Enterprises (Kebir Blue)

I agree with Ramasas, base production quantity changes for factories really should be announced.

Agreed to all your comments, thank you all for replying to my thread. When I first started having an enterprise, it was not uncommon to be making a healthy 30B or so per game month, not profit, but what you actually got. Out of a good diverse enterprise of about 700 corps, it was good. The crappy corps died out with the weight of loans, the good ones where left standing, you simply added more of those good corps to replace the ones that either died out, or the ones that you got tired of trying to save and closed them, or let them close on there own. As far as I have seen, costs has gone up slowly over the course of many real months.. for supplies, upgrades.. ect. On top of that you have now the new auto transfers that now make it difficult to see whats happening to the failing corps thats costing your enterprise huge amounts to keep. And they wont close because of the auto transfer keeps them alive. As for closing corps manually.. here is an example.. say I have 50 corps making coke cans.. and for the longest time, they where a reliable and profit making corp. Now, they suck, almost over night, for some unknown reason. You glance quickly at your 700 corp enterprise and see everything seems ok.. until you realize you suddenly need to inject cash into the enterprise that used to make money... you investigate and find out coke cans are no longer a good corp,,, but they are trillion dollar corps.. 1) keep them? gamble and hope the market changes 2) close them and lose 50T in cash right off the bat and change to pepsi cans... and when you do,hope the market doesn't switch back to coke cans... As far as toms comment about enterprises are now reflected in your country profits... thats just not right. Even if i wanted to, i still have trillion dollar corps i can not IPO to take advantage of this. alot of corps are hovering at just .2 above the required P/E and some have went from 30.2 to 999 over night. These corps i speak of are in my own countries that have 0 profit tranfers and 0 tax worth 1-2T and can't ipo. Granted, it is slightly better then it was a couple months ago, but far from toms game news of ipoing being easier. FAR FAR from it.

yah Homor your not alone we are all going through this. about two weeks ago overnight my enterprise went from number 17 to 11, 6 huge enterpri9ses must of quit the same day you would think closing of their companies would make shortages of products but instead theres actualy less shortages after they closed somehow. it looks like most of them just canceled their old enterprises so they wouldnt have to take the trillions in loses to readjust to these changes, this wild swing from shortages to gluteness and just restarted a new one ive almost done the same with one of mine it would be lot less costly to me and since its movs of gamemaster increasing the production of products wich is the sole reason that one only breaks even now where last month it made 250 bill month.i wouldnt feel to guilty about doing it. id gladly pay an extra dollar a month for my membership if theyd quit tinkering with the production numbers.and product trading markets.

also somthing no ones thinking about and probably isnt an issue yet because no one really is playing in space is, when they move products to space or a differant world that completely throws off the supply and demand chart we so vitaly need to know what to build i know they want the game in space to catch on because theyve invested the programing time and it will create a lot more revenue for them. wich i dont begrudge them theres like 30 players out of 5,000 now in space and they really shouldnt be moving excisting products to space only in my opinion especialy ridicolous ones like nuclear missles and bombers first off they wouldnt even fit on a shuttle and especialy not 500 bombers in one trip the games losing a lot of its realism wich i think is why most of us came here. the selinium wasnt too bad but you can create glass on earth so its still not realistic but its livable with i instead would opt for starting new space companies that make sense and are probably going to be actual space industries like perhaps, advanced pharmacuticals company with one supply being made on each world for that company as new minerals and plants have been discovered throughout time they have always led to new new medicines being developed with them and several tons of products needed would fit in a space shuttle make it a very profitable company to encourage buying the shuttles perhaps countries can have option to buy a supply monthly for an automatic 5 year life expectacy adition or 5 point welfare boost to thier country. rare materials could be another company/product but instead of subtracting from the players gaming experiences by subsidizing space with moving exsisting companies and trade to it. it be much better to add to the game instead and not subtract from the gameplay we now have.all it would require is a little serious thought its pretty ludicrus to try and rationalize strategic bombers towed up into space 500 at a time only to be towed back down and sold on a differant would and say that even though all products used to make them are available in every world somehow the other worlds magicly dont have the technology to produce them.

the things that would/should set each world apart in a more realistic fashion would be minerals,plants and food due to climate not neccesary foods but specialty foods thier purchase could also be a welfare boost posibly also everything else is just well fictional and in my opinion hurts the realism of the game tremendously

not to bump this thread away from the enterprise subject but when i thought about the space products transfered in and out not being counted in supply and demand it kinda got me on a roll about space wich is not my most favorite change to this game ever because id like simulations i play to be as realistic as posible but there definatly is an enterprise problem rather its recognizable by the admins or not its there and it does exsist as testified by all these long time experienced players posts on this thread.

just my opinions not trying to be a bitch just offering my opinion if the game admins are interseted

Now, what has been said.. Tom, do you not agree that a new player starting a new enterprise is damn near impossible? I have an enterprise with 700 corps... hovering on the profit line... IT SAYS im making 450B a month and down to 0 a month... not a negative.... look at my "cash" why is it im losing money???? It needs more detail WHERE my money is going... im trying to simplify this as best i can. Stop with the BS, and stop whatever scheem your up to.

