W3C - The Economies of individual Countries (White Giant)

We have looked into many countries recently to see how they are doing in terms of income and cost and how recent changes influence them.

Countries without a president

These countries are very stable and make an income each game month. All these countries receive a financial boost each month and are profitable.

Planned changes

The financial boost can be decreased or eliminated. It is given to new players but C3 countries are doing OK without it.
To increase flexibility in the market, we are looking into the possibility of automatic closure of state corporations in C3 countries that produce products that have a surplus. This will free up some of their work force and enable private corporations to be established in these countries or a replacement by state corporations that produce products that have shortages on the market.

If about 200-300 corporations will be replaced each game month, this will increase mobility and flexibility in the markets. It seems that countries with president are not doing this enough to profit from market situation.

Countries with presidents - new players and players with some experience

Many of these countries are doing now much better than before. Their economies make more profit and in case they had losses, these losses are declining. All these countries receive beginner boosts in money and population.

These countries are profiting from slightly lower prices on the top of the market and their cost is reduced. This is true, not withstanding any increase in market pricing because of shortages.

Their income is in many cases higher. This is also because the profitability of corporations that are not fully upgraded is improved. At the same time, lower salaries and the trend for lower cost of materials, not withstanding the market trends, is helping these countries.

The main problem for such countries is that the cost of defense remains too high and although it did come down recently, the high price of ammunition causes unexpected fluctuations and increase in cost that hampers their ability to build a larger army.

Changes that are needed for these countries

A decrease in the price of ammunition and weapons will lower the price of the army. We hope that the trend will continue and we will try to tune down the base price of these items. The end price will depend on the market.

Countries with experienced presidents

These countries have in general seen their profit per month increase or their losses decline. The results are very different from one country to another and depend on their population and the size of the army.

Some countries may not see such a decrease yet but the long term trend is for the cost to decline.

With high ammunition cost, the total cost of defense is unstable. Some of these countries have huge armies, move weapons into and out of the reserves, initiate population transfers that change the availability of soldiers and officers and make more large transactions that can influence the monthly income and cost in unexpected ways.

The trend is for more stability on the country income and cost with an increase in total profit for the whole group although individual countries will continue to fluctuate.

Changes that are needed for these countries

Some cost and income items make big monthly fluctuations. The reason is that the price of products government purchases can differ a lot. That price is used in the computation of the month cost of health, education, transportation, the army etc.

Using some sliding averages might help here, to apply these changes in a period of several game months allowing for some smoothing effects and even cancelling effects because of these fluctuating prices. Such a change will make country finances less volatile and trends will become more visible.

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Countries with experienced presidents

These countries have in general seen their profit per month increase or their losses decline.<!-/Quote-!>

I would like all veteran players who have been doing better financially to post here! Thanks!

Nope. Not me. I'm making less than ever.

*crickets*

Losing about 20% of my profits over the last few weeks.

My profits have been short 15-20B$ and my CEO acted really strange a few days ago it was making 20b$ a month then jumped to 60B$ without even building more corps then dropped back to 20B$.

As have I.

Revenues declined by 20%, costs declined by 2%...

My country has been going nuts...Especially my CEOs. I'm just glad I make a profit at least.

Keep watching. I know the trends and I know how it is done.
I have seen MANY countries where it has already happened.

cost is declining, look at the graphs now and in the coming weeks.

most of it will come if the price of ammunition is coming down and we see some selling.

OK, so will we be compensated for our current losses that we may have gained because of the so called stealth changes?

Profitability by numbers is WAY down (as was the goal, since numbers in general have declined).

Relative profits from late December to now are fairly stable.

Relative profits from early December to now are WAY WAY down. <----THIS is your problem Tom.


Planned changes

The financial boost can be decreased or eliminated. It is given to new players but C3 countries are doing OK without it.
To increase flexibility in the market, we are looking into the possibility of automatic closure of state corporations in C3 countries that produce products that have a surplus. This will free up some of their work force and enable private corporations to be established in these countries or a replacement by state corporations that produce products that have shortages on the market.

If about 200-300 corporations will be replaced each game month, this will increase mobility and flexibility in the markets. It seems that countries with president are not doing this enough to profit from market situation.


I support this idea.

HOWEVER, maybe you should explain to your players how C3's have been selling 185 quality product, with 100 Quality corporations and 100 Quality supplies? THIS IS THE REASON WHY THEY ARE PROFITABLE. Because C3's CHEAT by design. If you change this to the way REAL players would do it, their profitability would be non-existant.

