Tried the new war game yet? (Kebir Blue)

Contrary to popular opinion, I think we can all agree that Tom really cares. You can't ask for much more.

And a damn good idea BC.

As an edit, i meant to suggest president countries use a max of 50 forts. Wasnt just c3's as i had mentioned previously.

So, I just took a C3. What was once just boring is now costly and incredibly boring.

Wow Really Joe?

I agree.

Blame Dufus

We call him Whiteboy

Vote to repeal on the public voting.

Good idea Blue and I like your idea too BC although I really don't think inactive raiding is as big of an issue as it's being made out to be.

As far as level awards, the entire point isn't just the rewards, I know it's hard to see right now with the system up to level 4, but if/when levels up to 25 are implemented it will be about a challenge, about honor and most importantly, about competition. People already compete, or at least used to (for no real reason), on war ranks which we all know are meaningless. To achieve a high war level there will be a challenge involved and accomplishing it will mean something.

Also, part of this was W3C agreeing to make sure that workers weren't constantly needed at the rate they are now so that we all aren't having to constantly take and strip c3's to fix worker issues which is quite annoying. The only reason there should be to take c3's in the future is to expand an empire (which is not the normal way vets expand their empire) or to set up on an opponent. Tom said they understood that the issue with workers would have to be taken care of under this system which in and of itself is a big gain for all of us.

I understand everyone wants to criticize the downside of any change, but give it some time and let it get implemented completely and the kinks get worked out before you declare it a failure/waste of time/death of the game/etc. Feedback is necessary for improvement, but overt negativity doesn't help anyone...especially when it refers to features that have not yet been implemented (the challenge/respect of higher war levels) or that have had time to take place (more players/feds/etc).

Idiot, shut up, know your place. If you have to beg people to vote on something and are still getting barely any results, it's pretty sad.

Add something constructive or take your trolling elsewhere.

Maybe the kid thinks he is still on campus?

LMAO the Federation Forum is really jumping with all these players asking for membership!

Last time fed posted on the forum was Sept 9th. I though they would be way active thanks to Whiteboy.

I see nothing here to celebrate. Just more people wanting to leave becuase of Whiteboy... again.

You talk about credibility, like you have any? This coming from the one telling WGC we are attacking you to protect you from the likes of Wendy. LMAO oxymoron much. Pun intended.

Constructive... ok let me think.

Repeal Whiteboy's War Engine on the Public Voting Section.

%100 constructive. Maybe half the players will stay if the Gms listen.

I dunno, maybe WB wants to play this game by himself.

Mr Willard please post here when you have made the adjustments and I will try another C3. I know you are sick of hearing this but there really needs to be some small reward for taking a C3 of your own level or it needs to be made easier. There will still be reasons to take C3's other than leveling up.

I had an intresting experience last night with a level 4 C3 on WG.

First of all only 15 int wings and 8 heli wings. The garrisons were the same. Two attack and bomber wings made light work of the air d. The garrisons were not much problem either. Only 1 or 2 bomber loss per garrison.

But what was odd was that war started on May 25. In less than 5 min the air d was down, so I began hitting the cap and city garrisons. The country shared borders with Eastern Diamondback which I used to paint. Bushmaster was the primary attacking country. When I made sf to paint I went back to country and the date was May 26th. The capitol had moved and changed names from Shearing Hill to Keely and respawned as did all the cities and int wings. So I had to make another off wing to finish them off again.

Anyway the whole thing took a GRUELING 29 whole long excruciating MINUTES. Furthermore my losses were 2730 bombers only, but remember I had to take the air d and garrisons down 2 times. So it avg approx 91 bombers per 400 int's. Typical results.

After the war was won there were NO air wings, NO land defense divisions as the target list indicated. Only some banged up garrisons.

The first time I hit all def wings, then all garrisons in cities, the WI finally moved when I destroyed the cap. The second time thru as I was painting the WI moved rather quickly. I only had to destroy the cap, cities and 2 corps to get the WI to 0.

So there were a few issues, but Im sure they will be cleared up. Any new toy has some bugs to fix.

I give this experience (other than having to do it 2 times) an A!

Jason (Serpent)

wb, what do you do if you've got all the countries you want and the only reason to attack a c3 is for the swag? before the change, it didn't amount to much but it sure made those hot summer afternoons bearable. furthermore, i don't have any problems with my neighbors and don't want to attack any of them. since i typically sit at the top of the sand box in the standings, if the war game isn't changed to give a monetary incentive, then i'll have to just eliminate all my countries other than the main and clip coupons until my membership runs out.

