Gun law

The people in my city actually tried to ban the police from having Tazers.

Cited cases of abuse. Luck would have it, that silly idea was quashed.

And what are more laws going to do? It's already against the law to use a firearm during the commission of a crime.

It's already against the law to modify a firearm from semi to automatic.

It's already against the law to own a firearm if you have been diagnosed as mentally ill.

In almost every situation where a firearm is used like in Colorado, someone didn't care what law was on the books.

Since there is a precedence in violent crime dropping in areas of the U.S. with concealed carry legislation.... I'd say everyone having a firearm makes more sense than taking it away from law abiding citizens that wish to own them.

One of the big con campaigns against the concealed carry law in my state was people thinking everyone would go nuts and start shooting each other.

Heck when talking with the Sheriff of my County violent crime has gone down. State wide it's gone down with a few exceptions like KC or ST Louis where murder has only stabilized but guess what .. firearms aren't the weapons of choice.


The only case in my county where a legally owned firearm was used to kill someone happened when a guy called another one up and told him he was coming over to kill him. When he hung up he immediately called the sheriff and settled down to wait.

When the man kicked in his front door and entered the house he was blown right back out. He called the Sheriff back and told him what happened and an hour or so later they showed up with the Coroner and the State Highway Patrol and did the inquest right there and no charges where filed.

It was a deputy sheriff telling me that story, I'd heard about the shooting but didn't ever get the story until then.

I can think of one in St Louis where a guy beat his wife to death for bringing him the wrong type of beer. Since he used the bottle maybe we should outlaw that ... oh wait that didn't work either

You and only you are responsible for your safety, government cannot do it. There is no law in WORLD that will save you when someone decides you are the target.

There is nothing to indicate you could even save yourself, but personally if I'm going I'll be attempting to take them with me.

It's the herd mentality talking and guess what sheep are sheep and one wolf can easily kill hundred in one night.

Been that way since the dawn of time.

Carrying a firearm is much like any tool, it gives you possible options in different situations. Options can allow you to exit a situation without harm to either yourself or anyone else.

Going into a Theater and randomly killing people is also illegal what further laws could have prevented that?

Weaponry how do you define weaponry?

Okay, I disarm myself when going into areas where firearms are not allowed like the schools and courthouses I do a lot of work in. I've never had my Parker Ball Point pen taken away and I can drive that thing through a piece of 1/4" plywood (much thicker than the skull or other spots on a human) and still fill out my work order.

I would rather live in total anarchy than live in a society with a government so strong it had a snowball's chance in hell of protecting me from all the crazies out there.

You can't control the crazies by taking away someone's legal right to firearms.

It hasn't worked in Australia, Great Britain, or any other country I could name.

lol the criminals will always have guns THATS WHAT MAKES THEM CRIMINALS if everyone was armed in America and was trained howto use it how many bank robberys or shootings would there be exactly very few and the insane people that tried it would quickly be neutralized we probably would not even need a police force look at all the examples Australia China Washington DC in Australia they spent billions to get rid of weapons only to have crime rocket something like 400% in China an oppressive government took over and killed millions same in the Soviet union in Washington DC handgun ban was enacted and crime with guns went up you cant argue with the facts.....crafty the taser is a pretty pragmatic idea but I wouldn't want to be the guy fighting another guy with a gun armed with a taser they have their limits what is it 1 or 2 shots pheonix king plus 1


and also the problem with mass shootings isn't exactly the gun but rather a deep problem in our society which I find quite sad

I'm glad to see so many people understand the necessity of owning guns I truly cant understand people who say there should be more gun control why place limits on yourself and other law abiding people owning a gun is truly a victimless crime

Source: Suspect in shooting at screening of Batman movie had colored his hair red and told police he was "the Joker."

LOL If he was the joker than we should leave him hanging from a tall building for the rest of his life how short that may be just like batman did in the movie. I do not understand how anyone would shoot a little girl at the movies, let alone 12 people.

Based on the source that CNN is saying said this, this will cause many people to start questioning if we should ban movies like batman. Never sacrifice your freedom for a little more security.

for those who said that if they were their that they would have shot the guy, firstly according to reports the guy had on bullet proof vest and body armor, so yeah you might have shoot him but it wouldn't have done anything before he sees you and then shoots you. so unless we want everybody in america to wear bullet proof vests and body armor every where they go, because they are scared to be shot we need extremely strict gun control. because an america were everybody is in constant fear of being shot doesn't seam like a free society to me. so yeah never sacrifice your freedom for a little more security, but when your dead your not that free, are you?

mmmm guns....