Q

If profitability were to remain proportional, profit would tend towards 0. Profit did tend towards 0, but it went kept on going and now most of us is in the red. Profitability isn't proportional.

John, I was trying to point out that the main change to cause less profitability (and losses) occurred sometime in mid December. That profitability and losses have been relatively stable since then, but MUCH lower than before (or higher losses than before, or a swing from profits to losses).

My main was making 250b per month last October / November w/ pop in low 40's. Now its making around 150b per month w/ pop in the low 60's. I have had a CEO heavy economy w/ 90-95% private corps.

No longer have I been able to rely on private CEO investment for a high FI, Tom. I have had to grow my economy almost exclusively by building state corps and IPOing them just to keep my FI above 120 for attempting level 6.

My FI was in the 150 range and consistently so before the stealth changes were implemented in mid-December.

IPOs are a LOT more work than CEO advertising and I have been required to go through that pain in the ass just to maintain enough profitability to meet the level 6 requirement, which would've been completely unthinkable before the Quality Nerfing.

That should tell you something...

My profitability is far far down. Hell, my CEOs and countries made a nice profit with me not here for months. I come back, these changes go in, and suddenly I have nothing anywhere close to the profits I had under a policy of benign neglect. I've deactivated huge chunks of military, I've sold off the less profitable countries ... I'm still not making money. Maybe I just need to leave again.

The FI in my main used to be consistently around 250 and now its average of 183. I was making 250B no its about 220B. I cut my military in half and added corps and pop, my main should be making more money not less.


With Regards,
Dragoon

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The main problem for such countries is that the cost of defense remains too high and although it did come down recently, the high price of ammunition causes unexpected fluctuations and increase in cost that hampers their ability to build a larger army.

Changes that are needed for these countries

A decrease in the price of ammunition and weapons will lower the price of the army. We hope that the trend will continue and we will try to tune down the base price of these items. The end price will depend on the market.<!-/Quote-!>

Please, Tom. stop overstating the role of market forces on prices. You have already explained base pricing ranges and are confusing many players who "think" free markets and cannot reconcile their expectations of events with the realities of the SimCountry Command economy.

Many presidents are unaware that in severe shortages for some products, standard are orders are converted to "Immediate" without player knowledge. This is the prime source of expenditure spikes, not mythical fluctuations in command commodities markets whoses prices are controlled to within a few % points by the GM.

Please stop confusing the issues with misleading responses.

my countries profit has been coming down for months.

i'm more concerned that w3c comes across as though theyare saying that all these problems only happen in c3's.

hopefully they meant to imply that the problem is world wide, not just "these (c3) countries"

I should not have to make money appear out of thin air from game master just to be attempt to be competitive in this game. i should be able to be competitive despite what amount of RL money people put into the game, otherwise there is no point to BE skillful in this game - as long as one is able to afford to "appear" skillful.

my economy is stable, makes a profit, but it's insufficient 65b a month profit can buy me what? a bag of chips and a couple bombs? will take RL months to get anywhere decent enough to come out of WP without being jumped on (meanwhile paying gc ever couple days for wp)

its like new players are forced to put in own money into the game, or be forced out of the game. ive been visiting simc chat lately and often people come in and ask me "do i have to pay??? to prevent my country from reseting?" or "my country just reset, i have to pay? or "oh, i didnt know that i had to pay" and when i tell them, bluntly. "yes you have to pay, this is how much it costs" (i could downplay cost and sweet talk them for you, to get them to play, but i'm not PR person for you; i have no obligations) and what do they say" screw this, bye"

i dont care if you dont listen to me; it is irrelevant. but, please listen to the players who actually know what they are talking about.

please pardon my bluntness.

sincerely,

iki-ryo (alexiel)

It seems like people will remain unsatisfied with their income until the price for items drastically decrease. But in order for that to happen people must take the excess money off the market so they can't take advantage of the new price tag on the items.

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I have seen MANY countries where it has already happened.<!-/Quote-!>

How many?

Let's find out. I encourage ALL players to vote in my new exclusive poll titled, "Country Income." Thanks!

lol. hey, why not? :3

BUMP over hezzy with something important

I have seen my income and most costs come down recently.

However, the "General Cost of Government" doesn't seem to have been tweaked at the same time as the rest of the things, so because I have 20+ countries in my empire, my finances have gone through the floor.

Summary:
smaller income
smaller normal costs
SAME cost of government
==> finances destroyed

(I'm not complaining btw, I can raid inactive newbs until the cows come home and loot their beginners bonuses; I'm merely reporting whats happened.)

Tom tells us they run a closed system .. anyone know where the hell "General Cost of Government" goes to when it leaves my treasury?