New Things

Oh, Crafty... for the record.... I aint fat!!!

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And Yankees' daft statements about about how he doesnt need the grid, doesn't use national parks etc. etc.<!-/Quote-!>

Nothing "daft" about it, once when I was 6 I was told we went to yellow stone. Don't remember it, haven't been to a national park since. I did go to many "Federal Reservations" during my time in the Military but the only reason happened to be it was part of the job, and I did volunteer for that.

I lived for 18 years without being connected to any part of the grid except the internet and telephone.

I don't "need" it, don't even need the internet or telephone, I'd have to do something to make a living other than what I do now or at least go to work for someone else though.

This so called "grid" is a relatively new thing in many parts of the United States. Other than cities few people had access to electricity until after WWII.

The only reason my father wired his parents house for it in 1948 was so they could replace the absorption unit they had which ran off Kerosene for one that used mechanical compression (and I think they got rid of the gasoline washing machine at the same time).

Refrigerators do not have to be designed to use electricity. Hell the one we had in our home in San Diego CA when I was a kid ran off natural gas until we moved back to Missouri in 1969.

You can buy absorption machines for residential use today. They are quite common for commercial use if someone is already producing steam.

The only reason this so called "grid" is important is you have just over two generations that know no other way. Of course it depends on which argument you take for the length of a generation (20-27 years).

They don't have the knowledge to build something for themselves nor the money to pay someone to do it for them.

Additionally Crafty, the "electrical grid" I'm connected to now is not provided by the government. It's a COOP and is owned by the users. Only thing the government does is regulate and tax it, I wish they'd get their noses out of that.

Private companies own my IP provider and telephone service same thing there, government regulates and taxes it.

And I'm not fat either.

Pancakes with syrup and butter, anyone?!

Crafty is spot on.

America believes that "socialism" is bad. How sad. European countries are more left-wing than the United States, and have identical personal freedoms and standards of living, if not higher, than their American counterparts. Same with Australia/NZ.

Those who believe the welfare system is for bludgers are plainly thick. Many countries (Germany, Australia, Norway) have far more extensive welfare systems than the United States and yet have higher productivity and living standards. The belief that the United States is "the greatest country in the world" is pure delusion.

This is why I hate Republicans. This is why I believe America is doomed if Romney gets elected.

Sometimes I wonder what happened to the US Education system...

Yankee, this "grid" Crafty is referring to is the electricity grid... A pretty vital service.

T

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Yankee, this "grid" Crafty is referring to is the electricity grid... A pretty vital service.<!-/Quote-!>

I know what he is referring to.

To industry yes, to individual residential properties, it's not vital at all.

This country would be better off to centralize power plants around industrial centers and converting or simply build housing to produce their own electricity.

Been there, done that and you do not have to give up a single thing other than wondering if your power company can keep the lights on in the winter.

And Tom, you have no idea what my living standard happens to be. Yes, I'd like a 180' ocean going yacht, but other than that, there is nothing I desire that I don't have.

I have two houses (one of which is under contract to be sold) both of which are paid for.

I have land in several spots which I've purchased and has long since been paid for.

I owe nobody a penny that won't be paid whenever the statement comes in.

I have cash in the bank,
I have both cash and gold in the house,
I have money in stocks,
I drive a 2010 Ford Truck (I say drive it's got under 14,000 miles I got it in 2009).
I traded for and picked up a 2013 HD FLHR tuesday.
The wife drives a 2007 Toyota.
The wife rides a 2006 HD XL 883
I have a boat to fish out of, no where near new but, it serves it's purpose.

All my basic desires have been met and I actually need nothing.

Nobody has given me a thing since I graduated High School, left home and joined the U.S. Navy at 17. I've worked for everything I have and when one job played out, I found or made another for myself.

My standard of living is pretty damned good and it doesn't require and social programs to support it.

I could do the same thing in this country even if I started fresh today (well I doubt I've the time left). I see jobs all of which I've done and for the time invested are well worth what they pay that you can't find anyone to fill simply because they require effort, and giving up that unemployment check. The semi ambitious simply work for cash and keep the unemployment checks.

Try to hire a kid to mow your yard, they'd rather play video games and wait for their parents to dole out money.

I still bitch about my own kids when they where young. I bought them both new push lawnmowers and lined them up with 50 people wanting yards mowed. For 25 hours of work each they'd could have split 1500 bucks cash every other week over the summer. Not bad for teenagers but did they want it?, hell no it was too much work.

