Formal Request for Government Cost Details (Golden Rainbow)

This request has spawned from the "W3C - Reductions in income and cost" thread and many concerns over time about what makes up government costs, especially when non-explanatory answers are sent in response to questions about government costs.

With areas of government expenditure other than "government costs", we get a basic amount of data in whcih we can make decisions in the game.

We don't see how many people are employed in the government other than those already shown, although, this can be worked out in a laborious way.

How much is the government using in supplies each month?

How much is the salaries costing?

In what shape does the empire penalty take form? Eg. more employed workers, increased use of supplies? or a straight forward cash penalty that vanishes?

How much do we contribute to the Security Council fund? (I believbe that comes in government costs as well).

GMs, you seem to have answered other threads and ignore the one about government costs .... please provide data.

Are empire penalties being reduced in line with base values?

Why do you say government costs should be 20-30% of country income? Is it that it is linked to country income in some way?

By refusing to say that empire penalties are being reduced in line with base values will lead many to conclude that empires are being made worse off.

Please, members of the playing community support these questions. Please stay constructive and do not make requests of compensations. Let's keep the argument clear and precise to get the information so badly needed.

Thank you All.

I agree with david

We need to know how these are calculated
I ran an empire of 6 the same way 2months ago i do now. The only difference is i make Dramatically less because the GM makes these updates that seem to have no backing or sense."As if they make these numbers up out of thin air"

I used to make 500B a month(total)
I ran 80-85B monthly in government costs that was ok(since i also dished out 100B a month in Social Security costs, 100 in Health/Education)

But now that the GM "Magically" says governments use 20-30% of the income, i call bullshit, we need AND have the right to know how are countries spend government costs. Just because i work hard and make more money with a nation i should throw more into government? With the shrinking corp income and increased sizes goods do not get cheaper but more expensive. AKA harder to manage nation buying and more workers/less income means "Increased" weapons which is like shooting a dead horse with a 12guage to make sure its dead

I'm all ok with spending money that benefits my nations but i should see how much my nation spends for what it gets.

-----------For the Game Master Reading this--------

I pay good money to play a nice game, as it stands most players think that

"GM live in a fairy tale land"

because you have become so disconnected with the players. When the the last time there was a posted update that came with praise?, was respected, or even was WANTED?

The numbers don't lie, look @ the life of a player if a players lifespan was 2years, now its 6months something is wrong, its time to change(evolve) but you must do it with the players and help suite them to.

I support and agree with David's questions.

Straight forward, detailed answers to these questions would help ease the angst that seems to be rampant in the game at this time.

Thanks!

I support the release of the Govt. Cost algorithim.

Cheers,
T

(p.s. I am not the Treseaurer)

Just to clarify, the request is for a breakdown of the Government Costs and answers to specific questions relating to components of Government Costs.

If there is a mass member request for this, it will be harder for this issue to be ignored.

A statement by the GMs is currently more noticeable by its absence.

I'd really like to see a breakdown of how Government Costs are calculated. Add my name to the list!

Hugs and respect

Jo

I agree with all here in that we need to see this formula so that we as players can start adjusting what we need to. Andy has said in another thread that corporations are bigger, work forces are bigger and because of this each change implemented or game tweak has a much more damaging effect on our countries and economy.

We see government spending going through the roof with these changes and are powerless to combat it. Please give us this information so that we can adjust our country spending to combat your constant tweaking of the game, which is obviously more damaging now then in the past. This would cut down on the email you get and the questions regarding government spending.

What causes this spending to sky rocket? Why does a country which basically mirrors it's neighbor in stats have twice the government spending? We will be able to see for ourselves and adjust accordingly. Please give us something to help combat your interference.

Regards,
Redman

I'd like to see a break down of all costs pertaining to countries.
Why should an empire with 10 countries pay more for government costs than an empire with 3 countries? Doesn't sound fair does it?
Why do my corporations show "too high" when I'm selling at 120Q and why won't the offer price from my corps decrease as does the going price of products? This should be automatic shouldn't it?
Why are government costs higher for a country with weapons than a country with no weapons?
I did the math with the population of 1 country. Employed,unemployed,housewives,disabled,school children,highschool students,university students,advanced students, soldiers and officers, and 6,000,000 people are un accounted for. Why? Where are they?
I can go on and on, but like everyone else we would like answers for all our questions. We all really get fustrated when the GMs don't reply. Andy has been alot more active answering some questions but not the ones pertaining to our country profits being depleted.
This will only lead to more players leaving the game. The war game has already been crippled, so no one cares to fight like we once did, now you are taking away our profits giving players no reason to continue playing this game.

/hums Jeopardy tune quietly in the background....

i asked ages ago

My government costs have been declining for 18 game months.

