STOP KILLING THE CHILDREN (Kebir Blue)

According to journalists and medical workers it was the Israeli Army that stopped them from leaving Egypt to get into Gaza during the last 4 weeks.

You wrote: 'It is literally impossible for Israel to blockade Gaza without invading Egypt. Last I heard that hasn't happened in 40 years.'

This next bit was written in 1994:

'The Israel Army reopened on Thursday the southern Gaza Strip's passage with Egypt for Palestinian travellers, after a closure that lasted for four consecutive days.

Palestinian sources said that the Israeli army reopened the Rafah terminal for Palestinians, but all Palestinians aged below 35 were not allowed access into the terminal. Meanwhile, the Israel Army closed on Thursday the Abu Holi military roadblock in central Gaza Strip, separating the northern and southern parts of the strip.

The sources said that the Israeli army is detaining hundreds of Palestinians between the two sides of the roadblock while thousands are stranded on the sides of the roadblock, waiting to be allowed access to their workplaces.

In the meantime, the Israeli army still holds a tight grip on the entrances and exists of northern Strip's town of Beit Hanoun, while Israeli military bulldozers still raze and demolish Palestinians' lands and properties.'

Anyways Arch. The Israeli Borders you refer to are illegal borders. Thats why the world can have a say.

To me, it seems that it's you spouting propaganda.

ffs this debate is uncivilized. I side with the leftists on this debate. Given Israels' military, economic and foreign policy advantage. Couldn't they have just assigned intelligence agency to eliminate the threat of Hamas rockets? Or even call in American intelligence to eliminate the threat if they weren't capable, after all in recent history mainstream American politicians have pandered to "Zionist" values (I'm neural on this topic).

With all considered information Israels response is very disproportionate to Gaza, (given the conservative rightist reasoning though thats not a factor (reasoning for Iraq to combat "9/11" terrorism))

Also this conflict has greatly decreased my faith in Israels "right" to exist, given the multiple attacks on UN and red cross agencies. These aren't isolated accounts, it's happened many times.

Angus I'm curious who and when made the quote(I'm assuming it is) at the end of your message.

here is the text I'm referring to

(reasoning for Iraq to combat "9/11" terrorism)

Im also curious why you think the United States of America, and the "Coalition of the Willing" invaded Iraq.

Yooper

Thats funny Mat. "Coalition of the willing"
When given the choise "You are either with us or against us" Is'nt what I would call willing
Thats funny man.
Do me a favour though. Start up another thread 'Why did we invade Iraq?'. It's just that I would like this thread to stay on the discusion of the excess force that Israel used. And I know talking about Iraq will open up a can of worms which will take a while to sort out.
Thanks

Peace&Hardcore.................Nix001
MNA

Honestly I admit I don't have a quote to back up my claim mat (I could find some if you really wanted). The connotations of connecting Saddam with Islamic radicalism, or terrorism is still clear in my head, I'm not blaming governments for this media rhetoric but it is highly suggestible in my opinion, given the comparison of footage (have you ever seen what us "good guys" are shooting at in Iraq or Afghanistan let alone the damage we are doing collaterally or even worse humanly), yet compare the images of the current Gaza conflict, or Vietnam war. I might note the time in 02-04 where reference are made that bin laden has been eliminated (by different sources), yet some time later he releases videos heavily criticizing us good guys. Rightist American and Australian political parties (uninformed on other countries) have capitalized on this fear weather or not it is well founded to gain political power, to further their policy that is not related to their pro fascist (non liberal (freedom) social) policy.

this is from archangel1's most recent post, and i find it insane and very objectionable:

" will point out, again, that Israel cannot blockade Gaza when 8 miles of southwestern Gaza borders Egypt. Again, why should there be any expectation whatsoever that Israel allow anything at all to cross its borders. Why do you think it fair or just or even right that every other country in the world can decide when, what, and who crosses, or does not cross, its borders, Israel should not have that choice?

Are you stupid? Did you get dropped on your head as a child? It is literally impossible for Israel to blockade Gaza without invading Egypt. Last I heard that hasn't happened in 40 years. There is a HUGE difference between blockading and closing your borders. Again, is there something special about Israel that means the rest of the world can tell it, unlike any other country in the world, it cannot control its own borders?

It is only my opinion, but the reason people like Almohad use the term 'blockade' despite it being incorrect do so because of it pejorative value. It simply sounds bad. You go with that propaganda there Almohad. I will continue to point out your deceit."

ok sir and just what % of the borders of gaza are egyptian, and what % israeli? thats question 1 to expose your lies.

next you said israel has the right to control what crosses its borders. what about a country which controls almost all of the borders of a smaller and poorer and weaker country, and the stronger/bigger country imposes a total blockade? do you really think thats OK??? or is it only OK when its done against muslims sir?

Thank You for the Responses Nix& Angus. I am only going to ask one more question here? Are you being honest with yourself when you say that:

"Rightist American and Australian political parties (uninformed on other countries) have capitalized on this fear weather or not it is well founded to gain political power, to further their policy that is not related to their pro fascist (non liberal (freedom) social) policy."

Another way of paraphrasing the question is this what you honestly believe the source of all this violence and death, is because Right leaning politicians in the US desire political power and a "Fascist social policy in their country"?