This is just anougher ploy by ur government to disarm the public take away ur rights and pull the wool over ur eyes, even if your guns were registered its never the registered users whom commit these crimes if you where to commit a crime with a gun u use a black market weapon and no matter what the government does there will allways be blackmarket weapons.

As much as I do not like guns, I do not think more gun control would be the answer.

It's been said many times in this thread...criminals and crazies are going to find a way to have guns.

As an American, ordinary citizens should be able to own and carry guns in my opinion.

Kasper Quinn made a good point also; if the government in the US tried to take peoples guns away in parts of the country like here in the South, there certainly would be another Civil War.

i agree with that statement but again if one guy goes into a crowded area and starts throwing tear gas or some type of chemical that can slow can slow reaction and on top of that, that person is heavily protected its going to be hard to stop him even if you also have a gun. but then is everybody going to start going out in the public heavily armored, with guns, and gas masks? that doesn't seem like a free society. and you can't ban all guns because that unconstitutional and extremely hard to enforce. so sadly things like this are just part of life now.

As the daughter of a police officer, I have always stood on the side that people should have the right to carry a firearm for self defense purposes. My dad always carried his gun, on duty and off duty. My thoughts have always been that if you make carrying guns illegal, your good, law-abiding people will be the ones adhering to the law and left defenseless, while your criminals will still manage to have them or get them. So I don't know what the answer is. I just know that people should be able to live life, go to movies without the fear of being massacred. I think we need to look at warning signs of people who may be mentally disturbed and get involved. There had to be some indication to the parents, friends, someone that this young man was not quite right in his thinking. I am stunned this happened. These types of senseless mass shootings seem to be becoming more and more popular over here in the states (in schools, public gatherings). My fear are the idiot copycats....

So the guy had on a bullet proof vest what difference does that make?

Okay so the first two only hurt like hell, don't think for an instant it won't still bruise the heck out of you or in some cases even stop your heart. Oh yes there are ceramic plates you can put in some to deal with that but I doubt he was wearing one.

So you realize the guy has on a vest, there is always the head, groin, legs, and other areas that are rarely attempted because of the smaller target they present.

Still they are high probability areas for someone that does remain familiar with their tools. In some cases it might be reliant upon which firearm someone happens to be carrying at the time.

Face it in the summer when clothing is lighter I carry a pistol which is not accurate past 9 yards.

In the winter it's much easier to conceal something larger and I generally carry two, both the smaller one mentioned above and one of several which are accurate for me out to much longer ranges than 35 yards. Not sniping equipment however more than adequate for attempting a shot on one of the areas mentioned above.

So a lot depends on what the circumstances are however, the basic goals in a situation like that for me would always be the same:

1. Make sure those who are with me are as safe as possible.

2. Make sure I'm as safe as possible.

3. See what can be done for anyone else.

You never know, I've only one real experience with that type of situation and it's been more than 3 decades. I'm older, my reaction time is slower and I'm much more realistic about my chances of coming out in one piece, if at all.

That's why when I practice, I do so simulating as well as possible (obviously I can't simulate the effect massive trauma has on the body), the loss of either arm, and either eye. I've taken classes from people considered experts in the field, I'm serious and don't look at it as a game.

Would it do me any good? There is only one way to find out and that, is something I hope never happens. Even if you've been able to perform once, while the chances are greater esp. if you train, you do not know for sure you will perform twice.

However, if I am able to accomplish the first two goals .. or even the first then I've done what I always intended to do.

If you don't like firearms or don't want to be held responsible for your actions while carrying one, DON'T. If you want to learn to protect yourself, there are other methods and classes you can receive training in.

On the flip side of that coin, if you wish to delegate your safety to unarmed or non-lethal methods, the government, or really anyone or anything else by all means do so.

However, don't expect everyone to be like minded. Every life is precious, especially mine, particularly to me, and I have no intention of simply letting someone take it, or damage it's quality through a beating.

well the first two bullets wouldn't go in, and with tear gas or some type of irritant in the air its going to be pretty hard to aim.

So if I really have to say it, screw everyone else, in that case I keep him away from me and mine. Even with a vest containing ceramic plates, something almost 1/2" in diameter bouncing off his chest would encourage him to seek something easier.

At that point my ultimate goal would have been met.

This started out as how all firearms should be illegal started by someone living in a country where they are illegal and it's not made any difference in violent crime.

