My main man Jesus (Kebir Blue)

The Problem of Evil
How Can A Good God Allow Evil?


The Problem of Evil - Introduction
John Stott has said that "the fact of suffering undoubtedly constitutes the single greatest challenge to the Christian faith." It is unquestionably true that there is no greater obstacle to faith than that of the reality of evil and suffering in the world. Indeed, even for the believing Christian, there is no greater test of faith than this--that the God who loves him permits him to suffer, at times in excruciating ways. And the disillusionment is intensified in our day when unrealistic expectations of health and prosperity are fed by the teachings of a multitude of Christian teachers. Why does a good God allow his creatures, and even his children to suffer?

First, it's important to distinguish between two kinds of evil: moral evil and natural evil. Moral evil results from the actions of free creatures. Murder, rape and theft are examples. Natural evil results from natural processes such as earthquakes and floods. Of course, sometimes the two are intermingled, such as when flooding results in loss of human life due to poor planning or shoddy construction of buildings.

It's also important to identify two aspects of the problem of evil and suffering. First, there is the philosophical or apologetic aspect. This is the problem of evil approached from the standpoint of the skeptic who challenges the possibility or probability that a God exists who would allow such suffering. In meeting this apologetic challenge we must utilize the tools of reason and evidence in "giving a reason for the hope within us." (I Pet. 3:15)

Second is the religious or emotional aspect of the problem of evil. This is the problem of evil approached from the standpoint of the believer whose faith in God is severely tested by trial. How can we love and worship God when He allows us to suffer in these ways? In meeting the religious/emotional challenge we must appeal to the truth revealed by God in Scripture. We will address both aspects of the problem of evil in this essay.

It's also helpful to distinguish between two types of the philosophical or apologetic aspect of the problem of evil. The first is the logical challenge to belief in God. This challenge says it is irrational and hence impossible to believe in the existence of a good and powerful God on the basis of the existence of evil in the world. The logical challenge is usually posed in the form of a statement such as this:

1. A good God would destroy evil.
2. An all powerful God could destroy evil.
3. Evil is not destroyed.
4. Therefore, there cannot possibly be such a good and powerful God.

It is logically impossible to believe that both evil, and a good and powerful God exist in the same reality, for such a God certainly could and would destroy evil.

On the other hand, the evidential challenge contends that while it may be rationally possible to believe such a God exists, it is highly improbable or unlikely that He does. We have evidence of so much evil that is seemingly pointless and of such horrendous intensity. For what valid reason would a good and powerful God allow the amount and kinds of evil which we see around us?

These issues are of an extremely important nature--not only as we seek to defend our belief in God, but also as we live out our Christian lives.

The Logical Problem of Evil
We have noted that there are two aspects of the problem of evil: the philosophical or apologetic, and the religious or emotional aspect. We also noted that within the philosophical aspect there are two types of challenges to faith in God: the logical and the evidential.

David Hume, the eighteenth century philosopher, stated the logical problem of evil when he inquired about God, "Is He willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then He is impotent. Is He able, but not willing? Then He is malevolent. Is He both able and willing? Whence then is evil?" (Craig, 80). When the skeptic challenges belief in God on the basis of the logical problem of evil, he is suggesting that it is irrational or logically impossible to believe in the existence of both a good and all powerful God and in the reality of evil and suffering. Such a God would not possibly allow evil to exist.

The key to the resolution of this apparent conflict is to recognize that when we say God is all powerful, we do not imply that He is capable of doing anything imaginable. True, Scripture states that "with God all things are possible" (Mt. 19:26). But Scripture also states that there are some things God cannot do. For instance, God cannot lie (Tit. 1:2). Neither can He be tempted to sin, nor can He tempt others to sin (James 1:13). In other words, He cannot do anything that is "out of character" for a righteous God. Neither can He do anything that is out of character for a rational being in a rational world. Certainly even God cannot "undo the past," or create a square triangle, or make what is false true. He cannot do what is irrational or absurd.

And it is on this basis that we conclude that God could not eliminate evil without at the same time rendering it impossible to accomplish other goals which are important to Him. Certainly, for God to create beings in his own image, who are capable of sustaining a personal relationship with Him, they must be beings who are capable of freely loving Him and following his will without coercion. Love or obedience on any other basis would not be love or obedience at all, but mere compliance. But creatures who are free to love God must also be free to hate or ignore Him. Creatures who are free to follow His will must also be free to reject it. And when people act in ways outside the will of God, great evil and suffering is the ultimate result. This line of thinking is known as the "free will defense" concerning the problem of evil.

But what about natural evil--evil resulting from natural processes such as earthquakes, floods and diseases? Here it is important first to recognize that we live in a fallen world, and that we are subject to natural disasters that would not have occurred had man not chosen to rebel against God. Even so, it is difficult to imagine how we could function as free creatures in a world much different than our own--a world in which consistent natural processes allow us to predict with some certainty the consequences of our choices and actions. Take the law of gravity, for instance. This is a natural process without which we could not possibly function as human beings, yet under some circumstances it is also capable of resulting in great harm.

Certainly, God is capable of destroying evil--but not without destroying human freedom, or a world in which free creatures can function. And most agree that this line of reasoning does successfully respond to the challenge of the logical problem of evil.

The Evidential Problem of Evil
While most agree that belief in a good and powerful God is rationally possible, nonetheless many contend that the existence of such a God is improbable due to the nature of the evil which we see in the world about us. They conclude that if such a God existed it is highly unlikely that He would allow the amount and intensity of evil which we see in our world. Evil which frequently seems to be of such a purposeless nature.

This charge is not to be taken lightly, for evidence abounds in our world of evil of such a horrendous nature that it is difficult at times to fathom what possible purpose it could serve. However, difficult as this aspect of the problem of evil is, careful thinking will show that there are reasonable responses to this challenge.

Surely it is difficult for us to understand why God would allow some things to happen. But simply because we find it difficult to imagine what reasons God could have for permitting them, does not mean that no such reasons exist. It is entirely possible that such reasons are not only beyond our present knowledge, but also beyond our present ability to understand. A child does not always understand the reasons that lie behind all that his father allows or does not allow him to do. It would be unrealistic for us to expect to understand all of God's reasons for allowing all that He does. We do not fully understand many things about the world we live in--what lies behind the force of gravity for instance, or the exact function of subatomic particles. Yet we believe in these physical realities.

