W3C - Quality of products

in the real world their is allot of uncertainty. if the world worked like sim country, the current economic problems would be solved by increasing salaries, and building a few more corporations...

maybe having a better idea of how much the supply index will help the welfare index would be cool. but knowing everything exactly, does kinda turn running a country to min/max game.

ignorance is not a valid substitute for uncertainty.

Stop making irrelevant correlations between the real world and these simulated worlds.

<!-Quote-!>Quote:

SimCountry was never intended to be realistic(according to real world standards[my own edit for clarification]) ~The Game Masters<!-/Quote-!>

This makes your comparison to the real world or realism relevant to nothing in simcountry

Knowing how the index is computed is hardly turning this into a minimum/maximum. That is a statement made in ignorance or in stinginess of the value of the present amount of knowledge you have acquired thus far.

Granted, much of the game knowledge I know i have not gleaned from any source gamemaster has supplied. Almost 200% of my success I can attribute to BlueSeprpent and a few simple settings he had suggested one day while complaining about one of my CEO's. But BlueSerpent took time and gave an effort that we all may or may not have to come to the same conclusion, or the patience to employ his methods of figuring out this information. This is unfair to the general game populace.

This game is too dependent on finding some peer to peer help in order to become even modestly successful or Profitable which seems to be the real issue. Peer to Peer support or interaction is in no way a bad thing. But what about the solitary spirit. What of the Lone Wolfah? Everyone isn't a team player. And if we are to make real world comparisons there are many successful and profitable countries that are isolationists or solitary, or isolated by the world body , and so on.

Give a valid reason why the formula, or proposed formula should not be published? Maybe less than half of the people playing the game would be able to use it or the mathmatatics involved to solve the equation to improve their gameplay. Maybe less than half the game would care to look at it or ever use it to their advantage. But why sghould the information be secret.

Post a reasoning on something based on less on your feelings and based on logic.

For example, I have suggested that this will take a large part of guessing out of the game. Eliminate frustration due to a large ignorance of game knowledge. This is one of the biggest factors affecting many, many things in your country ranging from Migration, to corporation productivity. I also assume this would improve player satisfaction, being able to possibly figure out where they are going wrong, yes?

With a formula so complex and dependent on every other index in your country, population selling or purchased and so on, an idea of how this works, at least in theory, should have no black or white outcome for the game.

Why7 if this index needs to be secret do you know the finance index? This information is known to a few players since Wildeyes asked for it in a Jozi Chat. Who knows if it is changed, been altered, is affected by the 'welfare index, which no doubt has changed by admission in the game news which seems unending at present.


What are you logical reasons, not personal feelings, for keeping this information secret. What is this the Illuminati here?

The logical reason is to keep it as a game where experience, gained through reading forums, docs etc, and trial and error leads to success. Basically as Blue and Wild have done. Misunderstanding or lack or willingness to find out info should not be mistaken as confusion. I am wholy against dumbing down the game.

Okay CC.

At what point does game experience come into play when this index has been affected several times due to updates.

Population sale/addition

Salaries

And now(although I have missed some factors **because I don't know them all**KEYNOTE)

An entirely new proposed index that affects an existing one in a way you can never comprehend. Unless you can quantify the word - Important

It takes time to go through forums. Especially when you have no idea what information is trustworthy.

I can take advice from Laguna, or i can go with SuperSoldier, or even Matthew Patton(WoW) who

doesn't even use capital letters
or punctuation
to clue in
where a thought begins or ends
or even post where the subject is relevant
to his posts for that matter

--------------------

Your reasons again are not logical, they are personal

You argue that because Blue and Wild have had the

time, experience with spreadsheets, excel and so forth that they, due to those efforts alone, deserve to be imparted with this knowledge solely? And due to lack of anyone else's exact efforts, despite the reasoning behind the lack their own efforts, do not deserve this knowledge(of the formulas).

It says a lot about the state of the game that
1. Wildeyes even had to ask.
2. Blue and Wildeyes or any other player for that matter, have to put forth such an effort in the first place to figure it out. According to Blue this amounts to 'countless hours' of studying spreadsheets/excel, or whatever other methods he employs

I agree that they have and should have reaped a benefit as a result of their efforts, but at what point does this justify a secret formula to an index that affects almost every part of how your country will perform.

What if I do not go to chat.
What if I do not know who is or isn't informed or trustworthy in order to trust the information they present.

Trial and error would be testing settings or variables at various values based upon what you know to be the formula. Not endless tinkering with settings until you find what is best. With so many factors unknown this is like playing the Powerball and saying, just because I continue guessing which number will eventually hit, I am destined to win one day...wrong.

