GREF shows it true color. (Golden Rainbow)

About the aqua getting owned, who started that war? Basicly, the root cause seems to be the first war. I'm starting to understand the situation.

Aqua did, both times.... but somehow this is all John's doing.

Whoever is right or wrong I don't care anymore. These guys are still hangin around in my area. What fool waits for a roof to come down crashing on them. Feel the burn......


Uncle Dirt.... I'm dissapointed, even you?

This will always be about "he said, she said". Each of the combatants has their own POV. No one who wasn't there can ever really know what happened, and those who were there will only have their own perspective.

Both sides have their justifications. You can choose to believe one side or the other on the basis of who you know, who you trust and who you hate. Or you can stay out of it. Or you can decide to fight on one side or the other, just for the hell of it.

This is a game! ... choose the path of maximum enjoyment

Hugs and respect

Jo

Hi Jo.
Well said

That is what I am trying to do but I can see why people would be so defensive, I mean because they put real life money into their countrys and alot of effeort.

This game pays for itself Yahutchtka....

I have paid nothing more than Membership fees which are a very low compared to other online games. Minimal for all this entertainment. I have some of the original nations that have survived my earliest days of getting my butt whipped. I have some of the same nations that have been leveled through nuclear bombs. This game is unrivaled anywhere.

This is the part that makes people stay. When they get jumped on and get their countries taken, they often cannot withstand the urge to come back and get revenge. It is fun to be peaceful. And more fun to war. I remember when I was afraid to jump that hurdle. My empire has drowned in debt, and risen top profitable heights. Anyone who has financed an empire on anything other than level awards and common sense that leads to profitablility, is in my opinion, not the smartest person in the world. Whatever is gained here is easy to lose. Whatever you lose can easily be recovered. The only plus is learning the lessons along the way that heighten your game.

My path.... Maximum PAIN.... LoLs have fun.

You can look at the NLUO thread just a few clicks below to see just how people are driven to return at all costs.....

A History Lesson
The story goes back to the beginning of GREF. GREF once a small Fed filled with young SC noobs completely unfamiliar with war banned together to exchange ideas on how to maximize profitability in their countries and CEO's. Our then chairman Quaxocal, Q, was some kind of number crunching genius and made level 7 in 3 RL months (back when Level 7 was the pinnacle), unfortunately he was somewhat arrogant and didn't know when to exclude his opinion from forum debates. Long and short...he was constantly being harassed by people from the UC like Innana herself. GREF used our good nature and PR to keep the peace. Q eventually dropped the ball and came out of War Protection and was completely destroyed by the UC. We got over it and wiped the slate clean...as there beef was with Q and not us.

Along comes a man by the name of John Fire...a UC vet that returned to the game that really liked to war. GREF had become considerably larger by then, but still very peaceful in nature. We had trained many SC noobs on the art of Econ, empires had grown, new noobs were learning from the old, and all had a good time sharing knowledge along the way. Rumors started coming in that John Fire was convincing UC members that GREF was a growing threat and that we needed to be eliminated before we got any bigger. Rumor became fact as we traced the sources back to the originators within the UC. At this point I became Chairman of GREF. Specifically the plan was for the UC to convince GREF that it was in our interest to sign a Non Aggression Pact(NAP) with the UC. We were 1 of 3 large feds on GR (AF and the UC being the others). The AF and the UC had a long standing history of warring each other. After we signed the deal...the UC would then attach the AF (unbeknownst to us) and we would be forced to stand by and watch. The war would then turn on us after the AF had been defeated...or at least this was their plan. We also had close relations with the AF and almost merged with them at one point...we peacefully declined and thought it was best to maintain the 3 party system as a counter balance of power between the 2 war feds. GREF has always flown the banner for peace and if we had wanted war we would have sided with 1 fed or the other long ago...each side has always attempted to either influence or coerce us into joining them against the other.

Through my chats with Nute Gunray, the then great leader of the UC and a real stand up guy...we came to an arrangement that avoided us needing to sign the NAP and avoid being attacked by the UC for not signing the NAP. This movement ultimately kept the peace on GR for a long time. But John Fire also got disenfranchised by the game changes and quit which helped ease the tensions.