The problem with this country is the mindset that anyone is owed anything.

Yankee good for you and your life style. It sounds very nice and you are obviously a very independant person.

Trouble is, not everybody, not nearly, could manage like that. People live in apartment blocks, trailers, yep, in cities. I agree wholeheartedly with you and serpent about the welfare state abuse, but in some cases it is needed. There are areas where there is no work, poverty and crime rule, people who physically or mentally cant operate outside a very closed enviroment, and many other arguements the bleeding heart liberals always bring to this debate. Some of that is also very valid.

Also, the 'grid'. You must think on a wider scale Yankee. OK, localise power generation, well that sort of is the case already, but the idea of the grid is one another can back each other up. Your CO-OPs and different utility companies all sell exactly the same type of electricity, from exactly the same place, all they do is buy and sell on their individual terms.

Could people really survive ( and I mean live in our current enviroment, not all converting to log burners and horses) with out say...traffic management, communications, emergency services, water treatment and the list is endless. Of course they could not, which is why I call your statements daft. National parks, common, you suprise me, protection of Americas finest beautiful scenery and fauna, prohibition of land stripping and plundering for profit. Yessir, you DO need them. Its not all about you Yankee, admirable as your situation is, it's about the greater whole.

Why does it matter just where you live? There are always opportunities and I've found the closer you live to population centers the easier it happens to be.

Now if someone who is physically able to work has no imagination or drive, there is nothing anyone can do about that.

And you miss my point, I lived for 18 years off what you call a grid and only because people know me did they have any inclination my home was anything other than what you'd normally expect in any home. I did not burn wood, I could, was set up to do it, but I chose to spend the time I would need to obtain wood doing things which allowed me to pay for L.P. Gas. I burnt wood one winter just to make sure it worked as I intended.

Anyone that doesn't already know how to produce safe drinking water for themselves and if necessary several others is already at risk. It's harder to find water than it is to make it safe to drink.

I've not ridden a horse since 1975 and I only did that because I was drunk.

There are people who are physically able that make bad choices in life which can bury them. I have no problem helping them get going again, but at some point everyone needs to know taking care of themselves is their own responsibility.

Living in a city, apartment complex or even a trailer is no excuse for someone needing a hand out to survive, I've lived in all at one point or another.

Those that are unable physically or mentally to take care of themselves are another issue however those numbers are the very insignificant minority in our welfare system.

Traffic management .. open your eyes notice all those solar collectors around the switch boxes? Could be of course you still connect them to the "grid" in Great Britain.

When it boils down to traffic and any "grid" all that must be monitored in our society today is "time". Without time being in sync throughout the world communications, along with commercial modes of transportation become a risk.

Considering world consumption that takes nothing to run.

National Parks, for the most part most land owners I know manage their property better than the Department of Agriculture. There are some areas that need protection, I agree to prevent commercial use, but Yellow Stone is a prime example of until they rethought what they where doing was almost destroyed by the Parks Service.

I don't need social programs, and anyone that is physically and mentally able that tells you they do need long term support is simply unwilling to take care of themselves.

At some point those that pay for those programs will get sick of it and may decide to go on the government "dole" themselves. Who's going to pay for it then?

I doubt there is a program offered in the U.S. that I couldn't have been on at some point in my life. That's not what built this country in the first place, and if the standard of living drops, "there's ur sign".

Well as my original post said... I do think that SOME social programs are needed and good. My beef is with the extreme amount of abuse that happens. Actually Id be willing to venture out and say that 75% of the social programs are a waste of resources.

As to why the social programs are allowed to be so badly managed? Personally I do think that the government wants to control. And in most cases not for our benefits. But I heard a good point made several months ago, I'll share it with you. The point was that the government uses these social programs to make its citizens dependent. Heres how: When you GIVE somebody something for enough time, they begin to think its no longer a gift, but a right.

For example I own a construction company, lets say I pay my workers a fair wage. They are happy, I am happy! But my business begins to become more profitable, so, I decide to 'share the wealth' and give my employees $100 extra each week. Not that this is owed to them, they still get their regular wage, but this is a $100 bonus each week. This continues each week for six months.

But suddenly my business slows down and profits are not as good and I cant afford the weekly $100 bonus. Of course they still receive their wages, but no longer any bonuses. The employees will now be extremely upset that you "TOOK THEIR MONEY FROM THEM". When it was never their money, It was a bonus. But they now felt they were entitled to it.

