The problem and solution to C3 Warriors (Golden Rainbow)

wendy, i don't think wb, eo (who's said very little here,) and company want to make a rule change to be able to over run players.

if you see that as a result, well, i'll concede that it could happen. I'll also not speak for EO, in regards to GR, as i barely even keep up with what goes on on that planet, and EO is a big boy that can speak for himself.same with WB

how ever, i do appropriate your opinion. as i agree with you on many points. there are large, unseen, multi-complex alliances. that a person who honestly just wants to enjoy fighting some one that looks like a challenge, ends up in a much larger fight than anticipated. for a new player that spends a little time researching how the war engine works, reads wild's how to thread, and wants to put it to use... then goes looking for a target, scouts them, out, and their fed, and carefully prepares to do war. then finds themselves at war with 90% of the world... its rather daunting. its happened to me

and it certainly seems unfair. but the flip side of it, when a person builds friendships, of course friends are going to help each other, thats what friends do. as in real life, they are out going people who make allot of friends, powerful people, who allot of people want to make friends with, these thing naturally happen, and to expect some one to say, "no, i have to many friends already..." well, not many people say that... so the "problem," you point out, isn't anything sinister, but rather people enjoying playing a game.

personally, i believe that you are an intelligent, person, with a good sense of humor, and strong sense of justice. all very good traits. however like anything, over doing something, can become a bad trait. you believe that too many power players are in the same group? well, constantly harassing them, to make them break up their club, will never solve that problem.

the problem, is not players acting unfairly, but rather the result of an "end game," scenario. were the players that are playing have been playing for quite some time, and have of course gotten to know each other, with the result that they would ally with each other, or at least, choose not to confront each other.

their are 2 solutions to this,

1. we need more players, which is of course, difficult, when all the power base is one sided. why would some one want to try to get into the war game, when anytime they try something, 8+ players come after them?

2. we need mentoring for new players, (contrary to what jo said, and in agreement with vicious,) a new player, with some direction, can easily build up a decent empire, safely, and quickly.

to back up point number 2, my current account is less than 4 months old, and i've only payed the 12 for membership, for the first and second set of 3 months. take a look at what i've got on WG. and consider i've been their for only 2 months. it really doesn't take that long, if you know what your doing. of course, having a new account is not the same as being a new player, but my point is that it is possible.

however, wendy, with all do respect, your method to level the playing field, has only isolated you. and with your constant bashing of feds, has infact chased many players away. meaning, your method to try to make things more "fair," has actually made thing more "unfair," and in fact, your use of war protection, has caused many players to rather do with out a nice feature, than deal with what you do.

i really don't mean to offend you, as i do have allot of respect for you. few people in real life can be so unmoving, deal with so many insults, for so long, for what they see is right. its a good quality. however, enough is enough, your not helping the game

if you want to make things fair, you'd find a way to mentor a group of players, such as DTA, teach them what you know, and help them become a force capable of taking on "the mob," do what you can to level the playing field, that would be a much more effective way to keep, WB, and EO, and such from over running people with WP.

To be fair, Orbiter, I would bet my account that n00b stomping by an astronomical margin has driven more players 'away' that anything I can or ever will do in the game.

The difference is, I do what I do to capable players who are intelligent enough to know how to avoid it. It is a matter of personal choice and pride. I don't randomly select players or any group of players to attack in hopes of driving anyone 'away'. Your rebuttal is full of invalid assumptions that take what is being displayed out of context. You repeat the nonsense of players being chased 'away' by me, but can you honestly say a sizable amount of players were driven away? Not really. And if any number was in fact driven away, the choice was simple, remove yourself from a certain aggressive fed or fight. I can't force them to leave a federation, so I certainly cannot drive anyone from the game. To repeat what you have heard as fact is irresponsible for a player and intelligence of your stature.

I don't care what you or anyone here thinks of what I do. Its just a game, and I'll play it as I pay it. Case Closed. Why do you assume that I am not 'helping' the game? I pay my membership fees, and I don't bother anyone unless they are calling me to play, or messing with my friends. It's basic give and take. I guess you mean I should pay my 48 dollars a year and donate assets to a lost cause, or play to another players satisfaction. This is flawed thinking and I think you know that already.

