Enforcement of Security Council Resolutions (White Giant)

On October 3, 2647 the presidents of White Giant voted to accept the resolution proposed by the White Giant Security Council entitled "No nuclear weapons of Evolution," effective until April 3, 2670. On July 3, 2650 the resolution "No Nuclear weapons for Communist Russian State," effective until April 3, 2670 was passed.

However, both these countries continue to defy the Council and the collective vote of the presidents of White Giant and continue to hold nuclear weapons. This is not acceptable.

As a member of the security council, I am now asking my fellow security council members if they support boycotting these to countries if they fail to dissarm their nuclear weapons and dispose of them.


If you support a boycott (if they will not disarm), and are on the Security Council, please post here.

If the majority of the members of the council vote to support a boycott, I will then ask ALL presidents in White Giant to please vote for a boycott of these two countries.

The specific proposal is as follows: Do you support the boycott of Evolution and Communist Russian State if they fail to cease all nuclear activities and dispose of all nuclear weapons and nuclear production capabilities in the next game year, for a period of no less than 23 game years.

The members of the council voting are:
Jaffle
Aaron Doolavay
Dog 55
Kaymen Sabarata
Brutus Buckeye
flasatos gimp
Man of Peace
chrysostom
Split
TuscaloosaDawg
Joe Green
Keith Vann
Buchanan
Elechristian
Jo Salkilld
Inoaikhan

Of those 16 members, we need 8 more to post (8 + me = 9) to have majority support. If the majority of the council supports; I will inform the presidents of those countries that they must follow the ressolutions passed, else face a boycott. If they fail to follow the resolutions, I will all willing presidents to boycott in order to protect the security of WG.

Crysostom,
I, TuscaloosaDawg,will support a boycott of the two countries in question. I would also like to point out that Keno Enterprises is aiding the communist russian state in violating this ban.

TD

Good idea Chrysostom. I totally support a warning, and a boycott if they don't listen.

Hugs and respect

Jo

I agree with doing what we can to force rouge nations to comply with SC resolutions.

However. We need to do it in a very responsible manner.

We have to make sure we are not punishing the new owner of a country. Who could prove to be an asset to this game in the future. For the acts committed by some ignorant NooB, that owned the country before him.


Evolution for example.

If you look at the president start date on this country. Then compare it to the date of the resolution. There is simply no reason that this president should be held responsible for the acts that Gothturd committed.

If you look at the violations page he has not even violated the resolution.

I don't want to chase new players away because of mistaken identity.


As for Communist Russian State.

He has clearly repeatedly violated the resolution, as did Keno Enterprises by selling him nuke sub missiles.

Shouldn't we also boycott those that sell nukes to banned countries?


So to be fair about it, I propose.

1. Double checking the current owner of the banned country.

2. CEOs and the President of any state owned corps that violate it. should be held responsible as well.

a. They get 1 warning, since they may not know the country is banned.

b. If they violate it again. We boycott any countries that they own.

c. If the CEO owner has no countries. Any corps he owns can bid on.

I'll support that.

Being the owner of keno enterprises we wish to point out that we have not or will not supply any nuclear materials to the said country on WG , to clarify why we appear to own a corporation(s) that appears to have supplied such banned supplies , we took over that said companies to disallow the past owner the means to supply nuclear materials to themselves, and we want to reassure all presidents on WG keno enterprises has no intention of supplying nuclear materials to any ceo or president who has any hostile intent to any of its neighbours.

I fully support and concur with all stated above.

Furthermore, I am also in support of stronger sanctions against those who are SELLING nuclear materials to countries the SC has held resolutions against. I am mildly sympathetic to the new player succumbing to the seduction of a nuclear weapons program. However, the unethical profiteering of established CEOS and countries is far more blameworthy.

In the absence of evidence to the contrary, I take Keno at his word that he took actions to prevent, rather than proliferate, unresponsible nuclear weapons programs. However, his penchant for referring to himself in the plural form is reprehensible and worthy of a SC council vote on the appropriate use of grammatical tenses.

Cheers,
Kaymen

Keno,

My applogies in naming you as a violator of the nuclear ban. Your explantion is satisfactory to me. This is why a warning needs to be sent 1st. If there is no responce or no plausable explination, then a boycott.
Sorry for naming you, and thank you for speaking up.

TD

Thank you for your prompt post Keno. If you discontinue selling nuclear weapons to Communist Russian State, that will go a long way towards preventing a boycott against you.

