Gold Coins Market liquidity crisis

It would be nice to listen to what we are all saying about this decision.

Hey guy,

We have been making a lot of money by sitting around, complaining, not taking any risk.
nobody fights because it costs money and everybody wants to make money.

Now that that they changed the numbers and profits are down, there were messages here saying "this country should have this profit" and that enterprise should have that profit.
why is it? what is left of this game. sitting around and making money?
You described in details why the gold coins are needed so we can all play for free for ever and never need to purchase anything.
You are very smart indeed.

The introduction of gold coins exchange was an error when they brought it in. a very stupid error.

They should never bring it back and I advise them to:
- Kill the other part of the exchange. If anyone wants gold coins he should buy them.
- Kill the virtual assets exchange. It is not in the interest of W3creative.
- Add a feature or two that will give gold coins to players who win big wars between players if these wars are real.
- Add a feature that will earn gold coins, for peaceful players who achieve something big. Add some big things to achieve.
- Start making money as a company because no one is going to keep financing this game and company for ever if it does not produce enough revenue

And for our players community I would say:
Start playing if you want to make money. take risks and fight some wars to earn gold coins.

I am here from the start. I am probably the oldest player and I was communicating to Jozi by mail from time to time.

I mailed him yesterday and gave him my opinion on this decision that must be his:
Don't ever bring back the free money to Simcountry and never exchange any money any more into gold coins.

Andy, I do not understand your point. You seem to be saying that I am contradicting myself, but I don't understand how. Please could you clarify?

Maybe I'm not being completely clear in my argument. Andy - please consider those players who are:

a) not able to win level awards - either because they have got very high in levels already, or because they aren't interested in playing the levels game, or because they aren't particularly good at it.

b) cannot win ranking awards - either because they are not good enough to get that high (only 18 people per month on WG), or because they are in the Hall of Fame and can't win another award for 5 months.

c) cannot win war level awards - either because they are already at the highest war level and can't go any further, or because they are playing a peaceful game and don't want to go up war levels.

Those players have only one option to acquire GCs (other than paying real cash for them) and that is to extend their registration. But doing that will pay for (at the most) one empire and half an enterprise for the duration of the registration. What about the players who have empires and enterprises on all five worlds and have already reached the highest level on all the worlds, and the highest war rank? What do they do?

Players are giving GCs to the GMs all the time - for extending their countries and enterprises, buying population and boosting slave countries - and your proposal means that these GCs go out of circulation completely. I'm willing to bet that the number of GCs that are removed from circulation in this way, far exceed the number of GCs which are put into circulation by players winning awards or extending accounts.

You are the only one who can confirm or deny that, Andy, and I may be wrong. However, I'd be interested to know the numbers involved. If I'm right on that, it will mean that the number of GCs in circulation will gradually dwindle to the point where players will not sell them because they need them to extend their own empires. Worst case situation - in time, players who cannot afford to buy GCs for real cash will be forced out of the game.

May I suggest that you consider a compromise? Why not calculate the balance between the GCs the GMs have received in payment and the ones they have given out in awards or sold for real cash, and make only those available to buy with SimCountry cash? That method would ensure that the same number of GCs stay in circulation. The calculation must be fairly easy to automate. If I'm wrong, and you are giving out more GCs that you are receiving, then there will be no need for you to put any on the market. But if I'm right, it will prevent a very serious shortage in the future.

Once again, thankyou for listening to us and engaging in discussion. We do appreciate it!

Hugs and respect

Jo

But hopefully new players are joining all the time Jo, so the GC amount per player needs to be kept at a certain level, and who can predict how many will stay and earn extra coins through levelling etc. Nope, sorry, I don't think that would work.

Now if there were a continuous way to create GCs by players, regardless of if they can/want to level up etc, sort of like a corp (but not a corp) then we might have a good way of keeping a decent float around and it would also be entirely market force driven!

The use of space comes to mind. Some serious tweaking of this nearly defunct feature could bring this about. We have talked about mining asteroids etc, someone surely could come up with some method.

Answers on a postcard please...

You're right, Crafty. It's all down to that calculation - if the GMs don't put GCs up for sale, will the number in circulation per player gradually decrease?

If so, then the argument for them to put a limited number of GCs on the market is there. If not, then removing themselves from the market won't cause a problem.

