A raw deal from Admin.

I have been elk hunting for the past two weeks and haven't had much time to put my thoughts down on the proposed changes.

I seem to be one of the targets of these changes and as a paying customer, I have every right to know what they will be in order to decide how I spend my money.

Yes I have hundreds of trillions in weapons stored in my CEO and hundreds of trillions in ammo stored in countries. Yes I have an organization with over 1500 corporations in it.

With the removal of the ability to sell game cash for gold coins there is no incentive to do anything else with my cash.

1. I haven't been involved in a PVP war since my return several years ago. My weapons are defensive in nature. How does my storing them impact the game?
2. What is the plan to address my evil ways of peacefully storing weapons?
3. What is the plan for addressing the limits of CEO growth?
4. Will admin institute the old plan of selling game cash for gold coins?

Thank you.
Sam Houston.

Those were the days 10gcs got you 16-18T game cash from generous Vets. So much game cash being thrown around no cared for the losses in a war because you could build another war fighter in a week or 2. Countries with 100m plus pop being nuked to 7m pop c3s. Out of lack of respect for players. Those were the days.

I would like those days you could get 18T from 10GC

I (and many others) were able to build our first big empires quickly years ago because we were buying pop for something like 2-4GC per million and getting cash cheap as well. And then, we did the same for the next crop of new players. If we saw a good, friendly-ish player in chat or on the forums there were lots of people rich in SC 1s and 0s that would help. It looks like SC has swung so far to the econ-only side (I assume these and other changes were made to make wars/raids less frequent or less fruitful), seems like you might as well just eliminate the war game altogether.

Talk about... I started a country in FB last night, didn't buy anything, and I woke up this morning to a message that said I needed to spend 17 GC to cover $500 BILLION in debt... How ridiculous is all of that????

It's BS that starter countries suck so hard. It's BS that 17GCs gets you only $500B.

Border C,

I looked into that country.

you have spent 2000B on ammunition.

Nobody took 500B from a new country you started on FB.
New countries never spend anything close to 500B.
president do as you did.

I suggest you cancel this country ASAP.
don't spend 17 GC on a country, just started, that sucks 500B in several hours.

It might destroy your entire game assets in another 3 days.

While I'll give you adding a new empire on a new world can be tedious, they do not often loose money like yours did.

Jiggle, you did not read my comment above,

In that same month, 2000B was spent on ammunition

I didn't place any orders to buy anything on FB. If anything was spent it's because it was automated. In fact, first thing I did was to de-activate weapons along with shutting down those schools, hospitals, etc. If it was automated, then why? Why, as a new player, do I have to go in and fix all the bad settings to make sure the country doesn't fail? Again, I started a country at night, made those adjustments to curb spending, and then left it for the night. Woke up $500B in debt. Now, there's a solid case to say that I'm just a noob (and I am), but I haven't really had time to screw up my country yet!

You suggest cancelling and starting over to avoid the 17 GC. Doesn't it cost 30 GC to buy a new country to start over?

Also, if it's auto-buying these ammo, why are they even buying it for weapons I don't have? I don't have any offensive weapons. I have the defensive weapons I started with, and for some reason I have a strategic airport and base, and that's it.

Yeah, I'm going to feel really dumb when somebody points out something I did to screw it up (so I'm not discounting that), but I didn't place any orders for ammo.

No auto purchases for this kind of money.

The purchasing of huge numbers of ammo are all on your cash log.

I agree that they show up on the log. However, I didn't place any orders. Why would I even buy half this stuff? Again, I have zero offensive weapons (understanding you don't need weapons to buy ammo....), but I don;t know why I'm even spending time trying to prove I didn't do something.... Also, wondering why it says I bought train tracks when I was destroying them last night... not building them.

Andy isn't being helpful. Does anybody else have a clue?