For example, Wildeyes discussed what the finance index formula was in Jozi chat. She then used this knowledge to exceed in this game at finance. Who knows how many times this formula was changed or altered, and how are we to know that this was the first request. From my own investigation, she had countries making number 1 since way back when I first started, and was making up to 200 gcs per month in some countries at that time.

I modeled her settings and altered them to take over and hold 1st place finance for a very long time before and after that time she asked for the formula without ever using that knowledge. She soon found a way to overtake me yet again.

But lets say, I am not able to make it to chat for Jozi-Chat.
What if I am not knowledgeable enough to know that I can go look at her countries and examine her corps in order to figure a way to mimic her success.

What if I just pay my dues to play, wish to log in, use my common sense to play some finance, declare a war or two and have some fun. Why does this have to be a second job?

I'm not asking that the gms figure and publish the Optimal Settings based on said formula. Which at this point I don't think they have tried to figure out themselves.

What i am saying is publish the formula.

CC thnks for trying but your response is based on we did the hard work why shouldn't everyone else. I am arguing that we should all have to do the hard work as well, but based on finding appropriate settings and such based on the economies and type of countries or gameplay we plan to enjoy.

The publication of the formulas would be the easiest and quickest route to that end. These formulas should be in the docs. We have discussed and even you have agreed that the docs need to be updated and this wouldn't be a bad edition at all.

Furthermore this guessing game is all that the beginners forum is today, confusion clouding confusion.

If none of us know for sure, what we are sharing is true or accurate how can any of use be of any help to anyone using the forum. Do the users have trusted ratings given or added to by users of their advice? No. Just another example of guessing who to listen to.

The forums are not a substitute for docs.
Ignorance is not a substitute for complexity.
Experience and time in is not an decent excuse to deprive any player of the information that players need to avoid all these countless posts of the same exact questions repeated by player after ne player to encounter this game the gms could never answer in a timely fashion about finance, welfare, or any other confusing or complex part of the game.

The volume of these requests are at present mountainous and most likely are at least %50 of the storage space this forum requires on the server.

A shorter version of this post and following CC's logic is this is all tantamount to the blind leading the blind without the formulas.

We need to understand why we are doing whatever we do in the game in order to enjoy and possibly excel at it. The difference between long term players and short is the vast gap of game knowledge. Hands down. I am positive that the statistics would back that claim up %100

Okay, so if I buy food, medicine etc. at higher quality levels, I will see my populations grow faster and see them produce more in the corps?

Because after discovering my population (164.378.438) began shrinking fast, births decreasing and deaths increasing, I tried cut the Back to work schools by 50% (from 10 to 5) and now hope some housewives will do better with more time at home, more time to both make the kids and raise the kids? I just did that adjustment today 15 minutes ago, so ill wait and see now.

My health index is on 130, social security is on 80%, so there is not much left to adjust here I think.

Please tell me if I am totally wrong here ??

What is the average age of your citizens?

I think that you're on the wrong path. A few things to check:

- you're average age
- number of retired people

You're health index is rather high. Higher developed health care means that people live longer. But even those people will at some point die. You've probably got a lot of people dying of old age right now and low birth rates. It sucks but is nothing unusual.

Try keeping you're life expectancy a little bit lower. Retired people are a waste of money and resources anyway.

As for an answer on your first question. Higher welfare means higher spending and higher production. there are many ways to raise the welfare level.
Buying more expansive supllies is not the most effecient way.

This is crazy...

Try searching the forums, I know it's kind of tough. I believe there are a couple of threads on average age and I believe Aries has one on supply quality for optimal welfare.

Heck of a thread necro job there. Reviving a 5-year old thread.

Some general threads on running your country and population growth can be found in these places:

https://www.simcountry.com/discus/messages/1/24202.html?1421188466

https://www.simcountry.com/discus/messages/6/25580.html?1457104003

https://www.simcountry.com/discus/messages/8/25563.html?1456864885

As for what quality to buy products at, it has no effect on population growth nor does back-to-work schools.

Thanks guys for guiding me back on the road again!


Some data:

Average Age is 34.62
Life Expectancy is 65.12
Expected Number of Births is 60,683
Expected Number of Deaths is 2,674,454

Health care index is 130

Sorry to say this but you're going to have to endure it. You've simply got to many old people.

Is anyone else a little sad that this game considers 34 old? Sigh...

I'm aghast at the Life Expectancy. I'm living on borrowed time it seems....