On the meat and potatoes side of the issue, if any changes are coming, I really don't care, if I want to play with you I'll play. It could cost a couple more coins, I'll just make sure it costs my opponent a little more as well.

I've tried to avoid this conversation because I think its easy to make opinions based on what side of the fence you're looking from.

Wendy,
My GR wars were the product of you. I had 3 countries (2 slaves) for about a month and was sitting around with no war protection. I had been slowly selling off because GR is one of 4 worlds I play on, and normally the least fun.

When you pissed me off enough that I felt like killing someone, I did just that. I purchased my old countries back and killed people who were associated with you. They were out of war protection - and they were friends/allies/whatever you want to call - with a player who was declaring war on every weakly defended country on GR. They paid the price.

After that war, I sold my countries off again, but kept the same 2 slaves. John was brave enough to declare on me, and got pretty lucky that there was holes in my nuke defense. He didn't fire ONE SHOT besides nukes until my country wasn't able to even support an air wing (60 mil to 13 mil), and there really was no countering anything for me. I had one deactivation and there was no fixing it.

This said, I have great respect for John, and our messages to each other have been quite civil. He sees this for what it is - a game - and he plays the game the right way. With risks come the rewards. He put his empire on the line, and with a little persistence, he was rewarded by taking a top 10 war slave (regardless of method). That country was about as valuable as Johns entire empire (8 or 9 countries) before our wars.

I have not once complained about it - nor do I wish to. If you take stuff from people, be prepared to pay the price.

I'm not hiding from anyone, nor have I ever. If you want to fight me, pick a time and place - or just dec me.

@Jojo - yes I (and later WB and co) did use c3s against you guys after the war was mostly over, and quite devastatingly so. A large part of this was nukes on my part, and they have since made it much more difficult to build c3s of the caliber seen during that war.

As far as WP rules helping bigger players play:
There did not used to be war protection and the game thrived. No war protection, no secured mode. People NEEDED to join federations to survive and learn the game. There were many more players who knew what they were doing and were willing to step up to the plate for a friend.

If we (Mob) really wanted to, we could raid everyone out of war protection on LU whenever we wanted. No one could stop us. This part of your argument is true. The same could be said for ANY group of powerful players (power is relative) on any planet. Whoever is the biggest ALWAYS has the advantage. The Mob wasn't always the biggest, nor will it remain the biggest for eternity. We've earned our stripes and fought anyone who has stepped up to the plate. There have been many powerful federations before us, and there will be many powerful feds after us.

However, since January 1st, we've fought ONE group of players, period (DTA - their federation is named Death To All, hardly a peaceful name). They responded by building up and attacking us back. If they had any semblance of skill or notion of what they were doing, they would be formidible. However, they did not, and we took all 31 or so countries that they declared on us with.

IN CONCLUSION:
I am not opposed to war protection as a whole, just the ways it can be exploited. I really like the idea of no nukes new countries, or at least putting some minimal requirements for using nukes. C3s are a necessary part of the game and should remain so. They just shouldn't be something that takes a player 10 minutes to take, but have the power to ruin months worth of work with 10 nukes/clicks.

There have been complaints about specific players and rules in the past, but this complaint has been around since I began simcountry. What frustrates me most about it is it pushes players away from federations and into wp. Players don't make friends, and don't help each other.

If I played solo on LU, you wouldn't be talking about the Mob in oppressive terms. Same goes for any of our members.

We've known each other forever and will risk our own assets to help each other. We are not saints, nor will we ever be, but if thats not the way the game should be played, then perhaps there should never have been any federations.

WP or Feds - I say feds. Teach players.

Don't lie EO, you did what you did because I wouldn't beg you not to. What the F**K do I look like? I bow to know one, certainly not some imitation internet deity. You make me sick to the nth degree, and the future will be full of LuLz for you and your mates. I will hold them to the same standard you held mine. Let's see who yells loudest when all is said and done. No rule change, twisted story, 'Eo is away from the game with Mental problems" or any other excuse will change or solve that. It is what it is. I'm currently consolidating. But I'll be swinging all your way soon enough.

Cheers to change.

Federations are in the game, because they are useful, so is WP, the argument is null and void.