Har har I'm magic I am.

mine for about real month

The GMs stay silent, so lets keep up the pressure.

Government costs are for many the largest by far in running a country yet we have no information about them.

The information is available because it has to be computed to work out our costs but yet we're not allowed to know.

Transparency is always the way forwards.

The GMs have been replying to other threads but not this one.

Is it an unreasonable request?

No David... It is a...

***CONSPIRACY!!!***

My God David, you do harp on, don't you?

Keep up the pressure?! "Transparency is always the way forwards."?! I have to ask- you do realize this is a game, don't you? The reason the GM's don't reply to your questions is probably because they're rolling around on the floor laughing at how incredulous you are.

You're the main reason I don't waste my time with this forum- I login and it's like being at a local Labour Party rally(and not a very good one at that.)

Lol, Wendy, you always makeme laugh.

As for SadHappySucker, well ......

This is a game and I voiced my opinion to keep it purely as a game many years ago before real money could be made.

Now that it is a real money game, there are real questions to be asked when something effects your real money balance.

I wouldn't let my bank allocate charges based on their whim. I wouldn't let my shop change the price of the milk before I got to the counter. I don't expect to not know what I pay for.

You say: "You're the main reason I don't waste my time with this forum- I login and it's like being at a local Labour Party rally(and not a very good one at that.)"

I do not often raise issues this publicly but it is so critical now and has been ignored completely with meaningless answers over the years.

Sucker, all that takes place in these forums is part of the game. I also doubt the GMs are rolling on the floor laughing as I doubt they want to answer the questions for reasons they keep to themselves.

If real money had not entered the game, it would not matter but as I pay almost US$10 a day in government costs, I'd like to know what it's for.

As for politics, I believe in the bottom up approach and not that of Labour.

david said it best.....all that takes place in these forums is part of the game....and really really there is no CONSPIRACY in simcountry if any gamemaster doesn't want to respond with an answer you want reguarding whatever question you pose thats how it is!(play the game), as for government costs we believe in the bottom up approach nothing else matters

I don't agree with everything David says on these forums. We have certainly been on opposite ends in discussions on here before.

David has his own agenda in this (real $), but that shouldn't take away from the fact that it would benefit the game community as a whole if we could know how government costs are computed.

As Warrior says, we may not get an answer; but there's nothing wrong with trying! And I don't think it was very constructive to attack David for being an advocate (sucker).

yeah Chiwoo, the whole conspiracy bit was a joke, but your defensive posture only fuels the fires of this type of curiosity.

"Now that it is a real money game, there are real questions to be asked when something effects your real money balance."

I'm sure I read somewhere that you make a whopping $600 per year from this game.

I will personally pay you that amount to not take this game so seriously. If you're an adult and consider £31.50 per month as "real money" then you clearly need to spend less time playing this GAME and more time working a paid job.

Enough bulls**t bickering, and more focusing on the topic.

All we want to know is the algorithm / how the costs are worked out, we won't stop until this information is released.

End of, good day.

Yes SadHappy, I feel you are out of line by leaps and bounds. Not everyone has to subscribe to your narrow point of view. Criticizing David's success in the game is very bad for the game. You frown because he makes any amount of gain, while you do not.

If he makes a little cash for his non-profit cause why do you care anyway? Your animosity seems to be rooted in the fact that he is successful. I'll remind you David has been a part of some of the most important parts in the game that hold it together. True it is just a game, but you limit yourself to the game side of it and that is your choice. Your comments reflect the fact that you take the game and his money making too serious. Not the other way around.

Sunny- I understand that. Why don't we make a formal request for some cheat codes, too?!

Inanna- At what point did I criticize anyone's success? I didn't. Nor do I understand how it's bad for the game. One could counter that certain people make this game inaccessible because they take it so seriously it loses the element of fun.

Again, I've not criticized anyone's success- I don't even know the success of David's that you speak of. If--as you seem to be doing--you value success by real life profit then I would suggest it is you that has a narrow point of view.

I make no criticism of anyone trying to make a little cash for a non-profit cause, but seriously- if you wanted to help and make a difference, would you really do so by playing SimCountry?

Me pointing out that he takes the game too seriously means that I'm taking the game too seriously is a bit much of an oxymoron for me.

Some things aren't meant to be understood and this game certainly wouldn't be any fun if everybody knew exactly what I's to dot and T's to cross.

SadHappySucker, if you don't care about the gov. cost computation, then why are you here commenting on this thread??

It seems that we are under attack by your comments, simply for asking a question.

You have a right to voice your opinion....but so do we.

Wendy makes some excellent points (what is the REAL reason you have such an issue with David??), and Sunny says it best:

Let's STOP this 'bickering' and get back to the point of this thread! GOVERNMENT COST.