The Great Recession

I'm curious to know what you think were the causes of the ongoing crisis? And why we are still in this mess?

Conspiracy aside...

Housing Collapse
Bank Bailouts
Quantitative easing is only prolonging a meaningful recovery.

Why we are still in this mess?

QE obviously, but a hidden factor.

I think a better question would be, 'Why won't we come out of it, and why?

The Global Financial Crisis coupled with the growing mideast unrest, that is now resurfacing in Europe along with hints of unrest coming to the USA will lead to the reasoning that Local governance is no longer a viable form of governance. Global oversight is needed. Global oversight in whatever form it may come in via Nato extension or a revived United Nations, is the only way to combat issues that affect global economic and military stability. Look for Global Terrorism, Future talk of Total Global Economic collapse, and regional instability caused by the mideast unrest spreading outward as the rationale and catalyst for global moves in the direction of global oversight and governance.

And I left a ton of conspiracy stuff backing all that up out of it.

The desire of the governing class to have this global system ( aka New world order) is causing them to destroy the world economic system. The excessive debt, government regulation, and easy monetary policy are all part of the mix. Also, left leaning groups are spreading unrest through the world which will continue to create additional uncertainty and chaos.

I sense much Glenn beck in you Danny. Left-Leaning groups' could be more easily and believable substituted with 'CIA'. If there is any doubt about that, do some research. Unrest is fueled by degrading standards of living conditions, not some conspiratorial nudging of left-leaning groups. Although I will say that Obama has done a fine job of encouraging the Libyan rebels to march to their deaths. That would be the only left-leaning antagonism I can verify. I am far from accepting any of the rhetoric about Ghadaffi being some citizen killing terrorist to his own people. He has taken that country in a very positive direction over the last 20+ years almost always at the cost of international poker chips. The US, Europe, and France especially has been holding his hand for the last decade. So suddenly have we changed the tune. I would venture to say above the obvious motivation OIL, that the real reason we have intervened in Libya is the growing Chinese influence in Africa. We probably want an American friendly regime in Libya before Ghadaffi outright pledges his oil to China as Chavez has.

Nevertheless, left leaning groups have historically comprised most Unions. Reading into that line would be like saying it is hot today because the sun is shining. If workers are protesting because of pensions or wages. Would you not expect Unions to be present or even organizing given that they are organized labor? Comon. Likewise shall we say the unrest in Europe has anything to do with the left-leaning groups? Are students protesting increases in education left-leaning? You could say that if you used the 2008 US Presidential elections ONLY where students were decidedly voting democratic and pushed Obama to an easy victory. Historically that wouldn't be accurate however. And in Egypt, Tunisia, Jordan, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, they don't even practice Democracy as we do, what could possibly be left or right about those uprisings? I need some factual basis for this accusation to take a bite.

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I'm curious to know what you think were the causes of the ongoing crisis? And why we are still in this mess?<!-/Quote-!>

Haha, I hope you're ready for a great many conspiracy theories.

Inefficient allocation of resources.

Excellent question, Laguna:

My own views:

1. Fundamental shifts in the legal and economic sytems of the US and European societies, some dating back to the late 19th Century, many as a result of The Great Depression, WWI & WWII and their aftermath.

2. Major decisions made in the early seventies regarding monetary policy.

3. The End of the Cold War and the resulting economic shift and displacement of major economic actors.

4. The decision of the world's major economic actors to attempt a world free trade system.
(a mistake, in my view. Slavery destroyed the Roman Republic; I forsee no better outcome for the modern equivalent.) Service economies do not create wealth.

5. The dismantling of major banking and financial regulations during the 90's giving rise to the very practices that caused the Crash of '29 and inventing some new one's, eg Derivatives Markets.

6. The cumulative effects of all of the above failing to be addressed by responsible governmental( read Legislative/Judicial) action.

7. Feeding off of #6, the complete paralyzation of the national political processes for positive action of practically every major country with representative, multi-party government.

Please spare me any replies based on political ideology, unless you want to be seriously abused.
You have been warned.

Free Trade = Slavery?

Right . . .

Oh boy.

Modern equivalent of slavery = Wage slavery and bound labor systems, not free trade. Don't be coy, Scarlet.

It continually amazes me how many "Free Marketeers" are completely ignorant of economics.

Read your Adam Smith and John Stuart Mill.

Please explain wage slavery. I've never heard that term used before.

wage slave

noun a person who works for a wage, especially with total and immediate dependency on the income derived from such labor.

Origin:
1885-90

related forms
wage slavery, noun

Wendy,

Actually you are correct about the US Govt involvement in the unrest, although I would say its more State Dept than CIA. Also, you have the ICG. We have also exported food price inflation with QE1-99. Linebacker - good points except for the wage/ slave comment, I'm baffled by that one.

Things that are happening now are not new. This sort of thing happens over and over again, throughout history.

We're just more "connected" now. Something that 100 years ago might have been bad for one nation with small ripples in it's close trading partners causes much bigger ripples now, that go much further.

This too, shall pass.