Beyond this, however, we can suggest possible reasons for God allowing some of the horrendous evils which do exist in our world. Perhaps there are people who would never sense their utter dependence on God apart from experiencing the intense pain that they do in life (Ps. 119:71). Perhaps there are purposes that God intends to accomplish among his angelic or demonic creatures which require his human creatures to experience some of the things that we do (Job 1-2). It may be that the suffering we experience in this life is somehow preparatory to our existence in the life to come (2 Cor. 4:16-18). Even apart from the revelation of Scripture, these are all possible reasons behind God's permission of evil. And at any rate, most people agree that there is much more good in the world than evil--at least enough good to make life well worth the living.

In responding to the challenge to belief in God based on the intensity and seeming purposelessness of much evil in the world, we must also take into account all of the positive evidence that points to his existence: the evidence of design in nature, the historical evidence for the reliability of Scripture and of the resurrection of Jesus Christ. In light of the totality of the evidence, it certainly cannot be proven that there are no sufficient reasons for God's allowing the amount of evil that we see in the world...or even that it is improbable that such reasons exist.

The Religious Problem of Evil - Part I
But the existence of evil and suffering in our world poses more than a merely philosophical or apologetic problem. It also poses a very personal religious and emotional problem for the person who is enduring great trial. Although our painful experience may not challenge our belief that God exists, what may be at risk is our confidence in a God we can freely worship and love, and in whose love we can feel secure. Much harm can be done when we attempt to aid a suffering brother or sister by merely dealing with the intellectual aspects of this problem, or when we seek to find solace for ourselves in this way. Far more important than answers about the nature of God, is a revelation of the love of God--even in the midst of trial. And as God's children, it is not nearly as important what we say about God as what we do to manifest his love.

First, it is evident from Scripture that when we suffer it is not unnatural to experience emotional pain, nor is it unspiritual to express it. It is noteworthy for instance that there are nearly as many psalms of lament as there are psalms of praise and thanksgiving, and these two sentiments are mingled together in many places (cf. Pss. 13, 88). Indeed, the psalmist encourages us to "pour out our hearts to God" (Ps. 62:8). And when we do, we can be assured that God understands our pain. Jesus Himself keenly felt the painful side of life. When John the Baptist was beheaded it is recorded that "He withdrew to a lonely place" obviously to mourn his loss (Mt. 14:13). And when his friend Lazarus died, it is recorded that Jesus openly wept at his tomb (Jn. 11:35). Even though He was committed to following the Father's will to the cross, He confessed to being filled with anguish of soul in contemplating it (Mt. 26:38). It is not without reason that Jesus was called "a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief" (Isa. 53:3); and we follow in his steps when we truthfully acknowledge our own pain.

We cross the line, however, from sorrow to sin when we allow our grief to quench our faith in God, or follow the counsel that Job was offered by his wife when she told him to "curse God and die" (Job 2:9b).

Secondly, when we suffer we should draw comfort from reflecting on Scriptures which assure us that God knows and cares about our situation, and promises to be with us to comfort and uphold us. The psalmist tells us that "the Lord is near to the brokenhearted" (Ps. 34:18), and that when we go through the "valley of the shadow of death" it is then that his presence is particularly promised to us (Ps. 23:4). Speaking through the prophet Isaiah, the Lord said, "Can a woman forget her nursing child, and have no compassion on the son of her womb? Even these may forget, but I will not forget you" (Isa. 49:15). He is more mindful of us than is a nursing mother toward her child! It is of the One whom we know as the "God of all comfort and Father of mercies" that Peter speaks when He bids us to cast our anxieties on Him, "for He cares for us" (1 Pet. 5:7). Our cares are his personal concern!

The Religious Problem of Evil - Part II
We noted that when suffering strikes it is neither unnatural to experience emotional pain, nor unspiritual to express it. But we also noted that when suffering strikes, we must be quick to reflect on the character of God and on the promises He gives to those who are enduring great trial. Now we want to focus on one of the great truths of God's Word--that even in severe trial God is working all things together for the good of those who love Him (Rom. 8:28). This is not at all to imply that evil is somehow good. But it does mean that we are to recognize that even in what is evil God is at work to bring about his good purposes in our lives.

Joseph gave evidence of having learned this truth when after years of unexplained suffering due to the betrayal of his brothers, he was able to say to them, "You meant it for evil, but God meant it for good" (Gen. 50:20). Though God did not cause his brothers to betray him, nonetheless He was able to use it in furthering his good intentions.

This is the great hope we have in the midst of suffering, that in a way beyond our comprehension, God is able to turn evil against itself. And it is because of this truth that we can find joy even in the midst of sorrow and pain. The apostle Paul described himself as "sorrowful, yet always rejoicing" (2 Cor. 6:10). And we are counseled to rejoice in trial, not because the affliction itself is a cause for joy (it is not), but because in it God can find an occasion for producing what is good.

What are some of those good purposes suffering promotes? For one, suffering can provide an opportunity for God to display his glory-- to make evident his mercy, faithfulness, power and love in the midst of painful circumstances (Jn. 9:1-3). Suffering can also allow us to give proof of the genuineness of our faith, and even serve to purify our faith (1 Pet. 1:7). As in the case of Job, our faithfulness in trial shows that we serve Him not merely for the benefits He offers, but for the love of God Himself (Job 1:9-11). Severe trial also provides an opportunity for believers to demonstrate their love for one another as members of the body of Christ who "bear one another's burdens" (1 Cor 12:26; Gal. 6:2). Indeed, as D.A. Carson has said, "experiences of suffering... engender compassion and empathy..., and make us better able to help others" (Carson, 122). As we are comforted by God in affliction, so we are better able to comfort others (2 Cor. 1:4). Suffering also plays a key role in developing godly virtues, and in deterring us from sin. Paul recognized that his "thorn in the flesh" served to keep him from boasting, and promoted true humility and dependence on God (2 Cor. 12:7). The psalmist recognized that his affliction had increased his determination to follow God's will (Ps. 119:71). Even Jesus "learned obedience from the things He suffered" (Heb. 5:8). As a man He learned by experience the value of submitting to the will of God, even when it was the most difficult thing in the world to do.

