Ukraine mobilizes after Putin's 'declaration of war'

how is NATO "fascist" if anyone is fascist it is Russia (read putinism)

Ha,

To Johndoe677..

O Russia, for ever youre strong sacred country !
O Russia, for ever the land that we love!
The fame that is great and the will that is mighty
So be they thy treasure in ages to come.
Praised be the Fatherland, cherishing home of ours
Centries-old union of peoples in free,
Popular wisdom given us by ancestors.
Praised be our country! And were proud of thee!
From seas in the South and up to polar border
Our woods and our meadows have stretched far away.
Alone in the whole world, you stand one and only!
By God saved as ever our dear native land.
Praised be the Fatherland, cherishing home of ours
Centries-old union of peoples in free,
Popular wisdom given us by ancestors.
Praised be our country! And were proud of thee!
For generous dreaming, for life and for longing
The years approaching give us ample scope.
With faith in our Homeland we are getting stronger.
It was so, it is so and it will be so!
Praised be the Fatherland, cherishing home of ours
Centries-old union of peoples in free,
Popular wisdom given us by ancestors.
Praised be our country! And were proud of thee!

JD, the point of the second amendment, struck at the core ot the american revolution, after all diplomatic attempts to change the oppressive rule of the king failed, the oppressors moved to take away the populations ability to defend themselves. the second amendment it the heart of the "the people rule" how many countries have had fake elections for years and years, until the people said no, over the barrel of a gun. restricting gun laws, combined with some of the amazing things american politians will do to stay in power, IS scary.

if you look at this Ukraine thing, our own american politicians say its an illegal election, that wouldn't even be offered as a solution, except by force of arms... go figure, to the rest of the world, if your russian, you allowed to wear funny hats, but should you want to be russian, a part of russia, or have your own opinions about homosexuality, then your wrong, and have to conform to the western view, of what a "russian," should be.

what are these restricting gun laws you speak of..... in the past 20 years the only gun legislation at the federal level has been background checks for handguns and a law against guns in schools which seems pretty fucking reasonable to me..... what amazing things have you heard? remember that one about the scientifically illiterate fellow commenting on when a women gets raped "the whole thing just shuts down" that was pretty amazing.... or what about the on the anti gay bill in arizona that was vetoed "because it was broadly worded" not because its discriminatory and un-American ..... again pretty amazon..... but what am i saying josias we both know you don't need any help with your fear mongering..... btw to anyone who doesn't like the western/liberalist view of things IF YOU DONT LIKE IT GO TO RUSSIA they have a wonderful flat tax which is fair to everyone especially to rich people you can rag on homosexuals all you want and if you own your own business you can discriminate based on religion! if they don't like it then you can put them out on their ass...... doubt jesus will take care of them though and sure as shit putin won't......... oh and josias last i checked the second amendment wasnt in caps in the bill of rights..... i assure you you're missing out on the rest of our great constitution and bill of rights

ok then che

HaHa... Here we have a 'liberal' who says everyone has the right to be who they want to be but then says....

<!-Quote-!>Quote:

btw to anyone who doesn't like the western/liberalist view of things IF YOU DONT LIKE IT GO TO RUSSIA<!-/Quote-!>

Why is it wrong for a person to say they are christian, believe marriage is between a woman and a man and/or want to keep the right to bear arms? Why are those people called racists, bigots, etc... All the while liberals spew hate but then its called 'progressive'?

I agree Serpent, it's not wrong for anyone to say, think or believe in any of those things mentioned. I myself have been called a bigot on this game alone.

Anyway, in terms of the crisis in Crimea, just remember in that region, that the majority of the people there are ethnic Russians, like Craigwilliamson said. I feel in some way it is Ukraines fault for not colonizing Crimea quick enough with their own ethnic Ukrainians over the years they have had it. If the majority there were ethnic Ukrainians instead, none of this would have happened.

There is one thing i'm concerned about though, is that I think Putin has the upper hand in this crisis since most of Europe relies on Russian oil and gas and could well use that as leverage against us and cut us off to most of those supplies in the short run, or even the long run. He could however, always sell the oil and gas to the resource hungry countries of China and India instead who are always in need of it.

I don't want Progressives to hate me or call me a racist but what can I do? I must chose what is more important having my Gun's Religion and sexual pref. I suppose sell my guns I could give up my God but i'll be damed if i'll give myself up to a dude. That will make progressives love me but it sounds like a pain in the ass.

Haha, Alterd Carbon..