It can be made to work by performing a running calculation on how many GCs the GMs have received (taken out of circulation) and how many they have put into circulation by making them available on the market. If they find that the balance of coins in circulation is negative, then they put some more up for sale. If they have given out too many, they don't put any up for sale until the balance is redressed by people buying boosters or extending registration. It seems fairly simple to me ...

I'm not sure whether the cashing-out feature is part of the reasoning behind this but, if it is, I'd rather see that removed than the withdrawal of GCs from the market.

Hugs and respect

Jo

I agree with Jo Salkilld and hey guy Romeo Vicardi, you have no idea what you are talking about, once people reach higher war level they use those gold coins to buy weapons, upgrade corporations and for space operations not just for extending their empires and enterprises, gold coins will dwindle in time to the point where players will not be able to find get their hands on them. Already someone was offering to buy gold coins for more than what they where worth in a private market. Its classic economics, once they level up to a higher war level it will make it harder for them to get gold coins each time. Some people have simply to many enterprises and countries on each world, which means if the average vet has 5 countries and one enterprise on each world and wants to extend that they will have to use up 900 golc coins a month. Players like me who do pay but are only on one world do so becuase of the cost associated of being on other worlds. I would like to move to other worlds as well but with no more gold coins coming from the GM it will make it hard. Crafty i do not know why you got all defensive about this in another post i made on gold coins. Listen to what jo is saying and that i have been trying to make as well. What will vets do when they can no longer buy gold coins from the GM using the profits they make from their countries, enterprises or raiding, they will run out fast. Jo is not wrong and is not contradicting himself. I clearly understand the point he is trying to make. forcing people to win gold coins through war or leveling up is not the answer, some people like to play the economic side of the game and do not care for war. The solution i think jo would agree is to make everything be based on game cash and take out gold coins for good, let the game be run on game cash, prizes, direct trading and spacemarket items, money for game cash ext. I do no understand why we need gold coins. In every online game i have ever played their has only been one currency of in game cash, having two in game cash currencies makes it difficult for players to understand the game and more complicated for everyone.

Jo,

I quote from the previous. You probably did not read.

You described in details why the gold coins are needed so we can all play for free for ever and never need to purchase anything.

The gold coin market is a major error and should never come back.
Please remove the other feature allowing players to sell gold coins for game money.
Only the gamemaster should be in that business.

Weapons can be bought for game money. Upgrades too. If you want many, pay for them.

Where did you get the idea that all this has to be for free?
Some you can buy and pay with game money. If you want other stuff, pay for it.
why do you think these guys need to provide this for free?

They made a terrible error putting this function in. I am sure it has cost them a fortune and I am quite sure it will never come back.
We will soon get some players saying they leave but these are people who do not need to pay for anything because they got everything for free anyway so where is the damage?
Newcomers will play the game with no gold coins provided by the gamemaster as I did a couple of years ago.

I also know that what turned all the lights off were these cries about how much this country and that enterprise should make.

They should remove all these escapes that allow everyone to play for free and even better,
reset all worlds and get rid of all the accumulated crap.

My point exactly we should get rid of gold coins and make everything about game cash.

I have not been able to get coins through direct trading for the past 3 days, there has also been no offers. Well at least I have not seen them because they are gone really fast.

Romeo,

Take it easy. I will give you this one:

We indeed realized that many players think that we should provide them with all the gold coins they need.

I don't know about the other recommendations. I don't think that a reset is considered right now but we also think that the assets situation is unbalanced and might be beyond repair.

How can assets be unbalanced? All the assets I have I earned from 5 years of playing this game.
If the GM decides on a reset, I better get compensated for my years of hard work.

I think gold coins should still be a part of this game. Someone needs money, they sell gcs, someone needs gcs they sell game cash. The profits in countries/CEOs are way down, so it would be next to impossible to use game cash to purchase all things needed in this game.

And dont even get me started with the war engine in this game. Its getting harder and harder to maintain an army, no wonder there isnt many wars.

Hi all.
Anyone know Why there is a restraint on how much I can request for a GC? Is it not my GC? to ask for what I wish for it?
I want more than 79B for it. I want 85B for it ;)

Actually, thinking about it, I want 100B for it

Why can't I put my GC on the Market for 100B?

Dam it. That has annoyed me now. First time I have ever been told what I can and can't do with something I own! (apart from my car and my ciggy) ;)

I'm not sure what is meant by 'play for free'.