Finally, evil and suffering can awaken in us a greater hunger for heaven, and for that time when God's purposes for these experiences will have been finally fulfilled, when pain and sorrow shall be no more (Rev. 21:4).

The Grand Fonality of Religeous Doctern

Reading the comments on my previous post, it appears that some people are in doubt as to how the Bible says one should treat their own children. One commenter "highly doubt[s] God would condone murdering a 19 month old baby for not saying AMEN" and that I should reread the Bible, praying before and after every single passage. Someone else complained about verses being taken "out of context" and a third just said that she doesn't "live by Old Testament ways," despite Jesus's firm command to the contrary.

One of the many cultural myths with which I would like to do away is the notion that the Bible is somehow a sturdy moral foundation for our lives, particularly where families are concerned. To that end, I have compiled ten of the meatiest verses from both Hebrew and Christian Testament on the treatment of child and family. Of course, as these are the rules of an extinct ancient theocracy and not a modern society, they are appropriately barbaric. They are so over-the-top crazy that no sane person should assent to them, and I sincerely doubt any "Biblical literalists" are so evil as to obey them, if they are even aware of them:

10. God deems it good to punish Babylon by smashing her infant children to bits on the street, so right off the rod we know that the slaughter of children cannot be a priori an evil thing in Biblical morality. (Isaiah 13:16; note that this is an edit from before, see comments)
9. Jesus himself will cause your family and your household to be torn apart, so now we also know that it can't be a priori an evil thing to ruin families in Biblical morality. (Luke 21:16)
8. The sexual enslavement of thousands of children (32,000, to be exact) is OK, as long as God has already told you to murder their families, so we also know that neither genocide or the sexual torture of children is a priori an evil deed in Biblical morality. (Numbers 31:17-18)
7. If you mock or disobey your parents, the birds-of-prey will devour your eyes right out of your head, so the disfigurement of your own children also cannot be a sin. (Proverbs 30:17)
6. If a ruthless dictator doesn't manumit his slaves at the request of a single random soothsayer, the morally good response is to murder the children of everyone in the nation, even if they have never even heard of Moses or his god, so for the Bible moralist it is morally good to punish people for deeds in which they took no part. (Exodus 12:29)
5. A superficial (read: literal) reading of the story of the binding of Isaac makes it clear that your moral duty to obey a pernicious command from above far outweighs any love you might have for your own offspring. In Bible ethics, then, standing up for your own bloodline is not a priori a morally good action. (Genesis 22:2-13)
4. If children make fun of your bald head, the appropriate response is to have them massacred by bears. This way, we know that in Biblical morality, punishments need no proportion to the crimes. (2nd Kings 2:23)
3. If you don't hate your mom, your dad, your siblings, your children, and yourself, Jesus is wrong for you. So in Biblical morality, a cohesive family unit is a moral aberration. (Luke 14:26)
2. If a child is disobedient and doesn't listen to his parents, have the entire town get together and execute him The Lottery-style. There is no exception made here for "19 month old babies who don't say AMEN." (Deuteronomy 21:18-21)
1. And of course the most famous father-son relationship in the Bible is God's own: God loves us so much that he would torture and murder his own son to save us from God's own wrath.

So, we have learned (1) that the murder, torture, rape, disfigurement, and ritual execution of children is morally permissible in certain cases, (2) the very existence of a loving family structure is morally impermissible, and (3) and annihilation of entire cultures is OK so long as the young children are spared to fulfill the victors' sexual lust. All this is the case, unless either God is not good, or God is not the author of the Bible.

We are very fortunate indeed, then, that virtually all so-called "Biblical literalists" are either unaware of or too morally good to follow the commands to slaughter and torture written about in the Bible. While I have a great deal to say on this question, particular on the pertinence of these arguments to the Euthyphro Dilemma, I feel the point has been made so I will let it rest for now.

Questions?

Words From The Holy Cambers
From, SaintAugustine

Seems like their Allot of hate in world Hmm, would Christ write what is wrote here, member love thy neighbor, Or Is that to liberal an securer to do, Do u want me to rewrite the bible like King Jame's did an to your name on it for u, An to take out all to loving an add condemnation to it an only your an make it where only For your White Angelical Heterosexuel Christian Conservative Fundamentalism Right Wing Conservative Neo Fascist Republican Male's sin's are forgiven while u go an recomment your Sin's again an again for rest of your life, tell me i do have the power of the pin" an u will go heaven with Hitler cause god forgives u john 3:16 an love's u remember he had pity on sick an poor an dueled among the sinners only for his company, not in the company of the righteous, who keep god close to their heart's now Christ would be liberal secular agitator wouldn't u Say Maybe That the reason for his death While u an people like U bath in his blood of redemption Internel salvation forgiveness, Hmm, for would u like the idea of human sacrifice like god commanded Abranham murder his son Issaac to show if he his love was pure for hosanna, or Jehovah or Yaway god

What would the the god of Christianity Be seen as Villain or Hero if he came back as Christ Again we all or most of all know story told he was crucified for his secular liberal Radical view's just to be prayed on for everyone Redemption for scapegoating, Read Christopher Hitchens God not Great, An Away from their personal Responsibility what would he be seen as, I believe his on would not accept him on second time around, Just because he would not endorse enough hell fire hate death or convert as Pope Pius said kill them an let god sort them out, no he would in company of the unrighteous sinners helping healing sick feeding poor an doing good work's, with out casting judgment, No people of today would stone him to death or give him over to capital punishment he would be seen as a radical liberal trying to secularize human civilization,

Legislation Override 8977
Do we need to get ride of these liberal's Like Christ An Have more of solid firm Perment Conservative Agenda through out all society's an annihilate other Deity God's like these radical liberal secular agitator's as some would see them as, They cause every body to want to be love an free an accepted these are the kind of people that are setting liberal bias's to any know agenda or anything to be questioned, Does humanity need these lefty's as its said in media the gay's want to marriage, if so do we need to get rid of all the liberal bias author's an Every historical figures in bible on dealing with love accepted an not to judge an to love thy neighbor's Or do we need to eradicate denounce every historical figure, An every liberal deity like Christ an other's like him that would be perceived as a liberal heretic speeding their ideology of liberal bias morality an their philosophy's on issues on morality an on loving all no matter what an just get along an not to judge as Christ spoke of indirectly
leave your comment,

Gold Coal what ever your name is, you do have a freedom of speach, what do you don't have is to jump and ATTACK other faiths and other opionons. What you said here, you don't have a right to say. "Jesus scum" and "Fuck your sister jesus would like it" or something immature like that. I feel you are a lost soul and will stay that way. Hey, SOMEONE has to go to hell. (Lol normally wouldnt say that...but u deserve it :D) and its funny, you stop your bitching and ranting/insulting when I bring out atheiest and ask to explain.

