Hey you Brits...

I wonder how many of you have actually fired a side arm in civilian life. And how accurate you would be, and if you think you could actually shoot a living person?

Interesting statistic #1:

57% of ALL deaths by firearms are Suicide. USGO 2010

I was just informed that baked beans are a staple wif scrambled eggs and toast over there in the UK!!!!! OMG it gets even worse!

Let's not even go there with the Brown Sauce!

Yep, and bubble and squeak,

mmmmm, bubble...

Crafty i go to the gun range every so often, my aim is so good i could hit the red dot on the paper dargets they give me, it could be becuase i have a scope on every gun i own.

Nice Q, but the point I was trying to get across is IF you could pull the trigger, IF you could hit target under the stress of defending yourself, and IF the round would have the desired effect.

All this shite you see on tele/film of double handed shooting with gun sideways, diving behind gypsum walls, come on...

An interesting thread.

@Jo: "Nothing is ever black and white." Nothing? Ever? Isn't that pretty absolutist, dogmatic, and extreme? "Most things aren't black and white" doesn't have that same ring of certainty, though.

@Wendy: I can't believe I agree with you on a social issue. You're not one of those returned players playing dress-up, are you?

@Smokes: Man, I'm impressed! I wish I could be in your fed.

@Skandar: What makes Breivik a Christian? The fact that he was born in Norway? Why not just say that Norwegians can do good or bad, and call him a Scandinavian nut, instead of bringing your religious prejudices into it?

@Billy Bob etc: It's not the Republicans who are keeping people stupid. The large US cities with the worst education problems are almost invariably one-party Democrat towns, with Democrats running the school systems from top to bottom, and have been for decades.

@Tom Morgan: "Saying that people will win a war against their own government with guns (at least in the developed world) is rubbish." The philosophy behind the 2nd amendment is that we trust our fellow citizens as much as we trust the government, which is composed of some citizens who we allow some powers. There are irresponsible people in government as well as out. Ever wonder who keeps the US military in check? Capitalists, liberals with loud voices, and rednecks with guns. Yes, I'm overstating the point (nothing is ever black and white) but there's a lot of truth to it.

LOL Jojo. Ok, I'll amend my statement to read: nothing is ever black and white, other than those things that are clearly black and / or white. However, this isn't one of them

Smokes: guns don't kill people. People kill people. However, people with guns find it easier to kill people than those without.

If people find it more difficult (please note, I don't say 'impossible') to get guns, then it's more difficult to kill people with them. That doesn't mean they can't use other weapons, and we have an acknowledged problem here in the UK with knife crime. However, we do have fewer shootings here in the UK (and presumably Australia, Tom) than in the US. That's fewer shootings by civilians, and fewer shootings by police. However you look at it, the stats speak for themselves.

Sidenote: In the UK there is an ancient law that requires every citizen to own a bow and to attend archery practice once a week. They never got around to repealing it, and sometimes I wonder what would happen if the police ever tried to enforce it ...

Back to the topic in hand. Don't get me wrong, I admire the US constitutional right to bear arms, if only because it allows the populace to rise against an oppressive government, should one ever occur. But in a largely democratic and constitutional society, where one hopes that would never happen, violence breeds violence. And, god forbid, it ever did, give me Ghandi over Mandela every time.

Hugs and respect

Jo

What I was trying to say about never winning a war against a government in the first world with guns is that you try and take on the US Government with a pistol. You would lose.
The Right to Bear Arms was an amendment to scare away the British and in today's society, its pretty useless.
Keeping the army in check by having guns in the civil population is an argument I cannot understand. The army has grenades, and missiles and tanks, of which a shotgun is useless against. Any rogue military force with fire power and training will easily defeat a farmer with a shotgun. Probably just as quicky as a British or Australian farmer with a pitch fork. Back in the 19th Century, it would have been far easier to fight against the army because everyone had the same weaponry. Today you don't see ordinary people flying Fighter Jets or using Missile Batteries. The army has far more power than any of you.
If there was an oppresive government in the US, it would put down any resistance quicker than anyone could blink. One bomb can erase an entire city in virtually 2 seconds, without any of the attacking force being wounded.
The fact is that the governments of the free world have armies which are (hopefully) under control (for now, anyway).
I know I have been a little over-the-top crazy- I just believe there is little reason to have so many guns so freely avaliable in a society which doesn't need them. Yes, there will always be a black market for guns, but limiting the over-the-counter avaliability of guns at least goes some way into cutting crime rates.