Lol wendy. Read the arguments. Players have no complaints to the format of federations. Since you've been playing the list goes on and on of players who have complained bitterly about your abuse of war protection. There are numerous threads about war protection. That is the discussion: war protection.

We'll see whos laughing when the rules change

If players don't want to get attacked, then don't provoke other players, and don't sit around without friends. As I've said, we've had ONE offensive campaign in 8 months. We're hardly killing everyone. Play nice and you'll be fine.

I welcome the rule changes. I have said that previously, I didn't just switch up my words for today's discussion.

Yes I'll be laughing if the rules change. Because I am going to adjust, and apply it 10 times as much as I do now. If you cry now....

I am not complaining about federations.

I am not spamming for every aspect of the game that isn't desirable in my eyes to be changed.

I am not 'abusing' a feature in any way. What you are talking about has been done in the past by the same players making the argument.

That is the difference in me and all you TiTs that you don't get. You do what you do, and you are 'cool'. When you don't get your way you cry about it like 2 year olds. But when something bothers me I just deal with it. I am not asking w3c to give me some advantage that would make it more attractive for me to challenge a larger or more skilled opponent. I just take what is given me, and use it as best as possible. I have over 900 levels of chess, we have only been to stage 5. I can take whatever is available and use it, and impose my will on you.

Yes lets see who is laughing when the rules change lol. Whatever. I haven't even swiped a Visa yet. But I will to laugh even harder.

Wendy the lies are getting ridiculous:

"The difference is, I do what I do to capable players who are intelligent enough to know how to avoid it. It is a matter of personal choice and pride."

Don't bullsh*t everyone, you pick the weakest members of feds or the weakest countries to attack. You know that is true and so does everyone else...why else would I have seen exactly 1 nuke from you in all of your issues with me? Don't pretend that you are doing anything other than asset raiding weak/inactive players or countries using 'justice' as an excuse and hoping no one notices.

Keep up the threats Wendy, the difference between what EO did and what you do is that you can choose any one of us to attack...you talk sh*t and cause problems and then hide in WP, so your fed and friends got attacked. EO and I have been out of WP on every world for over a year now...funny that for some reason we get the least of your attacks even though we are the people who have done everything you swear you're seeking justice for...very odd indeed.

How have we taken control of LU? Is it because we are so much better than those that came before us? Better than LDI, Valde, SNA, etc? Probably not, we just don't really have much to challenge us. Those feds all existed in a time where feds were REALLY important for defense. The reason feds are not important is WP and c3 warfare, which is why players are isolated and do just as Vicious suggested and pay their 1 GC per day.

This game used to have a lot more players who were good at war, who fought real fights. Our fed is tiny by their standards, we're 6 people and have 3 billion in population...that isn't massive or overwhelming. Players before were willing to, as Jojo and Beast have noted, lose something and when they did they would learn something. Without risk there is no reward which is why you are exactly as good today as you were last year or the year before...no risk, no reward.

Why don't you explain your reasoning about why the game is so much different with so many fewer players, so many fewer federations, so many fewer wars and where tiny feds like us can 'control' LU? I'd love to hear that one...I'm sure you do like it better now because in that world you actually had to do something to be someone instead of just talking about it.

Ok... How have we gone full circle here now too?

More CHEEZE!!!

When I read threads such as this one, I cannot help but hear don't bring around a cloud to rain on my parade...

Did I hear cheese? Usually means "someone" just got owned and has no other response...err, but what do I know? :P

Don't you have some fantasy about dubletarian uptopian news fLASHES , OR SPAM OF NOTHING MEANINGFUL TO TEND TO.

How is SCWN 1257.12 dot PHAIL coming along?

Reporting live from nowhere inside my empty head... this is Anderson p00per for 360.

This was a fairly high signal to noise ratio conversation until recently. People who are trying to galvanize public opinion to help improve the game: don't get caught up in the slog of guerrilla debating tactics! No one cares who lied to who, how many countries you had when so and so nuked so and so, and etc. You guys are standing von Clausewitz on his head by making debating a continuation of war by other means.

Wendy has had some good points amidst the chatter, and some of us would like to encourage more, not less, of those insights.

Too much reading now to keep up.