"also too,this is only for simcountry talks,not some god damn christian religion talk between good and evil.so if you dont like what i said against all you holy crap talks,then stop it."


you also have the right to not read them if you don't like religious conversations. then heres a simple solution don't read them. or start your own thread praising atheism.

Exsacly, thank you meow I was about to say that you don't have to post here, all you gotta do is scroll your little ass down and be done with it before it even starts (:

and for those that blame religion for all the worlds evil.
I was raised in an offically atheist soceity the USSR. and guess what. the USSR is responible for more murders and crimes then any country in history. so please explain to me how religion is responsible for the cold war, the purges and the enslavment of eastern europe. if religion is responable I fail to see how.

Remind them that the USSR is basicly atheist. So that right there(among many other examples) shoots down half of their comments lol.

I served in the russian army for three years in first chechen war. after that I moved to the us and got my citizenship. I have served in the US army every since. so trust me I know religious wars. most of them are just excuses for evil men to do evil. and as the USSR example proves there are evil atheists as well.

Words From The Holy Cambers
From, SaintAugustine

Seems like their Allot of hate in world Hmm, would Christ write what is wrote here, member love thy neighbor, Or Is that to liberal an securer to do, Do u want me to rewrite the bible like King Jame's did an to your name on it for u, An to take out all to loving an add condemnation to it an only your an make it where only For your White Angelical Heterosexuel Christian Conservative Fundamentalism Right Wing Conservative Neo Fascist Republican Male's sin's are forgiven while u go an recomment your Sin's again an again for rest of your life, tell me i do have the power of the pin" an u will go heaven with Hitler cause god forgives u john 3:16 an love's u remember he had pity on sick an poor an dueled among the sinners only for his company, not in the company of the righteous, who keep god close to their heart's now Christ would be liberal secular agitator wouldn't u Say Maybe That the reason for his death While u an people like U bath in his blood of redemption Internel salvation forgiveness, Hmm, for would u like the idea of human sacrifice like god commanded Abranham murder his son Issaac to show if he his love was pure for hosanna, or Jehovah or Yaway god

What would the the god of Christianity Be seen as Villain or Hero if he came back as Christ Again we all or most of all know story told he was crucified for his secular liberal Radical view's just to be prayed on for everyone Redemption for scapegoating, Read Christopher Hitchens God not Great, An Away from their personal Responsibility what would he be seen as, I believe his on would not accept him on second time around, Just because he would not endorse enough hell fire hate death or convert as Pope Pius said kill them an let god sort them out, no he would in company of the unrighteous sinners helping healing sick feeding poor an doing good work's, with out casting judgment, No people of today would stone him to death or give him over to capital punishment he would be seen as a radical liberal trying to secularize human civilization,

Legislation Override 8977
Do we need to get ride of these liberal's Like Christ An Have more of solid firm Perment Conservative Agenda through out all society's an annihilate other Deity God's like these radical liberal secular agitator's as some would see them as, They cause every body to want to be love an free an accepted these are the kind of people that are setting liberal bias's to any know agenda or anything to be questioned, Does humanity need these lefty's as its said in media the gay's want to marriage, if so do we need to get rid of all the liberal bias author's an Every historical figures in bible on dealing with love accepted an not to judge an to love thy neighbor's Or do we need to eradicate denounce every historical figure, An every liberal deity like Christ an other's like him that would be perceived as a liberal heretic speeding their ideology of liberal bias morality an their philosophy's on issues on morality an on loving all no matter what an just get along an not to judge as Christ spoke of indirectly
leave your comment,

blah,blah,blah!!!!i'm not hearing or seeing any thing about jesus christ.i am a lost soul and i prefer stay that way and i dont want nothing to do with jesus or any thing that he says and shall not command me at all.i hate life becasue of what i been through so jesus christ did not fix my issues and my physical problems i got so dont try.i am not the only that have been hurt.i am glad some one can see my anger ill give credit for that.but i will not forgive people for hurting me and i will not forget.so sorry folks but that is the way it is.but thank you for trying.

Gold & Coal Miner,


It's Good That U realize faith religion is not your answer, but to look to your self, an what u say don't need Organized Religion fix your problems or the need of Scapegoating which is u take personal Responsibility of your action is the way to go, Scapegoating is the definition is 1 : a goat upon whose head are symbolically placed the sins of the people after which he is sent into the wilderness in the biblical ceremony for Yom Kippur
2 a : one that bears the blame for others b : one that is the object of irrational hostility your great role model for that, others should follow no needs god or make believe deity to have full life,

The Goal of Scapegoating

Scapegoating has been used by human communities to restore harmony and achieve peace since the beginning of civilization. The problem with scapegoating is not the result � peace is a good thing � but with the method used to achieve it. The costs of that method are measured in endless cycles of human suffering.

1 : a goat upon whose head are symbolically placed the sins of the people after which he is sent into the wilderness in the biblical ceremony for Yom Kippur
2 a : one that bears the blame for others b : one that is the object of irrational hostility

The Hidden Costs of Scapegoating

Scapegoating works by hiding the victim�s suffering so that scapegoaters never realize just how awful a deed they have done. With the suffering hidden, scapegoaters can continue to do harm while never doubting their own goodness or their victim�s guilt.


Someone to Blame

How is the suffering hidden? For scapegoating to occur, a community must agree on a target who can be blamed for anything that goes wrong. Sometimes a community just needs someone to BE wrong all the time, so they can know they are right. It really doesn�t matter if the person is actually guilty or wrong, as long as everyone agrees on it. That agreement allows the community to act against the scapegoat and feel justified. They can hate, abuse, ridicule, neglect, expel, wound or kill the scapegoat and actually experience feelings of joy and well-being afterward. Because the scapegoaters believe in the guilt of their scapegoat so completely, they are blind to the scapegoat�s suffering.