So what better way to control than to give, give, give and the suddenly stop giving? Now the citizens will be upset, they will riot when the gifts that they were benefiting from ceases.

I honestly feel that this has happened to the entitlement system in this country. Many individuals have become so dependent on others to provide for them. Because they have been given to for so long.... when it comes time for the gift to stop, they are now pissed off because they now feel its a right, not a gift they have been receiving. Again, not that SOME help is needed, but not even close to the way it is now.

Obviously this is an over simplification of the issue, but the principle is the same. And granted there are many variables that feed into this dependency on others for your own welfare. But then again, I think most of these problems are problems that have been created by mismanagement of opportunity instead of a lack thereof.

And for the record, If you want any other world problems explained then feel free to ask...

and Im not fat!

LOL

my friends sister who works in an ALDIs tells us a story

people who come in get soda (not that soda should be given to people on welfare water is just fine) dump it recycle it (thank God) and then buy beer....its not a problem with our welfare system its a problem with our people... and I agree with a previous statement that our big corporations need to take care of there people better that's why we have such large income dispartitys not because of lack of distribtuon....although the rich need to be taxed more you hear story's of millionaires getting taxed less then there secretary's it makes you shake your head

I think obama is useless but I hate neo conservatives and their contradictions (I consider myself conservative) also we don't need to be electing some random rich guys who don't care about the people to office...plus I heard hes a mormon (ibelievein seperation of church and state ruthlessly) but hey the neon cons always play their religion card why not me

Un-fat Americans? I withdraw that unnecessary slur.

Look, obviously 'wood burning and horses' was a catch all phrase for a lifestyle, a rancher, farmer, someone with land. Dont pick up on single words like that, its pedantic.

I have arguements for most what you say, you think that traffic management is just a question of plugging lights into a power supply, LOL, ok, more solar generation for individual assets, great. What about the main frames? how would you produce the solar panels with out a grid? a generator? LOL.

Everyone making there own water safe? wtf? are you expecting people to mass upon rivers or seas to collect dirty water and de-salinate it or boil it or use chemicals?

All these things and more are great and admirable, I would like to be able to do a lot of it myself, but it's just not real for the size of the population and the civilisation of the 21st century. Thats why cities grow in the first place.

Seperately, I restate my entire agreement with opinions about welfare handouts though I may be a touch more socialist than you guys, not a lot though. And Serp gives a great example from his own experience with working well doing people! let alone life long unemployed.

Alex, you intrigue me there, dumping and recycling soda to buy beer? wtf, how does that work? I have an Aldis not too many miles from me, hahah.

here in new York state you get 5 cents for a can if you recycle it might be more for a big bottle they get it dump it walk over to the place where you recycle the cans put it in get their nickles and buy beer quite inefficient but hey

So are you saying they get given the can/bottle of soda? Or you mean the picking up of discarded cans. I've seen plenty of that in south central LA. Brilliant I think when you see people at bus stops lining up cans for the next bus to crush, and they have a shopping trolley full of them. And still there are cans lying around everywhere!

they get the soda from food stamps or whatever dump out the soda and turn in the cans for money

Dude, that's messed up...

There are Aldis in da UK???? Oh I have to point something out to the UKians....... We have TJMaxx over here. I noted at Blue's over Christmas, y'all have TKMaxx. Now how weird is that?!!! You just had to be different ha ha ha ha :P

So im underweight(5'8"(With boots on(I ALWAYS have boots on))and 109-110 pounds)... I hardly ever eat fast food... Yeah do the brits Idea i wont have to pay that tax :D

Oh Lordy, Lukester, I need to fatten you up!!!! Some good southern, fattening cookin' is what you need!!! :-P

And you guys should tax gas heavier (just for Luke!).

23 MPG in a full size V8 Performance modified xD hurts but not much try again ;P

and thats playing around not driving sensable lol

That is very good milage. But then you Americans have a different gallon measure to us, cant be bothered to figure it out.

And you think 55mph is fast.

And you have no corners or bends in your roads :?

Depends on the part of the country your in. Stick on I90, your in for a boring straight drive. I don't know anybody who drives at 55.


There are welfare cheats, however they biggest cheaters of the welfare system are found on wall st. And no, I'm not occupying wall st, I have to get to work. :P