Very good points Serpent!

your actually kinda what i'm talking about JD, If i choose to value christian and conservative beliefs, then i'm accused of being hateful, and ignorant. how ever, i have as much right to believe God, as you do to deny him. the problem occurs, when one pushing the ideals on another. creating a grey area, because its difficult for some ideas, or principles to co-exsist.

given that, what wrong for russia to value their morality? to have their own set of beliefs? and what wrong for russians to value being a part of russia? the only argument against that, is that the western powers made an agreement with the Ukraine, to support the current borders, in exchange for removing their nuclear weapons.

how ever, that agreement, valued the opinion of the anti-russian ukraine, and took no consideration into the pro-russian crimea, how can we value democracy, when we deny the right of the people to vote on issues that matter to them, and force them into an economic partnership that don't want, because its to our advantage on the other side of the world while we gayly parade around claiming to value freedom, and democracy.

this is a clear example that we only value our freedom, and our democracy, and the rest of the world is free to have elections, and value what ever morality they choose, as long as it just like us!

the separation of "peoples" who don't like each other is something i've long supported, just looking at my CEO, "Thursdays Secession" with "we will secede this thursday, and every thursday here after, until our demands are meant," is part of the northern california seperationist history, you can look it up online, "Jefferson state,"

just as conservative northern cali is dramatically different from liberal southern cali, the over whelming vote of LA and SF floods out the rest of the state. most of the early economic issues have been revolved, but NorCal remains very, very, different. i can truly sympasize with these russians in crimea, wanting to be attacted to russia, rather than ukrain. and if we actually valued democracy, and freedom, we'd take a different approach to the current crises, more of getting in their to ensure the elections where fair. rather than just plain deny them their right to voice their opinion.

YOU CAN BE WHOEVER YOU WANT TO BE JUST DO IT IN RUSSIA!!!

serpent i thought it was obvious i was being sarcastic sorry.... kind of a play on the common mantra of the red scare fear mongers back in the cold war days

we weren't talking about gay marriage

and FYI i do support the right to bear arms I'm just sick of conservatives over hyping everything i believe it was the NRA chairman who went on the CPAC podium and started ranting blatant lies about how obama was using heavy-handed executive orders so he could take your guns which is completely false.... went on about how theres terrorists car jackers home breakers etc etc and we need to defend ourselves first against Obamas oppressive regime and second against the criminals coming to burn our suburbs.... fear mongering

James what do you think about the elections they just had .....96% voted to join Russia? seems an unlikely number which makes one skeptical but if its true we can't hardly go on the war path as John Mccain seems to want to do

lol alterd

Josias the Russians can do whatever the hell they want I'm just describing the picture i see in Russia... i see it as very extreme and not very good and then it troubles me when i see politicians over here (Buchanan) talking about how Russia is more American then America and maybe we would be better off with a strong christian in charge like Putin Oo

again I'm not claiming that we should impose liberalist ideals on other countries I'm fine as long as they are here

seems we agree on crimea mostly but it should be noted at least from my viewing of Fox News that it is the Conservatives attacking Obama for being weak in Crimea etc etc

the contrary argument to ours is that Ukraine is an ally and we shouldn't let them be invaded and then say o well when Putin has elections after occupying the area (i believe Russia is known for rigged elections) but basically Putin didn't go through the proper channels to acquire the Crimea and we should sanction him for that.... i think Obama has handled it well enough... eventually we will recognize the annexation no worries

again josias any examples of crazy things politicians say or oppressive gun control? it would really be a bummer if some dictator took over the country after taking our guns and i didn't even see it coming

IMO..the german union along with the american regime are putting the finishing the
encirclement of the russian federation, why now?

1. well putin's system at the this current time is the only one left standing up for
the human race!

2. russia does not seek to allow boys to wear a damn dress & snug with eachother in the
schools, or allow men to become second class citizens in they're own home!

3. he stands against the zionist regimes some of whom are posing as muslims or nazi's..

4. Putin and his people have a very short time to survive as long as this corrupt & inhuman
banking system remains in controll of the world, so crimea was just his way of saying
im ready lets go B*tch lol.

yea, i'm not really sure i can get behind the invasion, although the point of protecting russians, given the turmoil, does have some creditability. so i guess either way, not really sure.

as far as obama's handling of it? saying their will be costs, is pretty laughable, we aren't going to counter invade, or send a peace keeping force, and as pointed out in above posts, economic sanctions would probably back fire.

but I do agree that the high percentage, was either rigged, or those opposed didn't feel very safe voting. thats why i'm saying the best option, would have been to find a way to ensure the elections where fair. if we weren't blowing hot-air threats, but instead used our relations with ukraine, to get the entire thing to slow down long enough for the UN to send in the teams needed to ensure a fair election, it probably would have had more accurate results, but probably ended with the same conclusion.

which is what my point is, the reason that we in the west are opposing these elections, is not on the bases that they would be rigged, even a fair vote would probably result the same. no, we are opposed to it, because we don't like the results. says allot for how much our politicians actually value democracy, doesn't it? denying the people most involved their right to speak their mind? so yes, the point of gun control is an important one.

We lack a mediator to the world as there is no neutral party. Their is nothing to bring us together to reach any agreement.
The US usually says more at this point, but they can't with a domestic president vs a world issue. Oh but before I get to far on Obama, Bush set him up to fail, with his no weapons of mass destruction. Low trust makes it hard for a domestic president to move forward with a strong diplomatic push like of the past. The president can't do more because the people are torn with him and neither parties involved in those US domestic issues can figure what to do next. We are right back to the cold war era power struggle 2.0. So as the World is paused on the questions of who do we trust, Russia does what it is going to do to flex its power and resolve.