I know your opinion, you know mine. This is one subject where we will always disagree

It doesnt matter cause the law will never be changed and if it does there will be serious consequences. The world is only gonna get worse. Im afraid of snipers. Like that guy in D.C, hell if more people took up that hobby you'll see complete terror. Cus the people doing the sniping can get away with it if there careful enough. Planes are too protected for anyone to take over again. When the Snipers increase ( Like crazy people playing video games sniping nazi's when they get older and snap )that'll be true terror, think about it.

wow thanks Quinn now I cant live in the city..... and Quinn the law can always be changed we have the second ammendment but idk is it even possible to have a gun in NYC a place of pretty high crime id say the second ammendment is being infringed right there and I like your point Yankee especially the last paragraph I'm gonna use that simetime

Guns equal power. For those who use guns comes with consequences, i hope you realize that. It's not the gun you need to be fear off, it's the soul behind the person body is what you need to be feared from, not the flesh.

Anthony.

It doesn't take rocket science to work it out!

Made it illegal to own firearms!

What do Americans expect by making fire arms so easily available. Of course there going to be lots of shootings.

Yankee,

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This started out as how all firearms should be illegal started by someone living in a country where they are illegal and it's not made any difference in violent crime. <!-/Quote-!>

I do hope that wasnt aimed at me.

First off I have specifically said that I am not advocating either view. At least twice.

Secondly, I lived and worked in some pretty violent parts of Los Angeles for lots of years, and owned illegal firearms and have been shot at. I have a reasonable understanding of the issues here.

@Steve Ryan, you are talking nonsense Sir, this man had completely legal firearms and ammunition.
Kiss said it right that someone must have realised his state of mind, hell, he just jacked in his college, lived in a condo so had close neighbours, and had time to build a what is reported as complex booby trap system in his apartment. Someone must have wondered... but we tend to not get involved, isolated in our own little circle of existance.

Lastly, I would argue that in the UK the cases of murder or even attempted murder are far less, proportionally, than the US, with our laws outlawing guns. Of course its not non-existant, but I was wondering if maybe Americans were thinking that its getting out of hand now and some serious effort needs to be made to kerb it.

more people are killed in the USA every year by drunk drivers than by guns but no one wants to take away our right to drink.

or our right to drive cars. It's the cars that kill people, you know, especially SUV's, as the media is so fond of reporting. (sarcasm alert).

Some observations: (no sarcasm): I myself own many firearms, from ancient to modern. I enjoy shooting, collecting, and hunting. I deplore what yet another brainless psychopathic bastard has done; but remember, 99.99% of gun owners are law abiding citizens and have never comitted a violent crime in their life. I am a strong supporter of the 2nd amendment; it is the one amendment that safeguards all the other liberties and rights we have. Every tyranny and police state has been immediately precede by a disarming of the citizenry. The fact that the average citizen can protect himself from the evil intent of others (be it criminals or would-be tyrants) is something vital to individual liberty and the ultimate freedom of society as a whole. A couple of towns here in the U.S. passed ordinances requiring that every household have a firearm for defense. Crime in these towns dropped to near zero overnight. It would seem that the solution is more guns, not fewer. If everyone was really fed up with crime, then burglars, rapists, would-be murderers, child abusers, etc., would soon cease their ways or else die out, once enough of them were shot to doll rags by mothers and fathers protecting their home, hearth, and family. If people had been armed at that theater, this lunatic would never have got off more than one or two rounds, I guarantee you.
As has been stated, the vast majority of crimes involving guns are not perpetrated by law-abiding citizens. One example of this is the Class 3 license, which allows one to own a fully automatic weapon. In all the years that this restriction has existed, thousands of ordinary people have legally owned full-auto weapons, and only ONE legally owned weapon was used in a crime, and that person was a police officer who went rogue.
The right to keep and bear arms was specifically put in the Bill of Rights to avoid tyranny foreign or domestic, plain and simple, and to defend the other rights, as I mentioned before. Hunting, etc., was important, but ancillary to the main issue.It keeps the radicals (on both sides of the aisle) in check; no one will be able to stage a coup a la Nazi Germany, for instance. It also furthers the standard of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness; by being able to protect yourself and your family, one is less at the mercy of the criminal element.
For myself, I am a "righteous citizen" love my country, and I echo the words of the late, great Charlston Heston: "they will take my gun when they pry it out of my cold, dead fingers".
As far as I am concerned, this was an incident of terrorism, the scum-sucker was a %$#&&^*@ terrorist, and should be treated as such. If the government uses this tragedy and act of terrorism to further restrict the citizenry, and they will certainly try,then it is a victory for the terrorists. What kind of message will it send if terrorists of any stripe can see that all they have to do is commit more terrorism and the government will react in such a way as to make it SAFER for the terrorists?

