W3C - The Defense of Countries & Military Units

Gaz
The argument of flexibility in your empire is good.

We could allow wars in war level 3 for all players with an empire that is up to 5 countries.
If you have 5 countries, you can drop one and have another go at a C3 country.

John
I need several examples of weapons that will be defensive and offensive.
(not tanks and artillery and such). Thank you.

Thx Andy.

As a solution I think you's should encourage raiding on FB. And actually incentivise it for newer players. Give conquered c3's more assets and let newer player catch up quicker.

It's only game assets you'd be giving these players not GC's. Game assets cant be taken out the game anyway so GM's not loosing $$$

Did you read the updated message?

I am not worrying about the GM $$$.

we are winning if players are winning.

We will have another look at what we give new players.

We currently give them millions of additional population and lots of cash.

The C3 countries they conquer will not be for assets or gold coins but rather for training and setting up a an empire.

Not even sure we should limit this to FB.

It could be introduce to all worlds and once you have conquered 4 countries you become a war player.
Not so fast I think.
we can try on FB first.

Why the limit of 5? It's to low. Why restrict it at all? Nobody's winning with 5 c3's. Why is it a problem for the game to let players own however many countries they like? Who cares

If it's not for assets then I don't think it's incentivised. I dont really care about the assets tbh.

I just thought it would be a good way to encourage new players to catch up.

The limit restrictions is the problem though. Keep c3's how they are now at level 3, assets wise. just remove the limits

I appreciate the dialogue, Andy!

<!-Quote-!>Quote:

So the problem with war levels on FB is that you need to fight at higher levels.
what is in fact the reason to fight C3 wars?
why not fight PvP wars on FB? wasn't that the idea?<!-/Quote-!>

1. Yes, fighting at higher levels is a problem, but addressing the difficulty of c3s is not going to help. If you make players always fight more and more challenging c3s, there is a limit to fighting. If I go bonkers and go to level 20 in 2 days, I'm done fighting c3s... FOREVER. That's a problem. If you see no benefit to a player to allow them to keep fighting c3s, why block someone from doing so? You're just preventing people from playing your game more.

2. This has been a topic on many recent threads. C3 wars allow a player to move around. If you haven't tried building an empire or fighting in large wars, this isn't as immediately obvious. For those of who have though, this is a critical reason to allow more C3 fighting. What if a new player takes 5 c3s like you said, and then joins a federation that is entirely on the other side of the planet? How would they move over there? There aren't exactly many federations recruiting, so if one recruits you, you should join regardless of where they are. THE benefit of federations are shared, LOCAL air defense.

3. Why not PVP wars? You're saying a new player should take 5 c3s and then be ready to fight players? You think that prepares them? There are maybe a dozen players with empires capable of fighting player wars on FB. You think noobie 5-c3 is ready to take any one of them on? If so, why haven't we seen it at all? That'd be awesome if what you said did occur, but it simply does not.

I completely agree that I'd like to see more PvP wars. All of my suggestions are built around trying to promote that aspect of the game. You're not really addressing the underlying issues though by changing unit sizes. Changing unit sizes will not incentivize more players to play. Most players don't even understand what these changes mean for a war, regardless of whether or not these changes are good or bad.

Lastly, you do give population and cash to new players, which is great! I do not think that really helps them win wars though. They have no idea how to spend the cash. New players RARELY actually BUY more weapons before they fight. They wouldn't know what to buy anyways. Make their starting weapons stronger relative to what they're fighting. Make it so they'll win much more often on their first attempt. Treat the first war as a tutorial. This is how you can get players to stay in the game longer. If you lose your first war against the computer, there's a decent chance you'll quit the game and look for something else to do.

i think you are missing one important element playing key role in war game... which is army maintenance cost. it prevents any larger pvp for big players and conpletelly bancruipt small Ones when they try to build their first army. reduce it 10 times and i promise you 10 times more pvp between new players.

^^ Agreed, Mndz. There are lots of obstacles preventing players from fighting more, costs being one of the biggest ones.