Bought Heavy Tank Ammunition: 2853 grenades with quality 120 on the Market Feb 02 4605 -219M SC$ -481.85B SC$
Bought Roads: 200 miles with quality 120 on the Market Feb 01 4605 -3,989M SC$ -481.64B SC$
Bought Defensive Missiles: 49 missiles with quality 223 on the Market Jan 11 4605 -115M SC$ -477.65B SC$
Bought Anti Aircraft Missiles: 29 missiles with quality 224 on the Market Jan 11 4605 -61M SC$ -477.53B SC$
Bought Helicopter Missiles: 136 missiles with quality 225 on the Market Jan 10 4605 -356M SC$ -477.47B SC$
Bought Armored Vehicle Missiles: 21 missiles with quality 202 on the Market Jan 10 4605 -46M SC$ -477.11B SC$
Bought Train Tracks: 200 miles with quality 120 on the Market Jan 09 4605 -2,719M SC$ -477.07B SC$
Bought Navy Missile Interceptors: 51 missiles with quality 225 on the Market Jan 08 4605 -85M SC$ -474.35B SC$
Bought Cars: 283104 cars with quality 223 on the Market Jan 07 4605 -26,266M SC$ -474.26B SC$
Bought Heavy Artillery Shells: 58227 shells with quality 210 on the Market Jan 06 4605 -6,671M SC$ -448.00B SC$
Bought Mobile Devices: 212302 devices with quality 120 on the Market Jan 06 4605 -4,232M SC$ -441.33B SC$
Bought Attack Drone Missiles: 5293 missiles with quality 300 on the Market Jan 05 4605 -41,928M SC$ -437.10B SC$

And apologies to J.B. for de-railing his original topic.

No returning player, no matter how long ago they played, would manually place orders for those ammo at those quality settings. That has to be automated. I have no idea why unless you have those weapons. You country will auto-order ammo for weapons you have even if you have auto orders turned off.

Yeah, I have zero offensive weapons and only what I started with on defense, which is very small (not more than 20 of anything).

You guys with all these weapons stored are only serving as an excuse to charge GC for storage in space stations.

i have said many times that military spending budgets should be reduced for new people. they have no clue how much stuff will cost and don't know that quality multiplies that even further.

they have no way of using any weapons cost 500B with their tiny economics making 5b max. so if they dont bancruipt because of buying, their economy is destroyed by military maintenance cost.

Right now I have 38 countries on 1 world. With each of those countries (including my first) I got the same thing.

What probably happend was the following:

You disbanded all units
- You deactivated all weapons (they still use some men and resoures but far less and so it saves you money)
- You log out and go to bed.

What you probably did not do is:
- change the settings for buying your suplies
- canceling all orders that were already placed

When you get a new country all the previous automated orders remain in place.

Example:
- Before you owned the country the system placed an order for 2853 tank grenades.
- You get the country.
- The order was not yet filled because of the shortages on the weapon market so it was still active when you got the country.
- During your night time the order (and associated costs) got filled.

You log in and are pissed because you payed a lot of money for things you did not order. Which is true, you did not order them. The automated system orderd them before you got the country.

If you look at the number of weapons orderd it seems to make sense. The numbers are not very high and seem to be more like a monthly use number.

I agree that what happened was probably about what you describe, DETA. And BorderC is a returning, experienced player. Imagine what happens to brand new players who don't know what to do or be able to comprehend what might have gone wrong. Perhaps new player help in the settings was left on as well.

Regarding Sam's post, it does seem to me like some arbitrary limitations are being placed on players. These limits prevents veteran players from having anything to do in the game. It seems like you won't be able to grow your enterprises. You won't be able to accumulate weapons. I'll echo Sam: What exactly is the point of making cash if you can't use it? There is virtually zero warfare, so limiting weapons seems... kind of pointless. It's already difficult to quickly move weapons from enterprises to empires. What's the point of logging in once you've built your countries to their desired size? What is there to do?

Forgot to mention:

also 550B worth of weapons purchased at the same time.

My point is:

The claim that 500B disappeared over night.

weapons are not purchased by the system.
the president must purchase them.

I don't see why your arguing this. Everybody else that has responded seems to agree it's possible the system is messed up. I don't even know why you'd claim your point is that $500B didn't disappear. Clearly it did, evidenced by the fact that I'm 500B in the hole, and that doesn't even account for the $450B starter cash value there was in the country (based on cash logs). So yes, if you look at those cash logs, the country actually spent nearly $1T overnight. Most of it was on ammo that was automatically purchased. Some of it is other odd purchases that don't make sense. (see below)

On this "also 550B worth of weapons purchased at the same time.", if you or anybody else looks at the country, you'll note I don't have any weapons. There aren't any in the cash logs either. Instead, there are things like:

Bought Def Weapons Maintenance: 1493624 units with quality 235 on the Market May 05 4605 -76,710M SC$ -426.86B SC$

$76B on weapons maintenance when I have like 20 interceptors and whatever other starting defensive weapons? Seems high and looks like it happened just last game month...