If You Have a Scapegoat, You Don�t Know It

No one wants to be a scapegoater. It�s an awful thing and we all know that. But the tricky thing about scapegoating is that if you are doing it, you are absolutely blind to it. What you think you are doing is being good by standing up against injustice or evil. You absolutely believe that you are right and the one whom you are scapegoating is no innocent victim at all, but someone who deserves to be hated. So how do you know if you are really standing up to injustice or just torturing some innocent victim?

Examples

� Cliques of popularity maintain the peace within their communities by focusing all their resentment outward against the unpopular. The clique never doubts their own goodness and never acknowledges the pain they have caused.
� An office staff may achieve harmony by blaming an unlucky team member for everything that goes wrong. The staff feels good and noble and remains completely unaware that they are being cruel and unfair.
� Individuals can do this, too. I can feel good about myself by hating a celebrity or politician or next door neighbor, feeling at peace with myself at the expense of an unfair attitude toward another.

Signs of Scapegoating

Here are some signs that you are scapegoating:

1) You are absolutely convinced of someone�s guilt.
2) You think that his version of things is filled with lies and distortions.
3) You celebrate wounding, �killing off�, or killing another.
4) If someone did to you what you are justifying in the name of goodness, their actions would be undeniable proof of their wickedness.

The Courage to End Scapegoating

To be sure you are not scapegoating, you must find the courage to honestly listen to the story of those whom you are convinced is guilty or evil. Seeing the suffering that they endure because of your persecution will destroy your ability to scapegoat them. The courage to end scapegoating requires the courage to admit you were wrong.

Welcome To Atheism personal Responsibility is right way go, But u need compassion an that not allways easy but u have life time to work for u to give to compassion to human race an no one is exactly perfect,

Cheers From,
SaintAugustine
U Have found the light an true shall an has set u free

Gold & Coal Miner,


I lost soul i guide u to light



From,
Nemesis Caesar

It's Good That U realize faith religion is not your answer, but to look to your self, an what u just said is don't need Organized Religion or faith to fix your problems or the need of Scapegoating which takes away your personal Responsibility an your will take on your action own is the way to go, an other should follow your example as u an i an other atheist as us


Scapegoating is the definition is


1: is a goat upon whose head are symbolically placed the sins of the people after which he is sent into the wilderness in the biblical ceremony for Yom Kippur
2: one that bears the blame for others b : one that is the object of irrational hostility your great role model for that, others should follow no needs god or make believe deity to have full life,

The Goal of Scapegoating

Scapegoating has been used by human communities to restore harmony and achieve peace since the beginning of civilization. The problem with scapegoating is not the result a peace is a good thing but with the method used to achieve it. The costs of that method are measured in endless cycles of human suffering.

1: a goat upon whose head are symbolically placed the sins of the people after which he is sent into the wilderness in the biblical ceremony for Yom Kippur
2: one that bears the blame for others b : one that is the object of irrational hostility

The Hidden Costs of Scapegoating

Scapegoating works by hiding the victim s suffering so that scapegoaters never realize just how awful a deed they have done. With the suffering hidden, scapegoaters can continue to do harm while never doubting their own goodness or their victim s guilt.


Someone to Blame

How is the suffering hidden? For scapegoating to occur, a community must agree on a target who can be blamed for anything that goes wrong. Sometimes a community just needs someone to BE wrong all the time, so they can know they are right. It really doesn't matter if the person is actually guilty or wrong, as long as everyone agrees on it. That agreement allows the community to act against the scapegoat and feel justified. They can hate, abuse, ridicule, neglect, expel, wound or kill the scapegoat and actually experience feelings of joy and well-being afterward. Because the scapegoaters believe in the guilt of their scapegoat so completely, they are blind to the scapegoats suffering.

If You Have a Scapegoat, You Don't Know It

No one wants to be a scapegoater. It a an awful thing and we all know that. But the tricky thing about scapegoating is that if you are doing it, you are absolutely blind to it. What you think you are doing is being good by standing up against injustice or evil. You absolutely believe that you are right and the one whom you are scapegoating is no innocent victim at all, but someone who deserves to be hated. So how do you know if you are really standing up to injustice or just torturing some innocent victim?

Examples

1.Cliques of popularity maintain the peace within their communities by focusing all their resentment outward against the unpopular. The clique never doubts their own goodness and never acknowledges the pain they have caused.
2. An office staff may achieve harmony by blaming an unlucky team member for everything that goes wrong. The staff feels good and noble and remains completely unaware that they are being cruel and unfair.
3.Individuals can do this, too. I can feel good about myself by hating a celebrity or politician or next door neighbor, feeling at peace with myself at the expense of an unfair attitude toward another.

Signs of Scapegoating

Here are some signs that you are scapegoating:

1) You are absolutely convinced of someones guilt.
2) You think that his version of things is filled with lies and distortions.
3) You celebrate wounding, â killing off others or killing another.
4) If someone did to you what you are justifying in the name of goodness, their actions would be undeniable proof of their wickedness.

The Courage to End Scapegoating

To be sure you are not scapegoating, you must find the courage to honestly listen to the story of those whom you are convinced is guilty or evil. Seeing the suffering that they endure because of your persecution will destroy your ability to scapegoat them. The courage to end scapegoating requires the courage to admit you were wrong.

Welcome To Atheism personal Responsibility is right way go, But u need compassion an that not always easy but u have life time to work for u to give to compassion to human race an no one is exactly perfect,

Cheers From,
Nemesis Caesar
U Have found the light an true shall an has set u free.

DUBLIN (AFP) - Ireland's Catholic Church apologised Thursday after a damning new report showed it covered up child sex abuse over more than three decades.

The Irish government also said sorry for failing to protect children in the wake of the latest report, published six months after a first landmark study revealed widespread abuse of children in Catholic care.

"I offer to each and every survivor my apology, my sorrow and my shame for what happened," said Diarmuid Martin, archbishop of Dublin since 2004.
"I am aware that no words of apology will ever be sufficient," he said, adding that "the fact that many abusers were priests constituted both an offence to God and an affront to the priesthood."