Andy I would do something like this:

Merge Defence Military Airport & Offence Military Airport and Strategic Airport
Merge Defence Military Base & Offence Military Base and Strategic Base
Merge Defence Anti Aircraft Missile Batteries & Offence Anti Aircraft Missile Batteries
Merge Missile Interceptor Batteries & Navy Missile Interceptor Batteries
Merge Defensive Missile Batteries & Mid Range Missile Batteries & Navy Missile Batteries & Land to Sea Missile Batteries and Tactical Nuclear Batteries and Chemical Batteries
Merge Jeeps, Light Artillery, Light Tanks, and Armored Vehicles & Heavy Jeeps, Heavy Artillery, Heavy Tanks, and Heavy Armored Vehicles into a weapon called Combined Ground Forces.
Merge Interceptors & Navy Interceptors & Fighter Planes & Navy Fighter Planes
Merge Radar Planes & Long Range Radar Planes
Merge Destroyers & Attack Destroyers
Merge Helicopters & Attack Helicopters
Merge Conventional Missile Batteries & Land Based Cruise Missile Batteries and Nuclear Missile Batteries
Merge Cruise Missile Ships & Guided Missile Frigates
Merge Special Forces & Seals & Rapid Deployment Units
Merge Stealth Bombers, Precision Bombers and Strategic Bombers
Merge Attack Submarines and Nuclear Submarines

Thank you, son!

We are not limiting to 5 countries.
if you have 5, you can continue, but why only fight trivial wars against C3s at WL3?
after so many wars, you are not capable of fighting at higher levels?

Keeping the C3 countries as they are now? is it about assets after all?

EO
You don't fight to WL20 even in a week.
we can add another 20 levels in several hours.

as I said, when you have 5, you can drop one and get another one where you want it.

We could extend it.
If you are experienced in many wars against a C3 country, maybe continue with C3 countries at WL5 and extend your empire to 10 countries.

All this simplifies the effort compared to the current situation.
It can be done to allow a very flexible empire with countries spread where you want them, but as we said and was confirmed by players, it is not about assets.
Gold coins can be won, in large numbers, if you go for C3 countries in higher war level.

but such a change will resolve the problem of war levels preventing you, who are in all war levels, from fighting C3 countries in lower war levels.

We do have a problem in explaining war to new players.
Must explain much better.
push them to do the war tutorial is a start.

the changes in units and defense capability will make the defense stronger and reduce the fear of PvP wars.
These changes will make a difference even if many players don't understand what happened.

Mndz

The cost of mainly defensive wars was already reduced.
We have today completed another substantial round of cost reduction for armies, mainly defense.
The reduction is in the cost of weapons and ammo.
It will reduce the maintenance cost of the army.

It will be part of the next upgrade.
We will do this again in the coming weeks.

John,

I will look into it in details.
I do however have a major problem.
The price of a defensive missile was reduced today (in the code), by 15%. It will be in the next upgrade.

the price of offensive missile is not changed.

We will reduce the price of the defensive army further in the coming weeks.
we will probably not reduce the price of offensive weapons.
If we do, the cost will remain higher than the cost of the defensive army.

There is also a major issue with one weapons one ammo type.

I still believe that the main issue is not one of money or what type of units. In my opinion it is the absolutely massive difference in power between players.

On one end you have players that have stored 100's of millions of weapons and countless numbers of ammo for free. They can move these reserves everywhere at any time. The fact that they are inactive on arival does very little to change this advantage.

On the other hand there are players that are restricted by what their country can support.

I'm very very happy that it is going to cost money to keep weapons in CEO's.

If everybody is limited to what their country/countries can support the power difference will shrink by a LOT. The rich will still be stronger but the gap will be many times smaller then what it is now.

As far as buying weapons and their costs. Money is hardly the issue. It is the max number of soldiers needed to maintain the weapons in a country. If you really want to make defensive weapons better lower the amount of soldiers needed for defensive weapons, or raise the number for offensive weapons. That will make much more difference then any price tuning.

Defensive weapons use much smaller numbers of soldiers and officers.
This has been the case for years.

In addition, using professionals (you need some gold coins) removes the problem of numbers of soldiers available.

the changes in the defense will help reduce the differences and make smaller countries better equipped to defend themselves.

Andy, wars are won by offensive weapons so if you like to see more low lvl players pvp you need to also reduce their maintenance as well. army draining money when buying supplies and ammo, these have to be reduced much more or new players should given some higher income to keep the army. 20-30B increase per game month will not change the world for me, but it will change situation for small coutries in general.