Bought Water treatment facilities: 5 installations with quality 120 on the Market May 02 4605 -8,335M SC$ -384.93B SC$
Bought Train Tracks: 200 miles with quality 120 on the Market May 01 4605 -2,971M SC$ -376.59B SC$
Bought Roads: 200 miles with quality 120 on the Market May 01 4605 -4,359M SC$ -373.62B SC$

Apparently it keeps charging me for these. Again, the first thing I did when I started the country 1.5 days ago was destroy roads, tracks, and water facilities because the transportation index was over 200 and my country financials showed I was operating at a loss when I first bought the country. I haven't built any more rails, roads, or water facilities since closing them, so I don't know why my cash transactions show that the country is buying.


Received Bonus from Simcountry Apr 03 4605 250,000M SC$ -384.14B SC$

I don't know where that came from.

Bought Airforce Maintenance: 2700430 units with quality 236 on the Market Mar 05 4605 -184,059M SC$ -607.71B SC$

$184B on airforce maintenance for 20 interceptors??


It occurs to me that maybe you can't see my weapons, so here you go.

Exhibit A (Offensive Weapons)


Type of Weapon Active Inactive Quality Ammunition Available Quality
Military Airport 1 - 120 - - -
Military Base 1 - 120 - - -
Anti Aircraft Missile Batteries 0 0 120 Anti Aircraft Missiles 953 228
Anti Tank Missile Batteries 0 0 120 Anti Tank Missiles 508 224
Mid Range Missile Batteries 0 0 120 Mid Range Missiles 692 220
Precision Bombers 0 0 120 Precision Bombs 10,991 300
Stealth Bombers 0 0 120 Laser Guided Bombs 0 120
Fighter Planes 0 0 120 Fighter Missiles 14,276 224
Attack Helicopters 0 0 120 Attack Helicopter Missiles 15,259 291
Heavy Armored Vehicles 0 0 120 - - -
Heavy Artillery 0 0 120 Heavy Artillery Shells 58,227 210
Heavy Jeeps 0 0 120 - - -
Heavy Tanks 0 0 120 Heavy Tank Ammo 128,451 120
Long Range Radar Planes 0 0 120 - - -
Aircraft Carrier 0 0 120 - - -
Navy Fighter Planes 0 0 120 Navy Fighter Missiles 0 120
Helicopter Carrier 0 0 120 - - -
Navy Helicopters 0 0 120 Navy Helicopter Missiles 0 120
Fleet Command 0 0 120 - - -
Guided Missiles Frigate 0 0 120 Guided Missiles 0 120
Submarines 0 0 120 Submarine Torpedoes 0 120
Attack Destroyers 0 0 120 Attack Destroyer Torpedos 0 120
Attack Drones 0 0 120 Attack Drone Missiles 4,761 300
Seals Units 0 0 120 Seals Ammo 0 120
Rapid Deployment Units 0 0 120 Rapid Deployment Ammo 0 120
Special Forces 0 0 120 Special Forces Missiles 0 120
Land To Sea Missile Batteries 0 0 120 Land To Sea Missiles 254 150
Transport Airplanes 0 0 120 - - -
Supply Ships 0 0 120 - - -
Light Attack Boats 0 0 120 - - -
Conventional Missile Batteries 0 0 120 Conventional Missiles 0 120
Land Based Cruise Batteries 0 0 120 Land Based Cruise 0 120
Cruise Missiles Ships 0 0 120 Cruise Missiles Ship Based 0 120

Exhibit B (Defensive Weapons)

Type of Weapon Active Inactive Quality Ammunition Available Quality
Fortification 10 - - - - -
Military Airport 1 - - - - -
Military Base 1 - - - - -
Anti Aircraft Missile Batteries 5 15 120 Anti Aircraft Missiles 1,491 203
Missile Interceptor Batteries 5 15 120 Missile Interceptors 905 222
Defensive Missile Batteries 5 15 120 Defensive Missiles 1,372 246
Armored Vehicles 5 15 120 Armored Vehicle Missiles 240 195
Helicopters 19 1 120 Helicopter Missiles 132 220
Interceptors 20 0 120 Interceptor Missiles 3,718 200
Jeeps 0 20 120 - - -
Light Artillery 5 15 120 Light Artillery Shells 571,574 122
Light Tanks 5 15 120 Light Tank Ammunition 319,540 252
Navy Missile Batteries 20 0 120 Navy Missiles 60 245
Navy Missile Interceptor Batteries 20 0 120 Navy Missile Interceptors 62 201
Navy Interceptors 0 0 120 Navy Interceptor Missiles 450 195
Destroyers 0 0 120 Destroyer Torpedos 20 120
Nuclear Defense Batteries 0 0 120 Nuclear Defense Missiles 0 120
Radar Planes 0 0 120 - - -

Editing, because the noob I am just realized there were a bunch of activated air wings and land forces that aren't counted in the numbers in my previous post. I've deactivated the units now. Still, I have not purchased any weapons since starting, as you claim, Andy. Neither did I setup these initial forces (I don't even remember how to deploy units).