However, grammar aside, one of your Nuclear Submarine Missiles corporations is actually located in Communist Russian State and that leads me to question how close your relationship is with Mr31. I also question why an enterprise holds nuclear weapons corporations, when they are notoriously unprofitable, if not to provide a supply to a country or countries and take the financial penalty through the CEO.

a) Are you unaware that nuclear weapons corps are consistently unprofitable?

b) If not, for which countries are you building the weapons?

If the answer is a), then I suggest you close down the corps immediately and build others that will make a profit, like FMU, Oil, Household Products, Books & News.

If the answer is b) please provide details here

Hugs and respect

Jo

Hi Chrys,

I'm consulting with my fed - will advise you shortly.

edit

2nd edit.......I have just discovered the powers bestowed upon me as Sec. Council member. Seems Keno sold 1 nuke to Mr31 5 game years after the resolution was passed. I don't see any way he could have accidentally sold it to him. He would have to contract it or manually sell it. Either way it was certainly knowingly.

Status so far is:

Jaffle - consulting with his fed
Aaron Doolavay - AYE
Dog 55 -
Kaymen Sabarata - AYE
Brutus Buckeye -
flasatos gimp -
Man of Peace - NAY
chrysostom - AYE
Split -
TuscaloosaDawg - AYE
Joe Green -
Keith Vann -
Buchanan -
Elechristian -
Jo Salkilld - AYE
Inoaikhan -

We are at 5 AYE and one NAY so far.

I want to comment on a few comments:

1- Thanks for everyone for voting so far. We need 4 more AYEs for this to pass.

2- Regarding Keno, my opinion is that if Keno does not sell any future nuclear weapons to offending countries, and moves his nuclear corps from offending countries, that the issues is resolved. I agree that inspections should continue to observe and esnure Keno does not sell such weapons, but see no reason to boycott Keno if he continues to agree, from here forward, to abide by the security council resolutions passed by members.

3- As to Evolution - the changing of a president does not end the resolution. It is a simple matter for him to sell his nukes (I would buy them with my CEO if needed). There is no need for a secured main to hold nukes.

Chrysostom, while the changing of a president may not end the resolution wouldn't it be acceptable to look the other way because to punish a person for someone elses mistakes is not making anything right? We also know, if anyone else has looked, that the president of evolution did not buy nukes, he inherited them. Really, what did he do wrong?

Aaron,

You have a good point. I looked in more detail and found that this entire strategic arms total as follows:

2 Strategic Bombs

Thus, he only has nuclear amunition and not nuclear weapons. He could not actually nuke someone. Therefore, so long as no one objects, I am hereby amending the proposal as follows (per your suggestion)

"Do you support the boycott of Communist Russian State if it fails to cease all nuclear activities and dispose of all nuclear weapons and nuclear production capabilities in the next game year, for a period of no less than 23 game years."

With this language, we now have 6 AYE and 0 NAY, as Man of Peace (and he can post a correction if I am wrong) supported this as it pertained to Communist Russian State. We need 3 more AYE.

Chrys

I thought I was an AYE?

Why are you counting me as a NAY?

Is it because I will not punish a president, which we have proof of his innocence, while turning a blind eye to a CEO who may or may not have knowingly violated the resolution?

We're not talking about a name change here. We're talking about a whole new account. Which has done nothing to even violate the resolution.

When your only sin is buying a country from an asshat. Which you probably had no idea what the former owner did.

How would you feel?

Would you want someone telling you what you can and can not have in your country?

Would you have any respect for the SC?

Would you continue to play?

Would other players see the SC as a bunch of bullies?

I agree 100% with Aaron.

And further more...

"As to Evolution - the changing of a president does not end the resolution."

That is the GM's fault not his. If the GM would finish a feature before he implements it. We would not even be having this discussion because the resolution would automatically stop violations from happening in the first place.


"There is no need for a secured main to hold nukes."

I keep 99% of my nukes in my secured main. They are safer there and can be easily transferred to where I need them. In the unlikely situation that I do need them.

So in closing. I don't think that the SC has any right to punish anyone. Unless they(not the former owner)have actually given us a reason to. I believe doing so would simply make the masses lose respect for the SC.

I think you should also recheck the votes of Aaron and Kaymen since they voted after I posted my proposal.

Respectfully
MoP

Hi all,

I support a boycott of Communist Russian State, if it fails to dispose of all nuclear weapons and nuclear production capabilities in the next game year, for a period of no less than 23 game years.

I do not support a boycott of Keno, because I am satisfied with his explanation and I believe that he bought the corp in question after the trades were made. The information posted on the resolutions page is flawed, because it indicates only the current owner, not the owner at the time of the violation.