also tommi... no more win win? I invest in my country.. good, i invest in someone elses bad?
Tommi says
"This means that although enterprises should make profits, they are in fact very profitable for the player even if the profit does not show up in the enterprise but instead, paid to the country."

so.. why invest in someone elses country? seems like a piss poor deal to me.....

yes i also agree with homer why would we want to expand our enterprises or build in other peoples countries when it is only profitable for the countries there in and not our ceo enterprises.What if you only have one country youll have your 12 their but 100 somewhere else only making the country its in money or even what if you dont own any countries and are playing just the ceo game whats the point there please help us to resolve this tom willard this is costing alot of players alot of money

ok i was waiting for serrver to update so i thought hey numbers never lie so ill see if thsis really this big of a problem or not

i looked at all enterprises per catagories of where they were ranked to see how many showed a current debt, keep in mind you can and probably a lot of these players did inject extra money into thier enterprise most players do from time to time but heres the stats as of 3.44 central us time 9/24

players ranked 1 to 20

15 players showed no debt 5 players showed a current debt

players ranked 21 to 50

15 players showed no debt 13 players showed a current debt

players ranked 51 to 100

24 players showed no debt 27 players showed a current debt

players ranked 101 to 121 ( some of these players havnt built but a few companies and were still using their initial 1 trillion the game awards as start up money so non debbt is bias favoring the no debt catagory just a little )

12 players showed no current debt 8 players showed a current debbt

totals for all catagories = players showing no debt 66 players showing a current debt 53

then you have to factor in how many people have injected extra money or payed of thier current debt ad are losing money idition to the aproximently 48 % that curently show they are losing money on their enterprises.

i dont know if thats the range of success the game creators have in mind or not but thats the actual numbers

it would seem to me thats an awfull lot of lost revenue the game owners are missing out on as over 48 percent of these accounts or more must quit the enterprise side of the game after being in it a while or right off the bat.

the flip side of that would be the less money people make the more gold coins the gamemaster sells, but that 62 percent success rate is the same 62 players while the other 48 percent come and go continuesly after trying it. true they may get that failing 48 percent to buy an additional 15 coins/3 trillion or so as a one time cash injection posibly twice but how many would continuosly pour money into a losing enterprise and to flip it again that 15 coins is less than 1 month of the total a suceeding player pays if you multiply that over a year or two then it becomes 15 coins they sell compared to 720 coins they could get in membership dues for just 1 enterprise, so maybee this is area they could look at improoving to generate more income for thierselves and make players happier at the same time.

ok ive probably bored you all to death now i shall pick up my simplow and go join my simworkers in clearing our simfeild for our next factory now :p

Corporations are becoming bigger. It was announced many times on the game news and we had discussions on the forum about the reasons for it.
We have managed to keep the number of corporations largely unchanged or even reduced it.

In the past two years, many changes, of up to 5% in some corporations have been carried out and resulted in a doubling of the turnover of most corporations during that period.

Production can change for reasons of lack or materials or other but the base numbers, at 100% production never change more than 5%. most times much less and only in a small number each week.

There are very severe shortages that push the prices higher and corporations are profitable, depending on salaries and other parameters.

We are more worried about the possibility that there will be some oversupply and prices will plunge.

Water maintenance is at 200 per month (at 100%) for a long time. there was no reason to change it.
I do not understand this comment.


Enterprises do have a major contribution to countries and many players keep them for this reason.
Enterprises in general should be profitable if handled correctly. we published the numbers yesterday, here are the figures for today:

Profit in enterprises owned by premium members: 17.1 T
Profit in enterprises owned by free members: -350B

The numbers are similar to yesterday but they fluctuate widely.


They might have been much higher in the past but then 1T now is not what it was in the past.

<!-Quote-!>Quote:

as the price is out of our control, we have recently slightly reduced the number of products used by a hospital each month<!-/Quote-!>

So now we do have an admission of messing with supplies, even if it is indirectly.

Now I see why Pharma, MM, and ME have had such a hard time. Of course these are products only used by hospitals, and so the trickle down.

Tom, I emailed you over a week ago about this issue. I recieved no reply.
You consistently underestimate the effects of your changes, every time...

And just a note to point out most corps produce far above 100% poduction capacity so your thinking is warped.

Especially in c3's. Why does a corporation produce more in a c3 then in an empire whose president has spent years and untold trillions in development costs? I know that someone ( and I forgot who ) had requested a fix for the lower production in c3's, and you did fix it. But now the pendulum has swung way too far to the other side. If you need specific examples I will need to dig for them, and I will.