Parsifal - I've noted multiple times in my posts that it was never my understanding that the c3's would have nothing in them, my understanding was that they would have approximately equal assets in them when they were taken over as what it would cost to take them efficiently. If taken ultra-efficiently, then there would be room for profit. In Tom's posts he has stated that they are looking into that as it was an unintended consequence (the c3's respawning like normal c3's once taken over).

wb, i understand. but the only reason to make that kind of trade is to expand the empire. a "little" profit with the risk involved is not worth the effort. the problem is not whether i can take the country. it's whether it makes economic sense. if i go into business or buy a stock, i don't expect to just break even or make a "little" profit. my expectation is that i will make a substantial profit. so, the risk reward ratio needs to be adequate (at least 5-1 if efficiently taken and more if ultra-efficiently taken).

that is not to say that the concept that you and others including w3 have conceived is not valid, just that the rewards need to be adequate to play the different parts of the game. i'm hoping that the tweekings will make this a solid part of the game.

I agree with Parsifal 100%. I was not trying to say the whole new concept of war levels, etc should necessarily be abandoned but was complaining about the difficulty and lack of reward when taking a C3, a C3 of your own war level to be more specific.

"that is not to say that the concept that you and others including w3 have conceived is not valid, just that the rewards need to be adequate to play the different parts of the game. i'm hoping that the tweekings will make this a solid part of the game."- Parsifal

i totally agree, i think the extra difficulty of taking c3s is fun, but their also needs to be a reward... a one time gc award for leveling up, just isn't enough.

i mean in the event that some one levels up, and ends up loosing a war against another player, if they try to take c3's to rebuild, its only cutting into the few resources the player has left, if they even have enough to take a c3 (considering what is promised for the higher c3 levels,) meaning, a player may just end up shooting themselves in the foot by leveling up

their is of course going to a be allot of judgement of what level this or that player should be... but staying a level, that allows a player to fight competitively, and have reserves in case of loosing...

i mean, currently, the way, "most," players build up... is they get their one time level awards, buy pop, build corps, then save up the pittance of profit they get for registrations... or they swipe their card.

so now think, a player pays their membership, levels up, buys pop, builds corps, and buys weapons. looses a war. and now has no way of rebuilding, they've already resieved their level awards... and the fire power they needed to take c3s has been destroyed, (yes you can save some in you main, but its begining to sound like you're going to need a full on ws to take some of the really high level c3,) so this player, has effectively painted themselves into a corner. and for most players, it means their only option is to either put their main in autopilot, or swipe their card.

There is a lot of 'if' in all of these scenarios, we can all come up with some scenario where whatever system there is will not work but that isn't necessarily productive. As far as the 'if' someone were at a high level and were wiped out, you gave the scenario in the old system that people level up to buy population, mil assets, etc and then if they get wiped out, well then at least there are cheap c3's they can start over with. But cheap c3's will not buy them more population or mil assets...it's not as if the old system was SO much more conducive to rebuilding, that player would always have little recourse but to swipe to rebuild if they hadn't already built up a large GC savings account. I get that there is a difference in the cost to take the c3 at that level, but if those costs are offset by assets in the c3 itself, then everyone is in pretty much exactly the same place as they were. This is another argument which seems like a red herring to me as are most arguments that are VERY specific scenarios which do not occur often.

As far as taking c3's being 'highly profitable', it wasn't highly profitable before, why would it be now? The system should be set up such that taking a c3 provides for some profit if done efficiently just as the old system was.

On a greater point, I hear so much from everyone about how substantial profits must be made to: pay for registration, pay for war protection, maintain an empire, etc. or one must 'swipe' their card. Do any of you give any thought to the game actually being profitable? Is there some reason you believe you're entitled to play a game which provides you with countless hours of entertainment for free? If so, how exactly do you expect W3C to make money to improve systems, monitor forums and respond to issues? Even bigger, we do all know that the war engine itself is pretty outdated and could use a complete revamp to make it more efficient, reduce clicking, make more sense in general. I hear many speak about this but no one is willing to actually put their own money into the game so that something that could happen...it seems like such a contradiction.

Everyone...the game is dieing out...I don't see how anyone can argue that point. The reason things have gotten to this point is in large part due to it being completely controlled by a very few players who have only their own and maybe their closest friends interests at heart and the worst part about it is, those players for the most part aren't contributing anything financially to the game as they have huge GC accounts, econ slaves which pay for themselves plus more or war slaves which suck up assets from the weak. It's time for all of us who actually enjoy this game to think about what we can do to improve upon it's condition instead of continuing along the same selfish lines that have gotten us to this point.