The country's most senior Catholic, Cardinal Sean Brady, echoed the comments, saying "I want to apologise to all those who have been hurt and their families."
Following a three-year investigation in the Dublin Archdiocese, the country's largest, the report concluded that four archbishops routinely protected abusers and failed to inform police of the allegations.

One priest admitted to sexually abusing over 100 children, while another confessed that he had abused on a fortnightly basis over 25 years.
"The volume of revelations of child sexual abuse by clergy over the past 35 years or so has been described by a Church source as a 'tsunami' of sexual abuse," said the report.

The Irish government also immediately apologised.
"Whatever the historical and societal reasons for this, the government... apologises, without reservation or equivocation, for failures by the agencies of the state in dealing with this issue," it said in a statement.

The judicial probe discovered that the archbishops did not report abuse to police until the 1990s as part of a culture of secrecy and to try and avoid damaging the reputation of the Church.
The report said: "All other considerations, including the welfare of children and justice for victims, were subordinated to these priorities."

It found children who complained "were often met with denial, arrogance and cover-up and with incompetence and incomprehension in some cases. Suspicions were rarely acted on."
The study comes just six months after a landmark report in May horrified mainly Catholic Ireland by revealing widespread sexual, physical and emotional abuse of children in Catholic-run institutions dating back to the 1930s.

Irish Justice Minister Dermot Ahern said he read the findings with "a growing sense of revulsion and anger" and promised there would be "no hiding place" for the perpetrators.
"The report catalogues evil after evil committed in the name of what was perversely seen as the greater good," he said.

Victims welcomed the new report.
Marie Collins, who was abused as a child in 1960, said: "This is the end of a very long road for victims of abuse and particularly for those of us who spoke out for so many years, and who were vilified by the church (and) called liars."

The 750-page landmark report by judge Yvonne Murphy is damning in its criticism of failures to protect vulnerable children.
The probe examined complaints of abuse of over 320 children involving a representative sample of 46 priests in the Dublin Archdiocese between 1975 and 2004.

The report said the phrase, "don't ask, don't tell" was appropriate to describe the attitude of the archdiocese to clerical sex abuse for most of the period covered by the report.
"Typically, complainants were not told that other instances of child sexual abuse by their abuser had been proved or admitted," it added.

Responding to the report, human rights group Amnesty International called for an urgent referendum to enshrine children's rights in the Irish constitution to prevent future abuse.

"This report makes for deeply shocking reading, even after all that has gone before it," said executive director of Amnesty International Ireland Colm O'Gorman, himself a victim of sexual abuse by priests.


How do you explain this then??If you so smart ass.This is catholic church doing and it comes from jesus christ.

A Catholic brother is accused of a 1980s sex attack on a teenager he was counselling after the youth had been molested by another man, a court has been told.

After the alleged incident, the boys' parents were told William Stanley Irwin would not work with youngsters again, but he subsequently became a dormitory master at St Stanislaus College in Bathurst and a teacher at St Aloysius College in Sydney, the court heard.

Irwin, 54, of Pyrmont in inner Sydney, appeared in Sydney's Downing Centre Local court on Tuesday, charged with two counts of gross indecency on a male under the age of 18 in the mid-1980s.
After Irwin's arrest last week, he was stood down from his current teaching job at St Aloysius College at Milsons Point, on Sydney's lower north shore, a day school for boys run by the Jesuits, the court was told.

Irwin is the 10th man to be charged following an investigation by Strike Force Bell into claims of sexual assaults on students at two secondary colleges at Bathurst, in central western NSW, between 1960 and 1993.
Some offences allegedly occurred at the prestigious boys' boarding school, St Stanislaus College.

According to police facts, Irwin was a Vincentian brother based at St Stanislaus between 1980 and 1983 and 1987 and 1989.
He left the Vincentian order in 2002.

The facts said Irwin's alleged victim was 15 when he was sexually assaulted by another man, who later pleaded guilty and was jailed.
At the time Irwin, who worked in a Victorian parish, was a "spiritual director" of the Catholic youth group ANTIOCH and provided counselling to youths.

The abused boy's parents, who trusted Irwin, had been referred to him for assistance with counselling for their son, the facts said.
When the youth was 17, Irwin allegedly took him on a trip to Sydney, before allegedly staying with him overnight at St Stanislaus and sexually abusing him.

After the boy's parents complained, the then-Vincentian Provincial, Father Gerald Scott, allegedly promised Irwin would be removed from all positions involving contact with children or young people.
But that did not happen, the statement says, and he in fact became dormitory master and taught personal development and religion at St Stanislaus.

The facts said police had located the Provincial's file on the matter, which was headed "strictly confidential".
In it, Father Scott allegedly recorded that Irwin had admitted "the bed incident" but said Irwin did not believe he had "a homosexual condition".

In the file, he allegedly wrote: "He must not go to Bathurst."
Magistrate Jane Culver continued Irwin's bail but ordered him not to be in the company of anyone under the age of 18 without supervision.

The matter was adjourned to the same court on February 11.


This is also another one....I rest my case.And if you think I would join Jesus Christ army of God from the LIGHT?My answer is no.

Nobody on here asked you to join. its called free will and yes christians sin. there are evil people in every group and the cathlic church is no exeption. to me the whole practice of celebacy for prests is wrong. no where in the bible does it say that anyone has to be celebent.
in fact gods first commandment was be fruitful and multiply. you get a bunch of people together that are repressing there natural instincts then it will happen. what pisses me off is them not reporting it. that however was a political decision. not gods answer. the bible calls what happened to those kids an abomination. me personnally I am a russian jew so if anyone has a reason to dislike christions it is me. yet I don't. most christions I know here in the us are good people and respect me as a person and a jew.
I am in the us army we have people of all races and religions. yet we manage to get along and work together. that is because of respect you do not have to agree with someones faith to respect it. there are many things in the christion bible that I as a jew do not agree with, but I am respectful of there beliefs, and say so without offending anyone. we are all adults here if you can't respect someones faith or race. then go back to burning your books and shouting sieg heil.

your snake, Slivering on all issues your what some would call Liberal Religious bias patsy that approves Scapegoating, i say as i wish, to u but some of us will bare our on cross an take our on personal Responsibility if we slip or comment murder or a wrongful act to humanity an not seeking eternal life over it all,


From SaintAugustine

Why does a poet zoom beneath this arcane indent? Why can't tomatoes draw the penny? The axiom straws the island in the straight author. Bananas rest upon tomatoes throughout each starred medium.
Too u too, SantAwgastine.