I've begun closing my corps. It just isn't healthy having fit corps lose 55B a year, even in a bad market.

tom we too see the 17.1 trillion in our balance sheets, but what were telling you is that money doesnt make it to us its a bogus figure im 1.3 trillion of that non excistant profit your seeing in the balance sheets,in reality i see 400 billion at the very most, much of the time its much less or even a loss.but my balance sheet consistantly show these numbers

Corporation Data - Total of All Corporations
Cash Flow - Totals in All Corporations
Total Turnover - Products Sold 3,270.44B SC$
Total Salaries -246.77B SC$
Total Materials Cost -1,395.92B SC$
Total Interest Paid -0.02B SC$
Paid to Countries for Resources Used -712.23B SC$
Total Fixed Cost -100.25B SC$
Total Maintenance Cost -187.29B SC$
Total Profit 627.95B SC$


Cash Flow - Totals in All Corporations
Total Turnover - Products Sold 4,027.70B SC$
Total Salaries -296.61B SC$
Total Materials Cost -1,636.52B SC$
Total Interest Paid -0.02B SC$
Paid to Countries for Resources Used -976.05B SC$
Total Fixed Cost -115.90B SC$
Total Maintenance Cost -252.19B SC$
Total Profit 750.42B SC$


and if you say its from buying supplies and closing factories and such then why is profit recieved never that amount or higher than that but always much much lower , and thats if im not even building corps or upgrading or anything, so yeah it sure looks like im living large but i have to come in after hours and sweep up because i cant afford to hire a janitor lol

yeah crafty i noticed in one night medical equipment went from a ten billion shortfall to a huge overabundance putting all my medical related factories into loses also. i believe several products did same thing that night railroad track maintenance, road maintenance someones tinkering with this stuff maybee tom isnt aware of it but its happening i havnt said nothing before cause i thoght well maybee its just me but everyone i talked to says very same thing everyone cant be crazy, i know for a fact im not crazy i have the papers to prove it :p overnight you go from bringing in 200 billion a month to losing or breaking even it happens every month or two last week i was flyin high 400 billion month, but its never been close or even half of what my financial statement reads then boom 0 profit 4 hours later somthin happened cause i didnt change a thing ill guarentee you somthing changed all at once you cant sell water or meds or track n road maintenance all in a one game month span of time us players cant do that to the market in one month of gametime

There should be no fee of 50% of market value to close a corp losing 20+B every year...

On the finance page, there is a line called "Cash transfers to and from corporations." I want this line explained in more detail. This is where I lose money. From what I can see, that amount is always bigger than the amount on my "Total Profit" line at the bottom. So my cash position is always decreasing.
The description of this line talks about moving money between countries and within your empire.
It would be foolish of me to keep this enterprise at this point. I made 173B "profit" last month, but auto-transferred out 220B. The 2 months prior my profit was 300B in each month. However, in both months, my cash position declined. The auto transfer line does not have a history graph, so I don't know those amounts, but I can see my cash position going ever farther negative.
At this point, I will wait til it is so negative that w3c closes it, or the time I paid for it expires.
At 6 months per day and losses close to 250B per month, I am looking 1.5T per real day to stay out of the red.

<!-Quote-!>Quote:

At 6 months per day and losses close to 250B per month, I am looking 1.5T per real day to stay out of the red.<!-/Quote-!>

Quoted for truth.

"At 6 months per day and losses close to 250B per month, I am looking 1.5T per real day to stay out of the red."
"Quoted for truth."

Per enterprise... if you are active over several worlds the losses will mount up quickly...

I think we have this problem cause we are always buying upgrades and supplies and can expand as fast as we want
get rid of the unreliable stuff like defense and gov except hospital
don't have public slow build companies
let the AI handle med equip, med mats, mil service, mil supply
run all the same
don't go over 300 Q

o yeah buy companies for money and tear down
buy and sell stock

Off Mid Range Missiles is another good example of a corp selling a product in super-high demand yet still losing money. I have posted about my country orders for these taking almost 2 years and then switching to immediate order.
Why, then, is every one of my 15 corps that produce MRM's losing money every month? There is a shortage of almost 800,000 this month on LU. The corp produces 55 per month. That is over 53,000 more MRM corps to meet the demand, but they lose money!

ZENTRINO What is your supply quality
I use 155
steel, plastic, alum, all the mining chems work
maybe close down the bad ones and build acquire reliable ones

150-165, depending

I just went through every corp and closed any that lost money for the past year and for the current year. I closed 80 corps out of almost 700. The only ones losing money that I kept were the MRM corps because it makes no sense for them to be losing money. Waiting to see if the Gm has an explanation.

Anyone able to look at these and tell me why 90% of my corps are losing money?

They've been this way ever since i started up my enterprise, and it's really frustrating to have to put (approx) 20 - 30T per real month to keep it running.

Regards

Sunny

It is strange that although the shortage of MRM is deepening, the price is not rising.

Base 27.70M
market 35.16M

Is the a cap on the pice of these? I thought we had done away with price caps. At least extend this one, a cap of 1/3 over market is ridiculously low, and corps cant be very successful. If this isnt it, then what is...?

I run all mine the same
300 sal
155 supply quality
300 Q or close to it
almost all of them make 1 to 1.5 B profit a month
no mil service, no med equips, no mil supply, no med mats, 3 conven bats, hospital only gov, a few cattle feed, no non demand riff raff