Alexander, you are a fool. I have not lied. Not once. You ask about percentage of borders, what does that have to do with anything? Since the percentage is NOT 100%, as I have pointed out, what does it matter? Israel has not and can not impose a 100% blockade. Pretty much makes any of the deliberately misleading and inflamatory questions you try to ask meaningless, doesn't it.

The point is there is an 8 mile long stretch of Gaza that borders Egypt. This makes it impossible for Israel to blockade Gaza. That means that the single biggest supposed grievance Hamas has with Israel for firing rockets is a lie. One that Nix, Alomahad, and now you are willing to perpetrate. In Nixs case I believe he perpetrates this lie because of his political views. In your case, I think it is ignorance. In Alomahads case I think it is because he simply doesn't care about the truth and will use any technique he feels will aid him in supporting those who simply wish to kill jews.

And Nix, before you start with your lies again, that little quote you put up about Israel opening the passage to Egypt after closing it for 4 days occurred during the recent fighting. Israel entered Gaza and closed that passage from INSIDE Gaza. Until Israeli forces moved in a couple of weeks ago, that passage was controlled by the Egyptians on the Egyptian side of that border and by the Gazans on the Gazan side of the border. Maybe Hamas should be firing rockets into Egypt.

Arch. Calm down, calm down. Init mate
No Bro. It was 4 years ago. So you admit it ;) Israel CAN close the Egyptian/Gaza border at will.
I wonder if there is a no-mans land on the Egypt/Gaza border as there is around the Israel/Gaza border?.

I'll be back.

archangel1, it *is* relevant how much of the border another country controls. especially when the government of egypt is a corrupt dictatorship paid billions per year by the USA. you do know that right? could that possibly explain why egypt is assisting in israel's blockade of gaza? i think so. the point is that when one small nation is almost totally within the territory of another much bigger, wealthier, and militarily more powerful nation, *clearly* the small nation can easily get blockaded, even if there is like 5% of a border with some other country....

anyway, i am not saying the blockade morally justifies firing random rockets all over the place. but it is an important part of understanding the conflict, and figuring out how to try to resolve it.

Let's hope Pres Obama has the stomach for it.

Thanks Arch - your description of my motives suggests to me that you really have no response to my arguments and have to dredge up that old anti-Semitic bullshit, like so many other failed apologists for Israeli terror.

Glad to see I had an impact!

Okay, so Israel can't blockade the Egyptian border with Gaza. And therefore, according to your logic, supplies must have been flowing through that border uninterrupted, making up for any shortages caused by the Israeli blockade??? You seem to be the only person in the entire world who has noticed this phenomenon.

Of course Egypt has been blockading that border. And of course the Gazans have been building tunnels to break that blockade as much as possible. How you manage to twist this into an argument that the Gazans have no beef with Israel is beyond me.

"
Of course Egypt has been blockading that border"

Why has Egypt been blockading that border? You make it sound like Egypt has no reason not to blockade it, but on the other hand castrate Israel for blockading Gaza

Go on then Karff. Tell us why Egypt blockaded the Gaza border.

nix, I was quoting almohad who said
"Of course Egypt has been blockading that border"

I don't know why Egypt has been blockading the border, but Almohad seems to think they have a better reason than Israel

Karff, Egypt shares a much smaller % of gaza's border than Israel does. Therefore it is right to blame Israel much more than Egypt for the blockade of gaza. Are you aware of the extreme devastation in both economic and humanitarian terms this blockade has wrought on gazans for over an entire year now?

Blockading 95% of a border doesn't reduce supply flow by 95%.

I am very aware of the immense damage the Egyptian blockade has done to Gaza, and I hope the Egyptians pay full restitution as soon as possible

I think there is a reason the united nations, european union, all scholars, blame israel for the blockade and not egypt. its because egypt is only following israel's lead.

egypt is a corrupt dictatorship - the main source of political opposition within egypt to the reign of hosni mubarak is the group "muslim brotherhood"; hamas is a split off from the muslim brotherhood.

starting to add up?

Due to Zionist Jews intercepting the latest aid convoy to Gaza, killing 19 peace activists and aid personnel. At the same time, the USA confirming to Israel that it will not have to conform to the Middle East Nuclear Proliferation Treaty, I thought I would bring this up again.

Is it not time for us all to Boycott Israeli produce and to take an anti-Zionist Israeli stance?

Nix, you are such an ignorant racist it is pathetic.

I don't like to mix politics with my gaming but wasn't there a 60 minutes program on tunnels between Egypt and Gaza? (60 minutes is a CBS TV show which airs on Sunday evenings)

And there were interviews with several business owners in southern gaza that profit from these tunnels.

The program aired some time ago.

LMFAO

Nix is pro hamas, pro al-queda, pro boycott breaking 'peace activists' who smash other people over the head with iron bars and chairs.
Sounds just like Nix's way of doing things, terrorise others to get your own way.

+1 crafty

Helloa Meastro2000. With respect, how else do you propose the Gazans get basic supplies? I would be interested to know what you would have done in France during WW11. Would you have joined the resistance or just rolled over?

King Xenu. And the Zionists are what?

Lt Cock. I am Pro equal rights and Pro resistance to an occupying force. Again Lt Cock. I bet you would be one of those who would have bowed down to the Nazis if they had landed on our shores.
'terrorise others to get your own way' Do you even know what you saying there? If you did some research on the situation, you would see just how stupid that comment was.
Tell me Lt Cock. What rights did the Zionist Army have to board a ship in international waters?

Simple Ummagumma. -11