Crafty,

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but we tend to not get involved, isolated in our own little circle of existance<!-/Quote-!>

Exactly and a large part of concealed training both the basics, which in all but one state you must receive to legally concealed carry, and advanced is paying attention to your surroundings so you don't get into a situation where you have to use a firearm.

Let me give you just two prime examples of situations I've seen in the years I've been carrying a firearm.

I was walking into a local grocery store in broad daylight when a older lady was coming out pushing her cart full of groceries.

A guy was following her and as I walked past I hear him tell her "give me some money bitch".

I immediately got on the cellphone to the cops and walked over and escorted her to her car and saw her drive away.

Now in this case I would have had no need for a firearm as there was no question in my mind I could take him without one whether he had a weapon or not. But the point is, I always pay closer attention to my surroundings these days, and I'm much more willing to become involved.

And guess what .. 30 mins later the cops called me back and asked if they needed to send a patrol hell I was in a completely different town by then.

Another time I'm coming home from a trip to St Louis and about 3 AM pulled into a gas station to get some coffee and use the restroom.

As I come out of the bathroom there are 4 neo-nazi skin heads screaming at the store clerk who was of middle eastern descent.

Now these guys would have been a threat and while they did not have them out could see at least two had knives.

I walked to the back of the store to put several isles between me and them yet, where I could still see everything and once again got on the phone to the cops.

As one grabbed the clerk by the front of his shirt I suppose he turned enough to finally see me there talking on the phone. He screamed "WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING".

I just calmly told him I was talking to the police. In this case they hauled ass out of there about 3 min. before the cops showed up.

Guess what they stabbed and killed another store clerk in Kansas City (123 miles down the road) the next night. The video cameras from the two stores was used in court, I was summoned but didn't have to testify.

I can go on and on about different situations where being trained to carry allowed me first even notice and being armed allowed me luxury of becoming involved.

I have no idea if me or my cellphone had any bearing on the outcome of any of the situations I've seen. I only know they didn't turn out bad for anyone at that time.

I also have "a reasonable understanding of the issues". The biggest one I see is armed law abiding citizens have got to have a positive effect on crime.

I stay armed to protect myself and my loved ones, that doesn't mean me being armed has no benefit to others.

i have spent a few of my youth summers in aurora, and probably have been to that theater too. aurora is a nice community back then in the 80s, people are nice there too.

regarding the subject of this thread, america is a society that seems to be stuck not knowing which direction to go. it was a nation founded on the principles of freedom, which were firearms that got them away from the mighty british empire.

in any society that those who are given the right to bear arms to protect others do not carry out that duty so well, then of course the general people will start to not have faith in them. simply that the a large part of the law enforcement in certain parts of the country have fail to do their duties. the population do not trust their government or those put in charge of firearms....so there we have it that ordinary people need to protect themselves.

it's difficult to give advantages to one segment of the society, such as the criminals while expect the other segment to do nothing (law bidding citizens).

americans are used to trying to bring solutions to the effects, rather than fix the root of the problem. and in america, money talks and everything else follow....that's why so difficult to get to the root of the problem.

a great society would either be that every citizen has guns or no citizen has gun. to be in between, it's impossible to have a peaceful society.

as human beings, aren't we not evolutionary creatures and "survival of the fittest" the rule of the existence?

IMO, it's either all have guns or none has gun !!!
also i'm king/queen of the country, none of my citizens will have guns. all my law enforcement will be highly prestige and carry out their duties, and any stray will be execution of such peron.

Yankee, all you say makes good sense to me. Its just a shame that most dont have your training or skills or awareness. Please dont assume that every armed citizen could react to a situation as level headed as you have/do. I fear that most would accidently shoot the clerk rather than his attackers. Just watch the movies, as you will know, it is near impossible to aim/shoot with this Mr.cool gangster style of holding the piece sideways, and a nervous finger on a trigger...nah, if more had your training...but I started this topic about Americans in general, not people with your particular skill set.

Respectfully, Crafty.

most of the people I know who own guns are very confident knowledgable and serious about there firearms I'm sure not everyone is but hopefully they aren't the ones carrying them around with them all day