The US's divisions internally is preventing an action. Obama is too weak on that front to pull a Bush. Ukraine is being forced to act and worse case is Ukraine will lose and Russia will start to reunite. No one will help them and Russia then can flex more, or stop.

He flexes it more and that will be the start of a World action, but it will be way too late by then as history would repeat itself, but this time a whole bunch of new weapons is owned and tested by many world powers. We are not just speaking of nukes, but EMP and power suits for the army. This would be a war on speed compared to previous wars if it hit a world scale.
Despite all that now we have words (US) spoken that make it hard to change course. The world holds on to everything the US says since its in the world light. So, even if Obama were to say if the Russians want to be reunited then good we can understand this from out own past as well. It seems too late at this point, anyways.

There are a lot of good points a lot of you have made and it shows there is hope to prevent a WW event, but can our leaders of the world do it when they are put on the spot? And if the Russia feels threatened by the US constant advances in the world, does it not make them feel the same way when the US felt during the Cuban Missile Crisis? Or is there something they really don't want you to know about this power struggle and what it really involves besides the obvious Black Sea control?

MY last point: I just don't want to live in a Hitler inspired world, though we kinda already do to some point at least we have thus far avoided a dictatorial world society. And lets avoid that not for our sake, which is stupid for us to think just of now, but for our future and the sake of the people of the world.

The problem is much deeper than Crimea, Ukraine or Syria. The problem is that the US under Obama are progressively withdrawing from their military commitments in large parts of the globe because they simply cannot afford to pay for their "global cop" status any more.

I don't blame Obama for this but I do blame GWB and the senseless wars he dragged the US to (especially the second Iraqi war and the subsequent costly occupation for so many years of such a large country), squandering every budget surplus he received from the Clinton era and turning it into huge deficits.

Putin, and many other leaders around the world, are sensing the US withdrawal from the eastern hemisphere and the lack of any other major power to take its place. The US and the EU can grumble and bitch all they want, but Putin and Assad know its all talk and empty threats.

And this is the least of the world's problems I'm afraid: Only imagine what messages this situation sends to people like Kim Jong Un and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad...

Seriously guys back up... the worlds in turmoil and you guys don't like it.... I mean hec come on guys this means there will be a brand new style of Call of duty coming out!! :D :D :D

*cough... just trying to cheer this thread up that bit more!

"This is a major game of double standards, So it was legal, from the point of view of international politics, to separate Serbia 10 years ago and take Kosovo away from it through a referendum. It turns out that trying to take away the Falkland Islands, which are located here in Latin America, through a forged and illegal referendum, was justified for Europe and Britain. But when it comes to the people of Crimea, who want a referendum and choose a peaceful future for themselves, this is illegal,".

What has happened in Crimea is a response to the format that made Ukrainian democracy collapse. And there is only one reason for this: the anti-Russian policy of the US and some European countries. They seek to encircle Russia in order to weaken and eventually destroy it.
- Nicolas Maduro aKa The bus driver

thanks che for your scathingly insightful analysis of Putin obviously Crimea is his way of saying "lets go bitch"

good point tacky

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad actually isn't in power any longer

Europe and Japan should remilitirize I think


drys idk how you go from takeover of crimea to nuke world war and super halo soldiers..... people should stop speculating so much noone can see the future regardless of how many cherry picked historical parrallels you see

RAM Jerusalem was never defacto designated as Palestinian nor Israeli, right now, its in the right hands if you ask me...

"IMO..the -{german union}- along with the american regime are putting the finishing the
encirclement of the russian federation, why now?"


You flatter che... But Russia is in the wrong here nonetheless... I don't think anyone even remembered Russia existed other than in Syria and Iran before this happened, you your belief that the world wants to destroy Russia is irrelevant.

Christos, I couldn't possibly agree more with you.

It seams all it takes is one little act of aggression and people are right back in the cold war. For myself Tv is much more fun when large armies cross international borders its better than lisening people pissing and moaning about who got there asses Droned.

"I don't think anyone even remembered Russia existed other than in Syria and Iran before this happened"
- Aussteigen

You're right aussteigen, nobody accept the poor & hungry isolated,nato surrounded nations gave a damn about russia..
but the german/union & amerika oh my you hear about them everyehere in the playground, or the beach hell even when im getting laid
amerika or the GU, pops up so you're absolutely right only the people of sorrow & suffering care to remember the russians existed.

Now as for russia's actions in crimea, i do think putin made a small mistake sending in those unmarked soldiers haha whom everyone could
clearly see they we're russian forces yet he still denies it to this day, but the GU & nato left him with few options so
he did what he had to do.

"An Atlas Shrugged,
Lifted the Heavy Object,
and cast it a sunder".