Danny I have a few vidoes about 10 minutes each that would explain in great detail the system we are currently taking part of. Modern Slavery. In my own opinion this is truly happening. If you work for a company and get taxed on your earnings, and live paycheck to paycheck, you are enslaved to the system. Having to perform certain duties to 'get by' and never having prospect or opportunity to advance from that 'rat race' so to speak. I have a hard time separating my thoughts into something not so long. The videos will go a long way to demonstrate the concept. I'll get them and upload them to my you-tube shortly and link them here.

Ever hear of "company stores" or "mining towns"?

These were examples of the attempt at bound labor systems, here, in the US during the late 1800's. They, and related practices, gave rise to the term "wage slavery" as wonderfully defined by Wendy.

Eventually, these practices were banned by law.

However, they have a long history throughout the 3rd World, most particularly, in the last 20 years.

The modern incarnation are typified by "sweat shops", traditionally with the textile and garment industries.

However, the practice has expanded geometrically with the mass exodus of manufacturing from the US and other industrialized nations to the 3rd World.

It is a doubly foolish process whereby, the wealth creating engines af any economic system are isolated from the larger domestic economy and funnel capital into fewer hands, neither benefiting the market country, nor the host country.

Translation: Moving our industry to 3rd world countries paying literally substinence wages to workers who are trapped by various means in their occupations helps neither the developing world, nor our economies. The popular argument that "cheap" goods support a higher standard of living in developed countries is specious as they merely stave off the effects of declining real wages and concentrate wealth, capital, into relatively few hands as the economic activity is not permitted to flow throughout normal processes through a domestic economy.

Tristan's comments regarding the history and cyclical nature of these practices are right on the money. However, the most common results are economic and social unrest, frequently resulting in revolutions and wars.

For anyone who truly believes in "free" markets, these are very disturbing developements.

Try The Economy of Cities by Jane Jacobs for a very thought provoking look at modern socio-economics. Take particular note of her "Third Force" postulate. Examination of recent trends considered against the absence of this force should be quite revealing.

It would be better for everyone if the evil capitalists didn't outsource to hire third world workers. Except the third world workers, who would then be unemployed . . . but who cares? I'm not a third world worker.

John, your ability to regurgitate political ideology is impressive.

You were warned.

The present conception of "Free Trade" is neither "free", nor "trade" in the economic sense of the word. This system, as it is being implemented, depends on barriers being maintained that prevent the free flow of all economic factors, most especially labor, while preventing the functioning of the traditional leveling and moderating influences of regulatory agencies.
The quasi-Libertarian worldview of the sort being trumpeted today is a much a collection of myths, misconceptions, and misrepresentations as anything Lenin and Marx ever perpetrated.

The greatest threat to the functioning of free economies is the over-concentration of capital in entrenched politico-economic interests.

That is precisely the situation that has been developing for the last century, and accelerating since the end of the Cold War.

Until third world countries develope reasonably functioning institutions of government and society that allow them to operate on a level playing field with the develped world, they will merely be another raw resource of exra-econmic exploitation. This is simply another manifestation of colonial mercantilism with the added twist of also contracting the economy of the "mother" nation as well.

As to those workers simply being "unemployed" as opposed to wage slaves in transnational corporate latifundia, please check the Eurocentric arrogance at the door.

Those workers were peasant farmers and craftspeople and would be again.

While there is no inherent nobility in poverty, at least there is some found in freedom of destiny.

The organized rejection of this very one-sided "free trade" arrangement by much of the Third World should speak volumes about what is fact and what is propaganda.

Since I have no economics background and absolutely no knowledge of how the economy runs, I believe I am the most qualified to comment on the current crisis.

1.) It's the Fed. That's obvious enough.
2.) It's Bushama as well. They suck.
3.) It's big business and banks because the are greedy.
4.) It's Crafty. That bastard has his grubby little hands all over this mess.

There you go. Facts supported by detailed rationale. You may close the debate.

It's not the 1950's in America any more.

Black people can vote now.

Hispanic people can vote now.

And Asia is building everything from 10cent items to Jet Planes now.

And the Republicans & Liberals want us to believe deficit spending is good for America.

What was that great line? "Fighting for Peace is like fucking for Virginity"

Let's all move to Montana..Lock and Load Baby!

So the ongoing crisis is caused by free trade, though what is called free trade is not free trade.

How about this: what IS the "ongoing crisis"?

Economic recession.

Wow,
For America there are several cuases. They are still in a mess becuase the cuases are not fixed.

How to get out?
*Turn off Fox news, propaganda is bad for you.
*Realize the world isn't going to end in 2012 and if it does, you can't take it with you.
*Stop flipping houses.
*Buy substantual products that are made in America.
*Boycot unregulated and manditory insurance.
*Protest foriegn occupation.
*Protest for the seperation of Enterprise and State.
*Don't vote for the party of the stinking rich.
*Don't vote for the party of the rich.
(hmm, that would mean don't vote, lol)

*@#&% it revolt like evryone else. ;)

there is a solution:

Vote for Pedro!

@Maestro: As someone who was raised in Montana, I can assure you, they don't want you. They'll take your tourist money, but they aren't interested in a bunch of big city intellectuals moving to their state and trying to change things.