I pay to extend my account registration every 3 / 6 / 9 months. Since I paid for it, I expect to be able to play for that length of time. I don't cash out gold coins for real cash, nor do I want to.

However, I do want to be able to purchase enough GCs to play for the length of my paid registration, and allow me a few luxuries like a cargo shuttle or two, a couple of boosters and some more population to offset my retirement bubbles, without having to pay out more real money for them.

If, by 'play for free' you mean 'exchange GCs for real cash so that the price of extending my account is covered', then the simplest way to stop that, without penalising all the other aspects of GC usage, is to stop the cashing-out feature. That way, if players are successful enough to buy GCs with SimCountry cash, then they can only 'spend' them on game features and no one is playing 'for free'.

I consider this game to be value for money. It costs me $4 a month to play this game, and that's fine. If it starts costing more, because players have to use real cash to purchase GCs that they cannot buy in any other way, my main concern is that the game will become less affordable and will lose players.

Again, it's all down to the maths. If the GMs withdraw from the GC market, will the number of available GCs per player decrease? If not, then there isn't a problem. If yes, then it needs a rethink.

Hugs and respect

Jo

I saw your suggestion that the gold coins the game master is getting from players should be put back to the players.
Amazing.
why is that?
I don't think you have ever tried to place yourself on their side and tried to understand what they do.
I learned to do that to understand what moved people and businesses.
I would say: they should have never introduced any such stupid function that takes money earned form enterprises that make a trillion per game month and turned it into gold coins that can pay for membership.
I am sure that these remarks about how much an enterprise or a country should make, during the numbers decline fiasco we had last week and the remarks about putting back the gold coins to the players that came from you, made Jozi and their investors take this decision.

They will probably turn off the servers before they turn this feature back on. At least I hope so and told them so.

Most players today, can extend their account for gold coins. 6 GCs per day.
the older players have some other advantages but cannot do this.
I think that was stupid too. Turn it off!

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Every time i log into simcountry so far this week this is what i see in the direct trading "There are currently no Gold Coins on the market. "

Tell me GM how am i supposed to buy pop from you when i can not even get gold coins in the direct market.

If you made in game friends Quetz, you would not find it so hard to get coins. Please calm your complaining now, you've made your point.

Romeo, firstly I didn't make any remarks about "putting back the gold coins to the players" until after W3C announced this decision, so they did not take it because of anything I said.

Secondly, I run companies for a living so I fully understand the principle involved in making a business viable. But W3C is a massive organisation and SimCountry is a tiny, tiny part of what they do. Don't make the mistake of thinking that the entire future of the company rests on them making a massive profit out of this game. It doesn't.

However, that does not mitigate the fact that the part of W3C that deals with SimCountry needs to, at least, balance the books in order to make it viable. I understand that.

But is that what we are talking about here? I don't think so. If this move by the GMs is all about W3C making a loss on SimCountry, and needing to change that into making a profit, then the registration fee is too low and they need to increase it. Simple economics. But I doubt very much that this move has anything to do with that.

There are three currencies involved here. Real cash, SimCountry cash, and Gold Coins. The GMs chose to create two virtual currencies, not one, so there must have been a reason behind it. Both SimCountry cash and GCs are limited (by the GMs) in the way they are generated and the way they can be used.

The GMs have been rebalancing the two for a while now, and the players have been complaining. The balance was out for a long time, and I can understand where the complaints came from, but I am now seeing it get back to where it was, just with smaller numbers, which is what the GMs have said all along that they were trying to achieve. Fair enough.

I'm not saying that the GMs shouldn't withdraw from the GC market, I'm just not convinced as to the potential effect on the game, or the reasons why they feel they need to. The only reason that makes sense to me is to limit the cashing-out feature, but that can be addressed in so many other ways that are (potentially) less damaging in their effect. Or perhaps Andy can explain the logic behind doing it from a business POV (if that's where it comes from, as Romeo suggests) or from a game POV if not ...

My concern is the potential effect on the game if the number of GCs per player in circulation declines further and further. If Andy has the figures to prove that this move will not gradually and continually reduce that, to the point where no one has enough coins to play for their registration period without having to pay out more real cash, then all he needs to do is to say so and I will happily concede the point.

Hugs and respect

Jo

Andy 'but we also think that the assets situation is unbalanced and might be beyond repair.'

Please enlighten me on that one. Has this simulator simulated the fate of the western capitalistic society?

+1

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