The recent events that lead up to this war were as I mentioned above: John's traitorous ways, his aggressive stance on nukes in LM, and specifically his handling of the Agency / AF-UC War. And then to top it off...Dizzy / Crossdale the self proclaimed real leader and god of the UC has been proactively and rather arrogantly recruiting war vets to come to GR in order to destroy GREF. I can't get into specifics but, it has been verified by at least 3 sources I trust completely. This history lesson will be followed up by an official statement from GREF in the next week detailing our Jus ad Bellum (Justice to War).

BTW...John my name isn't Alex...lol...please call me Zeba or use a mirror.

Zeba
Peoples Republic of abeZart
GREF Chancellor
Founding Council Member

Abe,

"John's traitorous ways". OH! I see you object to the means I used to get rid of the most vulgar chairman Allief Forces or the Simcountry forum has ever had. Object all you want,if another player using the same language ever logs on in the forum or shows up in a federation I happen to be a member I will do it all over again.

"his aggressive stance on nukes in LM". I admit having a idealistic, humanitarian approach to the use of Nukes. As evident in the recent conflict I believe in using all means available when the survival of your country is at stake. Please hope real world leaders would be more hesitant.

"and specifically his handling of the Agency / AF-UC War" There never was an Agency/AF-UC War.
Several renegades from UC formed The Agency and declared and attacked an member who has some countries in and some out of AF. With the resources available to me and objections from some UC members I attempted to convince members of the Agency to cease warring activities. By the way are not both group of warriors from AF and the Agency now co-habitating in your federation?

Try to justify Aqua Rainbows aggressive behavior all you want.

I have a different take on events. You have seen the old warriors in UC retire and realized this was a great opportunity to get rid of the remaining competition. I have news for you EBA, (here is a mirror). John L is not retiring and John L is not leaving the game and John L is staying right here as Chairman as long as the members of UC want him. Put that in your pipe and smoke it MR Zeba or whatever you chose to call yourself.

John L (Nhoj)
Chairman United Confederation

"he(Quaxocal) was constantly being harassed by people from the UC like Innana herself"

You are out of order Ms. Zeba. I had long been evicted and left the UC when I had issue with Q. Sadly this happened twice, and at no time during my Membership in the United Confederation, have I declared on another player. The only case would have been Ameche, but he lived in his tank for the remainder of his days on SC until he peacefully left the game.

Zeba, you wouldn't happen to be Q would you..? You keep tying completely unrelated events to his name.

Abe,

I forgot. Apparently you have all these issues with me but never came to me to see if we could resolve any. When Aqua declared on me I came to you to see what it was all about. You behaved as if you had no idea what was going on and you had to check with Aqua. Then you came back and said It looks like war.

GREF has prospered as an economic federation to the point that it is indeed the largest federation complex on GR. Now that I brought the change that has occured to GREF under your recent leadership out in the open here in the forum, members of your federation are saying I am whining. I know, you know that with an open press and people willing to report on your federations bad conduct. Your federations phenomenal growth is endangered.

Remember Zeba, All great powers throughout history have collapsed and crumbled through internal decay and corruption. GREF is showing the first signs of collapse.

John L

Abe,

Your statement from Nov 18
"admit ably some of us are Economists, learning the art of War, and were caught off guard by Aqua's early War Decs"

And now you are trying to justify the current war. Pathetic Abe.

John L

Plotting our destruction was the last straw I am afraid...and John...you are taking the brunt of this action, but perhaps you should be more careful with who you align yourself with, who you cross, and who you disrespect.

I told Dizzy / Crossdale the day it happened on MSN, Aqua deccing on you:

Honestly...we had plans to attack John L, and Aqua's early dec has blown those plans, but we are entering this war. Ask him...didn't tell you?

Again we stand by our reasons as I stated.

Oh yea...and it is not just me that takes issue with you and your cohorts...GREF is a democracy...the Council and Officers came to this conclusion after much heated debate for RL weeks...we do not enter into such decisions lightly. I am just a spokesman.