I do not support a boycott of Evolution, because the resolution was passed against Evolution's predecessor state. It is clear to me that the country was deregged and was not sold, because when countries are sold they keep the same presidency start date - the only way for the start date to reset is for the country to dereg. I suspect that the resolution is no longer in effect at all, and that we should put Evolution's inclusion on the 'recent resolutions' down to a coding error.

While we agree that responsible presidents should adhere to the security councils resolutions we just want to reiterate again that we have never sold any banned nuclear arms to the offending country communist state, and while it may seem other wise you'll just have to take our word for it.
As for moving corps we have complied and should be moved in the coming months and we want that to be the end of the matter.

Chrys

Sorry for post above. I didn't realize you had already seen the error in your judgment before I posted.

I started typing my response then had to break up a fight and change a diaper. I came back finished and posted it, just in time to put them down for a nap.(oh the joys of parenthood)

Anyhow I just got back online and realized my error and it is to late to edit it.

Oh, and I do agree with the amended proposal.

Sorry
MoP

@Keno

How many of you are there?

My vote is to Boycott Communist Russian State, leave everyone else alone as they seem to be innocent. Chrys, I think in the future how someone came to be in possession of nukes needs to be looked at before any discussion of boycotts takes place. There are only nukes left in Evolution because I carelessly left them there after I kicked Gothard out and apparently forgot to transfer them out. Even if i had left bombers too I wouldn't blame someone for there being nukes left there.

Agreed with boycott of Communist Russian State until set conditions are met. Aye.

EC

I support the idea,

however i am for a military action if possible. That means, if the empire has some countries to takeover/strip, we do it if possible(if country is not too expensive to takeover, and the SC funds could always help..).

I do not believe a boycott will have a great effect as we are 16, assuming once vote is passed, no presidents has a forced obligation to keep the boycott. A country can survive even if a few dozens boycott him.



Attacking or boycotting the countries selling the nukes, i do not believe it's a great idea, as mistakes happen. We do not want people to see the SC as a oppressing force against weaker/noob countries or against anybody who goes against their will.

On that point, i am also questionning(because i do not know, so i am asking) what steps are taken before a resolution is passed. Do we ask the player getting nukes what he is doing with it, then evaluate if he is a threat? Or do we look at who is a threat to peace, then ban him from having nukes?

If a player is just having fun and discovering the game and wants to use nukes, if he is warned about the consequences and what he can/cannot do, i do not believe it is our job to ban it. That would enforce the view that the SC tries to control everybody.

When a player is indeed a threat, i am all for banning him from having nukes, and it would be his job to demonstrate that he is not anymore to get the ban off. However, some players just want to have war fun and a boycott will only affect them so much, since their main goal is just to war with whoever. They dont last long, and the damage caused would be done anyways.

So, i will for now agree with the proposition, but i would like to have it amended to include some kind of military action as last resort or in particular cases.

I've already taken away his only slave country, which wouldn't have happened if appeared active at the time and he communicated at all. I don't know about anyone else but I am unable to get a reply to any message I send him.

Around 2 PM, I sent an e-mail informing the Communist Russian State that it had 1 game year (3 days) to denuclearize. With Split's Aye, we are now at 9 votes. Those voting AYE are:

Jaffle
Aaron Doolavay
Man of Peace
chrysostom
Split
TuscaloosaDawg
Kaymen Sabarata
Elechristian
Jo Salkilld

A few additional thoughts:

1. Individual countries should NOT start the boycott until it is confirmed that the Communist Russian State fails to cease all nuclear activities and dispose of all nuclear weapons and nuclear production capabilities in the next game year, for a period of no less than 23 game years. Thus, please do not start the boycott until Saturday afternoon EST, and even then, only if the conditions are not met.

2. Hopefully, the Communist Russian State will follow the resolution. Either way, this is an historic and positive development, as it is the first time that the countries of White Giant have worked together to build a safer world for all. I believe it will not be the last.

3. To those who wanted additional actions, or stronger measures-- these can be considered in the future. For now, it is historic that any action is being taken.

4. Thank you to all the security council members who took the time to participate. I hope that all members will continue to participate as we move forward.

5. To those who may question how active players are, I think the fact that the majority of the council was able to come and participate so quickly in this discussion, debate so activily, and work together so well, shows that the presidents of White Giant are very active and responsible members of the community.

6. To members who are not on the security council, it was your vote to support the ban that started this process. I know many of you read these threads without posting, and are active and dedicated members, who govern your countries responcibly. Thank you. Hopefully, in time, these sorts of discussions can become more open.