No way to destroy attacking Cruise Missile Ships or Guided Missile Frigates

Alright, I was at work when I made that suggestion so I didn't have time to elaborate. Anyway, navy helicopters don't have much going for them right now anyway and this would give them a logical role. I think they could be a useful defensive weapon.

I do see some challenges to solve though. The map, specifically. Fleet placement in lakes and how this would work for inland countries could be tricky. I am thinking the 2000 range they have is a fair response distance though. Along with having a non-navy defense option the solution to map things could be a navy helicopter wing you could form in your country.

Keep the sea-based wing at a larger strength of 300 helicopters to make up for the fact that the fleet should be the natural prey of attack submarine groups (which need beefing up for this role). Give the land-based wing maybe 200 helicopters with the idea they would support garrisons that could have defensive navy missile batteries.

I think this addresses concerns without adding a mobile unit, which seems like not the best solution since navies don't have one and free players can have access to this option.

maybe we just need off and def land to sea batts. make it simple. I do understand tho, the navy helos are rarely used. I do think a counter to the navy is a good idea since we have them for land and air, why not one for the navy. I agree the counter should not be a mobile unit. i'd leave stealth out of it, my SCG killed a whole unit with no loss, so it might not be a good choice given cost. I think rethinking the land to sea batts would be better, both uses same ammo. Garrison the def. and off could be the possible counter attack. As in the other counter attacks, they tend to be the same type unit that it attacks, ie stealth = air, convent = land.
so should it come from the navy and stick to what the GM is doing? IDK, this is a great topic with many outcomes and way too many for me to type. Aries we all could think of a hundred ways to make it work but I don't think we will get a win all solution on this subject matter. I see though we are in agreement with something needs to change. I mean we could even call for a naval defense unit w/ counter attack capability. I think it will be problematic to start with however it gets addressed. Note it would change how c3 wars are too I would assume. Nonetheless this won't be solved until they upgrade the servers and are back to normal again.

Just checked the documentation.

There are 10 different offensive weapons that can stop such missile ships and destroyers.

No mobile units needed at all.

The price of both the weapons and ammo has declined a lot but I do not have the current balance of the cost of destroying one of these ships versus the cost of the ship.

Many of you may not have these weapons and ammo that are needed for naval defense but they are available for as long as the navy exists.

Andy it's the lack of defence weapons that's the problem. Offence weapons are useless when your not online. That's the whole point of having a good defence, so you can have peace of mind that when your offline your country is very tough to take. Not anymore. Lees than 4 hours it took for that massive country to fall. Without any losses sustained by the attacker. Without a single shot being fired from fed air defence. I'm amazed the GM doesn't recognise the problem.

The problem is one of range though Andy - most of the weapons listed only go 3000 miles or less, so the CMS just sits out of range and shells the crap out of the country. While Stealth and LtoS MB are able to reach, putting more LtoS capabilities on the defensive side would help.

To say you can use precision bombers to respond is a joke, those things are shredded with no damage to the fleet. Even with SB you get 50% hit rate and 10% damage. Meanwhile they hit your strategic airport at 100% HR and 2% and soon you have no real response. LtoS MB have a 25% HR and 5% DR. They do not have an automatic response and do not destroy incoming missiles meaning that you have to target attack. SB's respond.

BTW - I asked that we be able to make stealth bombers and LGB's on WG so that we can have a response and not have to go out to space to keep up a defense.

Hey Guys

A couple people asked me to throw in my 2 cents.

- Pro's
Navies are for the most part are very good in practice, They offer mobility and have a good combination on units. The GM has done well to create the new fleets. The Setup is great and the diversification is great

- Con's
Navies lack and anti air ability. Only their planes can attack enemy air units and in the case of interceptors its like 1 or 2 attacks meaning in air battles they are WORTHLESS... My suggestion is adding an Anti Air Ship (like and anti air battery)

-Navies take less damage and are harder to destroy... ----BUT---- Lets keep in mind people that unlike land forces navies only gain air support and not land support. This means they accully have less weapons to defend with.

- All this talk on no defense is non-sense.
A player can set up a LRD of 850 Land to Sea missiles batteries and sink a navy fleet.
The Problem here is 850 Land to sea batteries + 30,000 Missiles @ 300Q costs around 1.4T....(Andy please double check this.)

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Navies are in fact powerful but they are not an exploit weapon to win all wars. To be honest Navies are to an extent at this point still under powered.

HOWEVER when it comes to defense against navies. I would love to see a Mobile unit that auto attacks enemy navies. Putting 300 Land to Sea missile Batteries and having them auto attack any navies that come into range. But thats just me

You are probably on line some times after receiving the war message and taking care of a naval threat is possible with the offensive weapons.

There are several defensive navy weapons including navy missiles, defensive destroyers, missile interceptors.

I will look into the balance of offensive power versus the possibility to defend.
If it is completely out of balance, we will tune them.

Just really need a weapon in a garrison that is effective against them. Adding the ability to include defensive navy missile batteries to garrisons should do it.

I don't think we need to add a new defensive weapon to garrisons, I think we just need to tune the ones we have... I mean by that make the current batteries more effective pointless to add more weapons and costs when the gm is trying to reduce them. Also Thanks for investigating navies Andy we appreciate it

Defensive navy missile batteries are not new. Just like you can find defensive missile batteries in land divisions and garrisons, the defensive naval missile batteries should be found in fleets and garrisons. Further, I think from your previous post you must have missed what happened on kb. Navies are quite effective. I proved it, against a real player, and you would have a heck of a time convincing any spectators of that war that navies are underpowered.

About lowering costs, I wonder if the intended consequences are that skilled players have many more units at their disposal. More units to transport, upgrade, deploy, move, upgrade, and manage and, when you go to war, more units to face. This would be a good topic for another thread, you know, that is not this one.

Having faced these units lately they really are a super weapon. I'll explain why.

The land or air units used to counter these weapons still have to go up against the air defence. They get a free shot.

The land or air units alone can never completely destroy the carrier groups because of the nuclear subs. Only naval units can take them out. So the carrier can resupply fairly easily and continue getting free shots at you.

What's needed is a combo of weapons. Land and naval. I tried using the Sub attack unit on it's own but it's useless. I'll need to first take out the Navy int batts from land or air. Then get my sub attack groups in close to finally sink it.

Thing is these sub groups can be sunk from the air or by the other navy. The navy will sink them easily as they have no defence plus they don't need to worry about a response from my air def. Then I'd have to go create more, move them back into range. By that time the enemy will have ressuplied

And round and round we go. The only way I could sink them is if the other guy wasn't online to take out my sub groups.

I thought these navy units would be easily countered if your online to attack them. I was badly mistaken. They're a huge pain I the ass.

I have persevered with trying to kill these carrier groups. Finally when I think I'm getting somewhere I'm down to this.

Navy fighter planes 125
Supply ships 20
Navy interceptors 217

Somehow the unit wont destroy?
Tell me what are those navy fighter sitting on top off? Lol

There was a huge effort involved to get the carriers to this stage.

I wont post the newspaper results there's to many attacks. Check the newspaper of Victory at midway. The unit I attacked is called Waynehill

The last few attacks I placed on the carriers where ineffective but when I recon It's showing those numbers I posted above.

Again how do those navy fighters survive. Can they float?

Message from the peanut gallery:

"Did he say 18 strategic carrier groups???..........wow"

Long way to go I guess.

Yeah. That was then. I have over 50 now.

50 nice. Lots to practice on

Interesting your unit Waynehill hasn't resupplied.

Recon I'm still seeing this

Navy fighter planes 125
Supply ships 20
Navy interceptors 217