11/14/2009 10:36:05 AM Dre abe abe
11/14/2009 10:36:20 AM abe Dre yes
11/14/2009 10:36:26 AM abe Dre I see what has happened
11/14/2009 10:36:29 AM abe Dre and I am pissed
11/14/2009 10:36:52 AM abe Dre brb
11/14/2009 10:36:52 AM Dre abe so should i be loading my firearm or putting it down, tis is the question
11/14/2009 10:37:04 AM abe Dre hang on a sec
11/14/2009 10:37:10 AM abe Dre just logged on
11/14/2009 10:37:17 AM Dre abe ok
11/14/2009 11:06:53 AM abe Dre bad news
11/14/2009 11:07:02 AM Dre abe sure
11/14/2009 11:07:24 AM abe Dre I'll be honest with you
11/14/2009 11:07:38 AM abe Dre we don't like john l
11/14/2009 11:07:52 AM abe Dre we planned on attacking him awhile back ago
11/14/2009 11:07:54 AM abe Dre and backed off
11/14/2009 11:08:06 AM abe Dre aqua is bent outa shape about it
11/14/2009 11:08:15 AM abe Dre and I am very pissed about it
11/14/2009 11:08:35 AM abe Dre but that doesn't mean that we weren't going to attack john l at some point
11/14/2009 11:08:39 AM abe Dre so there you go
11/14/2009 11:08:45 AM abe Dre honesty
11/14/2009 11:10:41 AM abe Dre well I suppose you are busy
11/14/2009 11:10:43 AM abe Dre so
11/14/2009 11:10:47 AM abe Dre not much else to say
11/14/2009 11:10:57 AM abe Dre sorry to break it to ya like this
11/14/2009 11:19:46 AM Dre abe ahh ok
11/14/2009 11:19:55 AM Dre abe sorry about that was eating
11/14/2009 11:19:55 AM abe Dre back
11/14/2009 11:20:00 AM abe Dre ok
11/14/2009 11:20:08 AM abe Dre don't balme you
11/14/2009 11:20:12 AM abe Dre man has gotta eat
11/14/2009 11:20:30 AM abe Dre more coffee for me
11/14/2009 11:20:50 AM abe Dre fazy land has decced
11/14/2009 11:20:59 AM Dre abe well
11/14/2009 11:21:06 AM Dre abe i guess you will see diz at his best
11/14/2009 11:21:31 AM Dre abe its like this
11/14/2009 11:21:37 AM Dre abe you guys fire one shot on john l
11/14/2009 11:21:42 AM Dre abe its war in game forever
11/14/2009 11:21:44 AM Dre abe not at you
11/14/2009 11:21:46 AM Dre abe in general
11/14/2009 11:21:55 AM Dre abe noone decs like that
11/14/2009 11:21:59 AM Dre abe atleast go to war proper
11/14/2009 11:22:28 AM abe Dre how so
11/14/2009 11:22:32 AM abe Dre whats proper
11/14/2009 11:22:36 AM Dre abe well its either just Aqua
11/14/2009 11:22:41 AM Dre abe or is it GREF
11/14/2009 11:22:42 AM abe Dre dude this has caught us all off guard
11/14/2009 11:22:51 AM Dre abe i can tell you right now
11/14/2009 11:22:55 AM abe Dre told you we had this in the works
11/14/2009 11:23:00 AM Dre abe aqua wont last long
11/14/2009 11:23:03 AM abe Dre we are all equally uppreppared
11/14/2009 11:23:11 AM Dre abe however if it is GREF involved than i gotta do what i gotta do


***I'm not sure if many will be able to read this proper but I only copy and pasted the convo of what Abe said in the convo. If there is any difficulty reading this please let me know and I will gladly clear things up for you.****

Abe,
You dont have to like me but you sure as hell will have to live with me as long as you chose to play this game. Because I am not going anywhere.

Last Words I have for you.

John L

How pitiful can members of The Rat Pack get? Now I see Mr Dirtrocker has a country named "Fecal Cranium Traitor Below".