When are these changes taking effect with regards to the ceo's and storage? Some pre-warning would help players adjust

Andy you're responding to tons of players at once (which I appreciate), so I'll keep my post brief and point at something you said that I agree with.

You said this:

<!-Quote-!>Quote:

EO
You don't fight to WL20 even in a week.
we can add another 20 levels in several hours.

as I said, when you have 5, you can drop one and get another one where you want it.

We could extend it.
If you are experienced in many wars against a C3 country, maybe continue with C3 countries at WL5 and extend your empire to 10 countries.<!-/Quote-!>

I say yes please extend it. This is very close to what I've been hoping for/pushing for(option to keep fighting c3 countries at a low-mid level IF YOU CHOOSE for no extra reward like gold coins, cash etc.). This is exactly what Gaz's proposal was except instead of level 5 like you said, he said level 3. If you would do it at level 5, that'd work just fine in my opinion.

This is a good discussion.
There are many suggestions and I hope it will continue for a while.

changes like storage at enterprises takes some time and should not be extreme. need to think about it, have a level of free storage etc.

When we know what should be done, there will be an advance notice.

Having military units participate in the defense could be added in two weeks or so.

also making it possible to fight C3 countries at a lower War level will take several weeks.
I don't think this one needs an advanced notice.

I hope for more reactions from players and other ideas might pop up.
We will be happy if the war game could be transformed into a more active feature with more participants.
Having more PvP wars and more land wars could depend on better tuning and balancing of weapons and units.

Lowering the cost is I think quite clear.
Improving profitability for the same reasons started quite some time ago.

I missed that EO, thx .Level 5 with 10 countries, level 8 with 15 and so on, could be extended?

As long as it's based on the amount of countries. So if I had 12 countries and suddenly I had 2 I would be able to fight c'3 at level 3 again, and work back up?

That seems a good solution.

As a returning player that played back in the time there was no GC, I will agree that I'm lost here.

Wars are so much more complicated that back in time and the in-game guide to ''win a war in 10 min'' is not event good anymore. What more, I dont find that guide usefull to learn how to make wars after that.

You need to test stuff, see what works against what. That take time and money. I find myself on FB where I'm at lv 3 war and cannot win against a C3 cause I'm still testing and playing around to understand the new game.

So that mean I cannot expand anymore because :
1. Cannont win (for now) against a C3 level 3
2. Cannot PVP on Inactive players because of the 52 days I need to president (make sense to eliminate abuse, but stil...)

I will say that the 300B every day to new players help, but I need to juggle between testing weapons in war I will not win (really expensive) and developping my economy with that money.

I love the idea of merging the weapons in one group, but I understand the equilibrium you need to keep with the price. Why not then have 2 groups :
1. Purely defensive with the actual price
2. Hybride, that cost more to buy and to maintain

Player would then have the possibility balenace their army depending their budget. High risk high reward, because you could as a country ''eliminate'' your need for pure defense, but if you lose your hybrid army by attacking, you are left defenseless. I think it would make to game really interesting.

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If any english mistake, sorry! English is not my first language and I'm trying really hard to write properly.

If you want defense to be cheaper in a merged weapon set up, just give defending units a blanket advantage in combat over attacking units. Problem solved. The weapons need to be merged. The amount of weapon types currently in the game is ridiculous, and most of them are completely useless.

There also needs to be other possible outcomes for war other than conquest. Conquest should be extremely difficult. Limited wars should be the norm.

I was in the same situation Demerzel with the 52 days rule. It was frustrating just waiting around.

The C3 wars for beginners should work better.
I will look into it.

cost of war will be reduced further in the next upgrade.

Agree with Mndz on lowering defense cost all around having standing army is expensive

Also think maybe speed up the time it takes to build a country , guess quicker population growth so that way loosing acountry wouldn’t sting as much

Maybe try some advertising Facebook YouTube twitter need fresh body’s

Also storing weapon in a ceo should remain free , if that changes I will prob say goodbye to simcountry

When did I miss the announcement that we will start paying expenses for weapons in our enterprise? So the game becomes even more unplayable? I don't expect I would stick around long after that terrible change. Let me know if I should put the weapons in one country so one person gets 500T in weapons or spread them out among the empire so multiple people can grab them up.