Hey, I have an idea!

You can have all the guns you want, but having ammo is punishable by death.

@Jojo T. Hun
Anders Breivik wanted to roll back the tide of multiculturalism in Europe, he feared the islamification of Europe and wanted to preserve a Christian Europe. His manifesto stated that he was "100 percent Christian" and a "modern-day crusader". He posted a picture of himself dressed as a Knight Templar officer (a medieval military Christian order).

My aim in bringing up Anders Breivik, was not to score points against religion. I simply wanted to point out that when a member of ANY group (religious, geographical, demographical) is involved in unsavoury acts, the remainder of the group is usually very quick in denouncing them as not a "true" X. I think it would be far better to accept that there are members of EVERY group that harbour slightly more extreme views than the average and encourage the group to challenge their views. This is far less likely to result in nutters going out & bombing/shooting people. It also means that the group can point to their attempts at debating & challenging views as evidence that the nutter was not actually a "true" X, rather than simply denouncing them ex post facto.

Skandar, I agree with your main points. I'm really objecting to your calling him a "religious nut". Searching on "was breivik a christian" I see some more quotes from his manifesto, where he claims he's "moderately religious", "not an excessively religious man", and that "I'm not going to pretend I'm a very religious person". So why not call him a "not very religious nut"?

He says he wants "a secular European society based on our Christian cultural heritage". I can see calling him a Christian in the cultural sense, but not a Christian in the religious sense. So how about calling him a "cultural nut"?

In fact, unless you strongly identify as a cultural or religious Christian yourself, and thus are trying to assume blame for the guy, it seems that you're doing pretty much what you're blaming other groups for: disassociating yourself from the nut and pawning him off on others!

Anyway, I'm not European but as an American am part of the "Christian cultural heritage" he's talking about, so I'll accept some responsibility and advise anyone here and elsewhere not to descend into complete moral depravity, not to mention hypocricy and utter stupidity, to try to achieve your goals of preserving the valuable parts of it.

so um what do we hunt with a bow
for my company onjly the sups and managers can touch the guns sorry female sups I can't help you
I misloades firearm = termination
yes US loves guns
now there is
the assault tommy BB gun
the assault AK47 BB gun
all available at Acad sports

Tom called me dillusional...LMFAO...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XY02Qkuc_f8 >>>JFK Secret service stand down...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHUKPXR5TbQ >>>Death Bed confession that CIA did it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NO24XmP1c5E&ob=av3e >>>NWO information
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pkk4sMsHpdo >>>Gun control
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71aXlW4gFcg >>>>9/11 false flag attacks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xirs6VKcTUU&feature=related >>>>The Rise of FEMA
Look I could go on forever with these links...What you call 3 conspiracies is really just one BIG ONE! Its not about East or West. What color your skin is. what country your from. Or What religion you belong to. Its about control. No guns means easily controlled. Thats what i'm saying. I leave you with this Song>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1T8xgHdMEM

Oh and that a$$hole that went on that shooting spree in Norway was a freemason.

LoL Jojo long time no see.... its me Hun.

I think total prohib on all guns would be bad
as in beer prohib bad which did not last long
but prohib on military grad weapons yes
but BB assault is an alternative for those who like full auto and single shot hunting rifles
but yeah selling full auto regular bad idea
if they do get a full auto it is on the black market like dope

Alcohol prohibition lasted for years, no?
In fact, here's a shiny new wikipedia article which tells you all you need to know.

and it was about the same time as the Great depression
Americans like their
booze
guns
and big vehicles
or cars with big block v8
I don't know how many times I've seen a humvee in a movie
probably the most popular vehicle in a movie
but recectly discontinued

What's your point?

don't take away the alcohol, the guns or the v8 cars n trucks
even though so may get discontinued and come back latter like the Charger
even the Aussie cars are American based
they have US engines and are built like a US muscle car like some have the corvette engine

Are you an... IT, Patton?

I'll have to call the IT especialist Lorelei to be certain.

no I'm a mlw who works for a company that sells guns
I can touch the ammo and the BB guns but can't touch the real ones

Laguna, I got a telepathic message from you that you needed my expertise opinion on a matter..... It brought me right here!

I have evaluated. Matt Patton has passed wif flying colors all the indicators for definite 'IT-dom'. lol

This is most serious. We have to advance in our efforts to control and annihilate thw IT infection. We must stop their propagation before it is too late!

Oh yes! A MUST! What to do???? What to do????