Can you guys mature some? I understand there is no age requirement to play but how pathetic can you guys get.

John L

I got it just fine Diz(took me a few reads),... and I don't appreciate Abe trying to make it look like Diz is selling us out. I am sure alot of UC isn't participating at this point because these were surprise decs. Diz has my full confidence. There has never been a stronger minded Leader in the UC. Of course there is one Chair, but Diz is one of if not 'the' grandfather of UC. So cut the crap talk out ZeneB. I also don't understand the naming of a country 'Bitchslap'. You guys lose repect and credibitlity the more you talk. As for me and respect, I have none, from you or myself. I dont't respect anyone or anything here. I don't value it the same as you do. I could give two craps what any of you thinks about what i do here. Uncle Dirt, you just crossed a line. However, I'm gonna assume you are referencing the type of 'slap' and not the type of 'person' you'll be slapping. I do have funny country names, they are menat as jokes, not insults. I think you know that is a little over the top. This is not ban spam or a moral call for justice so everyone please less comments on Dirt. He's a cool guy that I had a ton of respect and compassion for. He can make his own decision. But Uncle, do you really wanna go there with me?

On a final note, given the fact that your federation members have disrespected me as a mother, and now as a Woman, I'm gonna break the rest of my nuclear foot off, IN YOUR ECONOMIC ARSES' I was once thoughtful of kewl peeps in your federation, but you all get it now. . . . without remorse. Now GM,s hopefully you guys have had a chance to check out whats been happening with my countries, so I can continue destroying the @#$holes!!!!! Leave or Die, big or small. I have never been stingy, you all can get it. And none of you are invincible.... And yes I have all year.... And yes, like your reasons for war, it's because I don't like your candy a$$e$

<!-Quote-!>Quote:

On a final note, given the fact that your federation members have disrespected me as a mother, and now as a Woman...<!-/Quote-!>

Need I remind you, Wendy, that you have done this to others. So cut out the righteous indignation. It does not suit you.

Many people have called you many things. Don't make a hypocrite out of yourself too.

Yes I have, I never said that, but my past actions, which I have very much strayed from in the 'now' we occupy; do not excuse retarded actions now.

Need I remind you, "The hardest thing about business is minding your own." Now you can kindly mind it if you can.

I could say, dumb ish like "Can you hear me now Klarina?" or to others, nvm I'll stop there.

There is no righteous anything to be claimed so STFU.

It is very much my business if my allies are making such comments about you and your children. And, having experienced it myself in the past, I do wish to apologise for their behaviour.

I find it reprehensible that they should treat you in such a way, and for that I am truly sorry.

That being said, I long ago forgave you for the things you said; because I realised that you said it simply to get a rise out of me. And, playing the fool, I gave it to you. I should most likely "mind my own business" as you suggest. But before I do, I will offer you a suggestion in return; do not rise to it. The angrier you get the more they will use it against you.

Trust me on that.

Just when I thought we could get along. It doesn't make me angry. It just curbs the compassion and mercy that overcomes me when I see weakened prey. If they have no fight I have no motivation to kill them. It would be a tragedy for that instinct to change in me. If you had posted what you just said before your first comment, I may have accepted your comment. But it's back to square one. You can all kiss it. We're done being cordial here.

I said it once before, you'll be hard pressed to get me to stop once the tide turns. Good luck to your entire fed. I'm sure you know it is going to take all of you. I'll give you a well deserved workout.

I'm not trying to change anything, Wendy. Just offering some advice.

Why thank you. Klarina. And sincerest apologies for my past comments. That isn't who I am or want to be. I'm done offending people ona personal level here. I was ticked off becuase a certain somebody threw decency out the window. He is gone now. It is a new era. It doesn't mean I won't trash an empire, or attempt to trash an entire fed. This is where we are now. The wrong can of worms...

There's been an amazing change in you since when you first began playing; there's no denying that. You have managed to earn my grudging respect over these past months. And I would have been deeply saddened to have seen others reduce you to levels that are well below you. We both know you're better than that.

This sort of thing should not be tolerated by anybody.