I know some will argue that the game is outdated and thus players just aren't interested after they've checked it out, if that is the case, then the game will die no matter what we do. I happen to believe that this is still just as good of a format for a game as any other but the problem is the status quo, the lack of a challenge, the lack of competition. Those of you who have been around for a while know that there used to be ALOT more competition in this game and that competition was MOSTLY based on war between individuals or federations. There are threads from 2 years ago where one fed finally overtook another in size in the Fed Stats and there was congratulations to them and it was a real source of pride for them and a let down for the fed that was now 2nd. Does anyone care now? Doesn't seem like it to me, the competition is gone from this game. Everyone is just trying to figure out how to keep their own stuff or even worse, keep their own stuff safe while taking stuff from others. The natural defense when a war breaks out is to first assess your opponent, then, if you can win you take their stuff, if you can't, you whine about it as if war is immoral. No competition.

It's time to bring back some competition, that was the point of this idea. Is it implemented perfectly right now? No. Does it need tweaking? Of course. Has it even been ROLLED OUT COMPLETELY? No...all you can see now is the possible downside because the upside doesn't even exist. Give it some time and try to look at it from the perspective of improving the game by bringing in new people, giving them a system to compete in and reinventing the war game so that people actually want to play this game again. That will create new markets and players for those of us who have been around for a long time, we'll always figure out a way to make our money...give it some time.

Whiteboy you aren't conducive to the game. You are a spoiled punk B*TCH who cried wheeeeeeee all the way home. You need to watch how you talk to Women and everyone else on the forum. Calling someone a bitch doesn't make you cool. Maybe where you are from it does. You need to grow the F*CK up you F*cking pussy and keep the forums clean. You just f*ucked up the game for everyone else. Your changes suck, and judging by how you carry yourself on the forum, you F*cking suck too. So shut the f*ck up. You had your chance and you f*cked it up. You aren't a game maker, you are a game spoiler.

I'd expect to be banned from the forum for this, but I guess we can all play by your rule. So F*ck You Whiteboy.

I wonder who BunnyFace is???

Your Mom?

Does it Matter?

My mom dont play SC. If she did I would prolly dec war on her!

Simple question!

LOL says a lot.

I not sure how anyone can say the game has been ruined due to recent changes. Simcountry has been on its ass for a long while.Everyone has contributed to its slump, not one persons suggestions.
As i said in an earlier post, i thought the scenario played out well.

If ppl bothered to look at some of the products left in these c3's,you may just be suprised at the value.

I have lost count of the ppl that have entered chat and asked for advice.....tell a new player to have just enough weapons to lvl up and concentrate on making ur country profitable, falls on deaf ears. So e1 starts to war,decs,then finds they havent a clue. They then come back to chat, advice is still the same.

My point..we have game docs,they explain econ,weapons,how to run a country...does anyone read these things,NO.do they take advice,NO.
Yet e1 wants to complain.

When i first started i learnt econ then war.The cash u make is what makes you able to war.Either that or you raid ppl.

Vets and new players alike...c3's arent there to pay for your game

wb, to the contrary, taking c3's would result in a 15-1 profit margin. without changes,which i know are coming, you can only recoup about 600-900b with an outlay of about 2t. that doesn't make sense. as to why the game is dieing, consider each round of adverse changes to the game, starting with cutting back weapons/ammo/cash in c3's, cutting back on interest to be earned from loans, cutting back on profits to countries, making ceo's at best marginally profitable, to name a few. with each of these changes the base of experienced players dropped and those remaining empires became weaker. instead of protecting newer players and giving them a hand up, we continued to see many of these players quickly take down c3's and incur staggering debt making it impossible for them to dig themselves out.

i personally dropped my two ceo;s that had consistently been in the top five for a year or so, due to the low return. it was not worth the 30gc's to keep them. i also downsized an empire of eight countries with 40-50mill pop each and 40t+ weapons/ammo simply becuause it made more sense to have small countries with only 10-11 mill pop. currently, as i've said in other posts, i'm seriously considering dropping the other countries in the empire and only keeping the main (at least in the near term).


the new program if implimented properly can bring back a degree of support from players by giving them great incentives to play and develop empires. there is much to be said for these changes, just don't cut out the last possible profit center. i've seen a lot of changes and i'm hopeful that w3 will respond appropriately. Tom has been very open to suggestions and i know he is working very hard to fix the situation.

on the other hand i haven't mentioned the other leg on this stool and that's fed wars and gang banging of smaller players. even in situations where a person/fed is the winner of a large war, it takes a toll on the members. i've seen big wars result in most of the combatants leave shortly after the war was over. it currently has resulted in wp being used by many players to protect themselves. i realize that the changes that have been made were to help stabilize the war program and make it so players wouldn't have to be on constant alert, even when they won. some of us are not as thick skinned as Wendy (he tips his hat). So, there needs to be some balance and i commend all of us who have been in the conversation and hope that we can come to an amenable resolution. i've enjoyed SC and i'd like to be a part of it for some time to come. here's hoping.