It's Good That Gold & Coal Miner That U realize faith religion is not your answer, but to look to your self, an what u just said is don't need Organized Religion or faith to fix your problems or the need of Scapegoating which takes away your personal Responsibility an your will take on your action own is the way to go, an other should follow your example as u an i an other atheist as us


Scapegoating is the definition is


1: is a goat upon whose head are symbolically placed the sins of the people after which he is sent into the wilderness in the biblical ceremony for Yom Kippur
2: one that bears the blame for others b : one that is the object of irrational hostility your great role model for that, others should follow no needs god or make believe deity to have full life,

The Goal of Scapegoating

Scapegoating has been used by human communities to restore harmony and achieve peace since the beginning of civilization. The problem with scapegoating is not the result a peace is a good thing but with the method used to achieve it. The costs of that method are measured in endless cycles of human suffering.

1: a goat upon whose head are symbolically placed the sins of the people after which he is sent into the wilderness in the biblical ceremony for Yom Kippur
2: one that bears the blame for others b : one that is the object of irrational hostility

The Hidden Costs of Scapegoating

Scapegoating works by hiding the victim s suffering so that scapegoaters never realize just how awful a deed they have done. With the suffering hidden, scapegoaters can continue to do harm while never doubting their own goodness or their victim s guilt.


Someone to Blame

How is the suffering hidden? For scapegoating to occur, a community must agree on a target who can be blamed for anything that goes wrong. Sometimes a community just needs someone to BE wrong all the time, so they can know they are right. It really doesn't matter if the person is actually guilty or wrong, as long as everyone agrees on it. That agreement allows the community to act against the scapegoat and feel justified. They can hate, abuse, ridicule, neglect, expel, wound or kill the scapegoat and actually experience feelings of joy and well-being afterward. Because the scapegoaters believe in the guilt of their scapegoat so completely, they are blind to the scapegoats suffering.

If You Have a Scapegoat, You Don't Know It

No one wants to be a scapegoater. It a an awful thing and we all know that. But the tricky thing about scapegoating is that if you are doing it, you are absolutely blind to it. What you think you are doing is being good by standing up against injustice or evil. You absolutely believe that you are right and the one whom you are scapegoating is no innocent victim at all, but someone who deserves to be hated. So how do you know if you are really standing up to injustice or just torturing some innocent victim?

Examples

1.Cliques of popularity maintain the peace within their communities by focusing all their resentment outward against the unpopular. The clique never doubts their own goodness and never acknowledges the pain they have caused.
2. An office staff may achieve harmony by blaming an unlucky team member for everything that goes wrong. The staff feels good and noble and remains completely unaware that they are being cruel and unfair.
3.Individuals can do this, too. I can feel good about myself by hating a celebrity or politician or next door neighbor, feeling at peace with myself at the expense of an unfair attitude toward another.

Signs of Scapegoating

Here are some signs that you are scapegoating:

1) You are absolutely convinced of someones guilt.
2) You think that his version of things is filled with lies and distortions.
3) You celebrate wounding, �¢ killing off others or killing another.
4) If someone did to you what you are justifying in the name of goodness, their actions would be undeniable proof of their wickedness.

The Courage to End Scapegoating

To be sure you are not scapegoating, you must find the courage to honestly listen to the story of those whom you are convinced is guilty or evil. Seeing the suffering that they endure because of your persecution will destroy your ability to scapegoat them. The courage to end scapegoating requires the courage to admit you were wrong.

Welcome To Atheism personal Responsibility is right way go, But u need compassion an that not always easy but u have life time to work for u to give to compassion to human race an no one is exactly perfect,

Cheers From,
SaintAugustine. let brake bread like the jew's do shall we an be marry,
U Have found the light an true shall an has set u free.


P.S Laguna u don't seem to get the Hug problem on religion it's poisonous proseption, on all humanity that take away personal responsibility

Here Rememberable Moment at YouTube of Jimmy Swaggart an his Scapegoationg From Jesus Deity http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1OXAi7rNMg&feature=related Who slept with Postitute, Family Value for ya right their

An it makes u believe, In fairy Tales fables story telling an unreasonable logic, Like the storys when we where all childern we believe that is was so it was passed on by word of mouth an what other told us about them,


An to u Meow69,



Your snake, I say. Something This Every Morning inyour Jewish prayer, As I Quote, Its says, for all males To Thank god I'm not woman or gentile , Slivering on all issues your what some would call Liberal Religious bias patsy that approves Scapegoating, i say as i wish, to u but some of us will bare our on cross an take our on personal Responsibility if we slip or comment murder or a wrongful act to humanity an not WE Are not seeking eternal life over it all,


For all to know About the Jewish Daily Prayer Here Goes this shows u all organized religion is evil hateful an Alot ugly elements, here goes


Jews daily thank God that they were not born Gentiles, women, or slaves
This is a fact. I looked it up in my little Sedur (Jewish prayer book).

The exact prayer is this:

"Blessed are you, Hashem, King of the Universe, for not having made me a Gentile."

"Blessed are you, Hashem, King of the Universe, for not having made me a slave."

Blessed are you, Hashem, King of the Universe, for not having made me a woman."

This prayer is said every morning by millions of Jews around the world.


Should Jews stop saying this prayer, as it is highly offensive to non-Jews and women? (and slaves)

I say, it is the 21st century, and its time to evolve.

Plus the fact that Jews make a huge stink about Catholic prayers that are deemed offensive to Jews. Its time to practice what we preach.




From SaintAugustine

P.S Lol Maybe The Christian or Christian Devil or Christian God, is making me do all this is not my fault i was born this way, like Christians say when they fall sort or comment a great atrocity to all humanity

Like Jimmy Swagart said oh" lord forgive me, I've Sinned I Need to be washed by your blood forgiveness Hm, Scapegoating for u right their Here Your Famous Quote of Scapegoating From Jimmy Swaggart, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1OXAi7rNMg&feature=related Who slept with Postitute, Family Value for ya right their

SaintA. I'm sorry but I don't read your posts they are way too long lol and the first few senteces make no sence :\ sorry I am sure they are nice to read thou!

