in "chalk".

Someone that knows how to use a knife and is prepared to use it can move 25 feet and have you bleeding to death in just under 4 seconds.

Personally I want the ability to use what time I may have left to try and prevent it from happening to someone else.

Protecting yourself is a mindset and a firearm is only one tool and in many cases not even necessary one.

In fact in a situation like I mentioned above, if you don't kill your attacker then not only are you dead but they've got your firearm to use next time.

It's not about being a "hero" it's about protecting yourself and those you care about. And quite frankly without options the circle of people you care enough about and are willing to try and protect becomes very limited.

If you think the police can protect you from all the evil in this world 100% of the time then you are sadly mistaken.

Most of the time it's going to be a "regular Joe" in a situation like that if anything is done about it. While many are "capable", many for various reasons will not be.

Carrying a firearm and especially using it, puts you directly responsible for your actions.

If you don't want the responsibility of carrying one don't. However don't ever abdicate the defense of yourself or loved ones to someone else it's not going to work.

Im sure you all heard of the 17 people in Tuscaloosa Alabama earlier this week at the Coppertop bar. This is my hometown, and i been in that bar. No one was killed but it just happened then this happens. Last year a ef5 hit and killed many people right here in my city. Alot of things have been happening here. The right to bear arms is tricky. For one, i agree with Crafty but i believe in our rights to bear arms. I come from a place where crime is high. Everyone has guns. And they use them. Just a month ago a friend of mine was killed by a stray bullet that was meant for a 19 year old Crip in the apartment next to him. The shooter got the apartments mixed up. Sometimes you need a gun to defend yourself. I carry a gun with me everytime i leave the house. The thing is i would never kill anyone unless im defending myself. Not that i havent thought about it, with all the child rapist out here that also populates my city but i guess the point im tryna make is, its not the guns that kill people but people that kill people. If now with a gun, then something else. With the internet anyone crazy enough could easily make bombs and other weapons. I agree that if there were no guns then there may be less of these kinda crimes but if someones crazy enough to kill people like that, then they would be crazy enough to built nail bombs and other things. We have guns so another country who may want to invade us may think twice when they realize that every citizen behind every door may be waiting locked and loaded.

And honestly, if the goveremnt ever tried taking away our guns....well lets just say here in the south there would probally be another civil war. People love their guns down here.

Letting people own guns is absolutely ridiculous! America is a backward country!

Letting people own guns is absolutely ridiculous!

America is an uncivilized empire!

Certain people need shooting...

Stop messing up my thread with inanities.

Do you have anything constructive to say?

I have many weapons.....hehehe

Pity you wouldnt have a clue how to use them.

Just like most American gun owners who have a gun in the drawer that hasnt been fired for 10 years.

I enjoy shooting at the ranges and outside city limits. Its a release of tension. If the country never gave us the rights i would agree to not give us the rights. but now that theres guns everywhere. its too easy for criminals and killers to get them so therefore i beleive regular sane people need them for protection agaisnt them. but if i was king of a real country, i would only give guns to the military. Taking away the rights to own them now would just take guns from the people who legally own them, leaving us no protection from the ones who carry and use them for evil. I mean its just like this Geaorge Zimmerman thing thats sweeping the country. Rather he was attacked or not, he could had just got his ass beat, and the boy would be alive now. but since he had a gun he took a young mans life. If there were no guns, that wouldnt had happened. And that was by someone who legally owned a gun, and almost got away with it

I don't doubt you are right about that Crafty however it's probably a regional thing and has to do with opportunity and a place to shoot.

I don't personally know anyone that owns a firearm that doesn't shoot it at least once a year. I am however sure they are out there.

I don't shoot everyone I own often (I own many) I do however shoot every firearm I carry every 30 days as I cycle through old ammunition and buy new.

The big reason for that is I've yet to find ammunition that can stand up to the "stress" of being carried around much longer than that without some form of malfunction.

It does you no good if it won't go "BANG".

I do however have multiple places to shoot including a membership at an indoor range about a mile from the house.

A tool of any kind is next to worthless if you do not know how to use it. Which now that I mentioned that, very few patrol officers (police) are proficient in the use of their firearms.

There are exceptions to that rule of course but I've shot against many in local law enforcement that are not what I would call even a "decent" marksman with a pistol.

That's on a target range with no stress. Not the type I would want to rely on.