The point remains, either the game is buying stuff on its own, there are stuff (wings, orders, etc) carried over from the C3 that I purchased to start on FB, or the initial settings of starter countries put me (and maybe other new players) in this situation. I don't know which of the three it is. My country on LU didn't have these problems, but maybe settings on FB are different.

Anti Aircraft Missile Batteries 180 0 150 Anti Aircraft Missiles 7,929 159
Anti Tank Missile Batteries 180 0 150 Anti Tank Missiles 8,496 154
Mid Range Missile Batteries 280 0 150 Mid Range Missiles 11,732 154
Precision Bombers 1,380 0 300 Precision Bombs 176,415 298
Stealth Bombers 0 0 120 Laser Guided Bombs 0 120
Fighter Planes 1,480 0 300 Fighter Missiles 147,092 291
Attack Helicopters 480 0 300 Attack Helicopter Missiles 63,019 296
Heavy Armored Vehicles 200 0 150 - - -
Heavy Artillery 300 0 150 Heavy Artillery Shells 96,027 186
Heavy Jeeps 180 0 150 - - -
Heavy Tanks 560 0 150 Heavy Tank Ammo 194,531 130
Long Range Radar Planes 0 0 120 - - -
Aircraft Carrier 0 0 120 - - -
Navy Fighter Planes 0 0 120 Navy Fighter Missiles 0 120
Helicopter Carrier 0 0 120 - - -
Navy Helicopters 0 0 120 Navy Helicopter Missiles 0 120
Fleet Command 0 0 120 - - -
Guided Missiles Frigate 0 0 120 Guided Missiles 0 120
Submarines 0 0 120 Submarine Torpedoes 0 120
Attack Destroyers 0 0 120 Attack Destroyer Torpedos 0 120
Attack Drones 600 0 300 Attack Drone Missiles 58,685 298
Seals Units 0 0 120 Seals Ammo 0 120
Rapid Deployment Units 0 0 120 Rapid Deployment Ammo 0 120
Special Forces 0 0 120 Special Forces Missiles 0 120
Land To Sea Missile Batteries 120 0 150 Land To Sea Missiles 4,990 150
Transport Airplanes 0 0 120 - - -
Supply Ships 0 0 120 - - -
Light Attack Boats 0 0 120 - - -
Conventional Missile Batteries 0 0 120 Conventional Missiles 0 120
Land Based Cruise Batteries 0 0 120 Land Based Cruise 0 120
Cruise Missiles Ships 0 0 120 Cruise Missiles Ship Based 0 120



To other folks point... this is a ridiculously small army (as I recall) and it costs $171B per game year? And this country is less than 2 days old and started with all of this, setting me up to be in the red.

Offensive Force Statistics
Offensive Force Index 27.05 Offensive Force Index
Number of Soldiers 80,240 Soldiers in the offensive force
Number of Officers 31,540 Officers in the offensive force
Total size of Offensive Staff 111,780 Size of the Offensive Force
Year To Date cost of Purchasing Weapons and Ammo 58,663.05M SC$
Monthly Running Cost 14,385.23M SC$ Cost of the offensive forces
Year To Date Running Cost 71,266.16M SC$
Expected Running Cost for the Year 171,038.78M SC$
|

I do not deny that you are 500B in the hole.

What I am saying is that you have overspent.
you have spent the money and you are playing a blame game.
The game did not purchase any weapons for you.

When you purchase products you can end up in the negative.

we have all the graphs showing the spending on ammo and weapons. The cash logs show the purchases in details.

The weapons were purchased as part of a setup of air force wings.

You are misleading others with this story about disappearing money.

we have here new players who are looking for someone to explain to them how it works.
what to spend and how to prevent financial disaster.

and then there is you, telling them that you are an experienced player and you have just had 500B disappearing.

You can argue about ammo.
but weapons are never bought for you automatically.
you have to click to purchase and you did.

the financial accounting in Simcountry works just fine for many years. It works correctly.
Just don't blame anyone for what you did yourself.

All you needed to say was:

I did not realize I have spent so much money.

@BorderC

In one of my previous posts I tried to explain what might have happend. Now that I have read some more of your own records, what Andy said and by looking at your country it looks like you made a few mistakes that did not help your situation.

This is normal and happens to all of us.

If you need some advice or help getting back on track, or how to restart a new country feel free to PM me.