Religion an Faith makes u believe, In fairy Tales fables story telling an unreasonable logic, Like the Stories when we where all children we believe that is was so it was passed on by word of mouth an what other told us about them,


An to u Meow69,


Your snake, I say. U Say Something This Like This Every Morning in your Jewish prayer, As I Quote, Its says, for all males To Thank god that your not woman or gentile ,U Slivering on all issues your what some would call Liberal Religious bias patsy that approves Scapegoating, I say, an i will say as i wish, To all of u on Religion an Faith that some of us like logical human beings as like i an Atheist will bare our on cross an take our on personal Responsibility if we slip or comment murder or a wrongful act to humanity an not WE Are not seeking eternal life over it all,


For all to know About the Jewish Daily Prayer Here Goes this shows u all organized religion is evil hateful an Alot ugly elements, here goes


Jews daily thank God that they were not born Gentiles, women, or slaves
This is a fact. I looked it up in my little Sedur (Jewish prayer book).

The exact prayer is this:

"Blessed are you, Hashem, King of the Universe, for not having made me a Gentile."

"Blessed are you, Hashem, King of the Universe, for not having made me a slave."

Blessed are you, Hashem, King of the Universe, for not having made me a woman."

This prayer is said every morning by millions of Jews around the world.


Should Jews stop saying this prayer, as it is highly offensive to non-Jews and women? (and slaves)

I say, it is the 21st century, and its time to evolve.

Plus the fact that Jews make a huge stink about Catholic prayers that are deemed offensive to Jews. Its time to practice what we preach.


From Saint Augustine

P.S Lol Maybe The Christian or Christian Devil or Christian God, is making me do all this is not my fault i was born this way, like Christians say when they fall sort or comment a great atrocity to all humanity

Like Jimmy Swagger said oh" lord forgive me, I've Sinned I Need to be washed by your blood forgiveness Hm, Scapegoating for u right their Here Your Famous Quote of Scapegoating From Jimmy Swagger, Who slept with Prostitute, Family Value for ya right their,


Faith religion is not your answer, but to look to your self, no one need's Organized Religion or faith to fix their problems for the need of Scapegoating which takes away your personal Responsibility an everyone should bare their on own actions this is the way to go, an other should follow this example as us atheist do as reasonable reasonable human beings


Scapegoating is the definition is


1: is a goat upon whose head are symbolically placed the sins of the people after which he is sent into the wilderness in the biblical ceremony for Yom Kippur
2: one that bears the blame for others b : one that is the object of irrational hostility your great role model for that, others should follow no needs god or make believe deity to have full life,

The Goal of Scapegoating

Scapegoating has been used by human communities to restore harmony and achieve peace since the beginning of civilization. The problem with scapegoating is not the result a peace is a good thing but with the method used to achieve it. The costs of that method are measured in endless cycles of human suffering.

1: a goat upon whose head are symbolically placed the sins of the people after which he is sent into the wilderness in the biblical ceremony for Yom Kippur
2: one that bears the blame for others b : one that is the object of irrational hostility

The Hidden Costs of Scapegoating

Scapegoating works by hiding the victim s suffering so that scapegoaters never realize just how awful a deed they have done. With the suffering hidden, scapegoaters can continue to do harm while never doubting their own goodness or their victim s guilt.


Someone to Blame

How is the suffering hidden? For scapegoating to occur, a community must agree on a target who can be blamed for anything that goes wrong. Sometimes a community just needs someone to BE wrong all the time, so they can know they are right. It really doesn't matter if the person is actually guilty or wrong, as long as everyone agrees on it. That agreement allows the community to act against the scapegoat and feel justified. They can hate, abuse, ridicule, neglect, expel, wound or kill the scapegoat and actually experience feelings of joy and well-being afterward. Because the scapegoaters believe in the guilt of their scapegoat so completely, they are blind to the scapegoats suffering.

If You Have a Scapegoat, You Don't Know It

No one wants to be a scapegoater. It a an awful thing and we all know that. But the tricky thing about scapegoating is that if you are doing it, you are absolutely blind to it. What you think you are doing is being good by standing up against injustice or evil. You absolutely believe that you are right and the one whom you are scapegoating is no innocent victim at all, but someone who deserves to be hated. So how do you know if you are really standing up to injustice or just torturing some innocent victim?

Examples

1.Cliques of popularity maintain the peace within their communities by focusing all their resentment outward against the unpopular. The clique never doubts their own goodness and never acknowledges the pain they have caused.
2. An office staff may achieve harmony by blaming an unlucky team member for everything that goes wrong. The staff feels good and noble and remains completely unaware that they are being cruel and unfair.
3.Individuals can do this, too. I can feel good about myself by hating a celebrity or politician or next door neighbor, feeling at peace with myself at the expense of an unfair attitude toward another.

Signs of Scapegoating

Here are some signs that you are scapegoating:

1) You are absolutely convinced of someones guilt.
2) You think that his version of things is filled with lies and distortions.
3) You celebrate wounding, killing off others or killing another.
4) If someone did to you what you are justifying in the name of goodness, their actions would be undeniable proof of their wickedness.

The Courage to End Scapegoating

To be sure you are not scapegoating, you must find the courage to honestly listen to the story of those whom you are convinced is guilty or evil. Seeing the suffering that they endure because of your persecution will destroy your ability to scapegoat them. The courage to end scapegoating requires the courage to admit you were wrong.

Welcome To Atheism personal Responsibility is right way go, But u need compassion an that not always easy but u have life time to work for u to give to compassion to human race an no one is exactly perfect,

Cheers From,
SaintAugustine. let brake bread like the jew's do shall we an be marry,
U Have found the light an true shall an has set u free.


P.S Laguna u don't seem to get the Hug problem on religion it's poisonous proseption, on all humanity that take away personal responsibility

Me cups you. You coughs with a muttering rod. Will a unavoidable pan understand the researcher? You pains the positioning appearance. You chambers the constant. You bobs an interpreter above the aggressive liquid.

bobs . . . LOL!