Big reason is they don't fire their weapons anymore than necessary. Ammunition costs and anything past what is necessary to "qualify" comes out of their own pockets.

Face it most jobs in law enforcement do not pay that much.

Both of you make very good points, and I can see the enjoyment, and yes the neccessity, to practice on shooting ranges or out of city limit places where its cool.

There's a recentish case here in the UK of Tony Martin, a farmer who was burgled several times, finally had enough and shot the intruder with his licensed shot gun. He got life, later reduced to 5 years though another very similar case involving an unlicensed shotgun saw the farmer walking free.

This kind of gun ownership is another ballgame, pest control, people who insist in getting pleasure in shooting great creatures (including our monarchy )etc.

Guns are just so undefendable from in my small experience. I mean, some bullets went right through the walls of this theatre into the next door theater.

Look, I'm not some anti-gun fanaticist, nor am I a fully paid up member of the Gun Lobby, I am just trying to guage the sway of opinion in the aftermath of Aurora.

There is a simple saying that 'Guns dont kill people, People kill people'. So just as you couldnt blame the airplanes, car bombs, antique land mines etc... that kill thousands of people every year, neither can you blame the gun.

The 'problem' here is in reality only a symptom of a much larger issue. Not the least of which is the total disrespect for human life. In fact, the movie that was being previewed is a perfect example of that.

I do agree 100% that SOMETHING needs to be done! Things have most certainly 'gotten out of hand'! But the problem must be tackled at the source, not simply trying to fix a symptom of a greater problem.

Well you defintly have a point. Theres should be a big time increase in gun control laws but thats so expensive. I mean putting metal detecters everywhere from convient stores, theatures, and schools ( Schools needing them most ) then placing an officer or someone else there would run into billions of dollars and be more insulting than what the TSA is doing in airports. Other than things like that, theres already strict gun laws but they cant prepare for something like this. And even if they did put metal detecotrs up everywhere...it wouldnt do much. The guy here in my city, sprayed the bar from outside of it. He must had been a terrible shot cus no one was killed thank God. But the point being, i dont guess theres anything we can do to prepare when sumone goes crazy like that. But i defintly think schools should do the metal detecter thing and have very strict rules as to who can get in and out. Columbine was a tragedy, our children should be protected the most.

Yes Serpent, like with Columbine, the people bullying those kids sending them off the deep end should had been fixed before it got to that. Children can be cruel....i used to be. Now that im older and more mature i feel bad for alot of the things that i did. i've also been on the other end of it. And i can relate to the people being bulleyed that enough is enough. But thing is, a real man fights with his hands.

Well Kasper saying that a real man fights with his hands is easy.

I say a man shouldn't have to fight.

The only "name" you could call me that would hurt my feelings would have to have some basis in truth. In that case I already know it and if I don't like it, I need to effect a change.

If I go someplace where I don't like someone. I'll leave.

If I go into a place where someone doesn't like me, once that's known, again I'll leave.

I will walk away from just about anything if given the chance. I won't impose the threat of physical violence on anyone however, I won't take it from anyone either.

I shouldn't have to, neither should anyone else.

If it is a crime to own a gun, then only criminals own guns. Scarlet

But if it is a crime to own a gun, than only the government and the criminals will own guns, so than how do people protect themselves from both the criminals and the government.

guns are kinda complicated in my view, because if one person has a gun he can go kill a bunch of people like what happened this morning. some peoples solution to this is that everybody should have a gun because if somebody else in the theater had a gun they would have shot the guy before he shot more people. but the problem with that is that if more people have guns then the occurrence of incidents like this will increase. some other people say more gun control would reduce this, which it probably would but its hard to stop one crazy person from getting a gun and going crazy. and when that one person does go crazy since nobody else close by has a gun that person would be able to kill more people before cops arrive. so i think the only way to solve things like this is if we severely limit who can have a gun but then the NRA would go crazy. the other option is if we ban civilian gun ownership but that would be unconstitutional.

I'm sitting here contemplating the possibility of severly restricting gun licensing for personal protection and instead encouraging use of the far less fatal but very effective 'Taser'.

I agree whole heartedly with Serp but this aint going to happen for a long long time, meanwhile the murder continues. Flying planes into buildings, car bombs and land mines are all illegal, any reason why weaponry shouldn't be then?