United Nations

For Vali and the rest of you who are wondering why the UN arn't doing anything to help the Palestinians.

We all know the European Union does the UN's job.

Which is.... nothing?

UN isn't referred to the Useless Nations without just cause.

Its a bloated , corrupt, useless bureacracy. Yes, perhaps its social programs do some good now and then.

But as for being a peace keeping organization, its a joke.

Why should the UN be doing anything to help the Palestinians? It is and has been withing their power to remove Hamas from Gaza and the PALESTINIANS have failed to complete this task. They now reap what they have allowed Hamas to sow. There would be peace in the middle east today if the Arabs (meaning Hamas and Hezbollah) laid down their arms. Look at Egypt and Israel, maybe not a cordial relationship, but once Egypt stopped trying to attack Israel, Israel has not done a damn thing but become a really good trading partner. Israel proved its commitment to peace 3 years ago. The Palestinians had their chance for peace and freedom. Instead they allow Hamas to take over and to continually fire rockets into Israel. Enough is enough. Gaza and the Palestinians there had their chance.

I'm very pro-Israeli but I do know that the Palestinians have a legitimate beef with Israel. It goes back to post-WW2 when Great Britain partitioned the country to bring the Jews back. It forced a LOT of palestinians from their homes and into refugee camps.

I've only learned that much within the last couple of years. Americans, as a whole, are completely ignorant of what is going on there. We see what the news reporters show us. There's a lot more in the history.

BC

You are partially correct, BorderC. There is no evidence of forced displacement of Palestineans from their homes. Many Palestineans evacuated immediately prior to the invasion of the neighboring Arab states in '48 and never returned.

Palestinean "beefs" arise justifiably from the conduct of the Israelis during the years since occupation.

There's been a lot of historical revisionism on both sides, so be careful of your sources when researching this subject.

Bush Finally gets something right and blocks a retarded cease fire resolution from being imposed upon Israel


And you thought he was st00pid?

Bush is on a crusade. The Jews are his pawns. Could this be the time of Revelations?
I'm ready. Bring it on.
I bet you don't get that from your 5 min sound bites hey America?

In regaurds to the beginning of this post. If it got covered already I'm sorry. The UN will not move on Sudan. Sudan is heavily influenced by China. If anybody moves or has moved, it is china. That's why we didn't get in there mess.

BorderC, stop trying to make stuff up and learn to read. Not once did I say the Palestinians do not have legit beef with Israel. Hell, the US has a legit beef with Mexicos lopsided immigration policies and willful negligence in controlling the mutual border, but do you see the US lobbing missiles across the Rio Grande? The fact that Nix in particular has failed to condem Hamas and continues to spout his bullshit against Bush shows what a hypocrite he really is. Or maybe not a hypocrite but blind, unthinking, hateful person.

BOTH sides have legitimate grievance. In 2005, ISRAEL made the move that finally gave them the moral high ground by unilaterally removing troops and settlers from Gaza. The single biggest grievance of the Palestinians was that they wanted a self-governing homeland, just like the jews wanted the one they now have in Israel. At what point is enough enough? You talk about displaced Palestinians, the Israels talk about rockets being fired at them. The list goes on and on. BOTH sides have beefs. BOTH sides has problems. Israel finally said fine, enough is enough. We will forgive all you did to us, please forgive all we did to you and lets live in peace. They said that and backed it up with action.

Hamas just couldn't let it go. Still Israel sat there hoping that the prospect of having their own government at last would prompt the Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank to suppress the extremist terrorists among them. But not, not only do they do nothing, they put these terrorist into power in Gaza. Now its time for those Palestinians to receive the just consequences of their failure to take responsibility for themselves. I say again, I feel sad for them, but I do not feel sorry for them. Not one bit and neither should you.

You know, I just don't feel the need to defend myself when you compare the Israeli-Palestinian conflict with American-Mexican relations.

I think you've done a splendid job of proving my point about American ignorance. Less typing for me!

BC

Archangel.
What Bull Shite? I heard Bush himself say that he was on a crusade.
So Arch. Say you invite me and my family to live in your house as I have no where else to go, then after a while I bring in my friends and their families, to the point where there is just not enough room for all of us to live there. So I throw you out to go and live in the shed, where I control every aspect of your life. The water, electric, food, medical supplies, visitors. Then when you demand your house back I lock the shed door and turn off the water and electric and stop supplies of food and medicine. Now that your children are cold, hungry and ill do you let them die or do you try and resist?

Remember, Israel supported Hamas to divide the Palestinians and weaken Fata. This gave the Palestinains 2 parties to voted for. Either a government that has bowed down to the occupation or one who will resist the occupation. Which one would you choose?
What's the difference between the Palestinian resistance to occupation and the French resistance to occupation?

COAL!!!

You are a liar Nix. Israel did not support Hamas. Ever. I guess you have the same delusion as BorderC about Americans ignorance. I don't give a damn about your politics, but do not spout your politically driven lies and not expect to get called.

Your analogy is so flawed its ridiculous. Yes, many of things have happened. Yes, Israel has done some bad things. The Palestinians have done some bad things. The Arabs have done some bad things. The point is, would you rather everyone continue to do bad things, continue to hold grudges, or say you know what, yes, we are all worse off but instead of continuing fighting and continuing to lose on both sides, take the loses and instead start rebuilding. This worked pretty well when the Arabs and Israelis did so. Israel has offered that same chance to the Palestinians and that chance was rejected by the Palestinians.

As for BorderC, general ignorance by Americans does not mean all Americans are ignorant of what gone on in the Middle East. Again you failed to read or understand what I said. For one, I never claimed anything you said was false. Yes, Palestinians have had bad things happen to them because of the post WWII partitioning, but so did the jews. Since its formation, Israel has had all sort of problems because of the Palestinians and Arabs. The point you seemed to miss is that BOTH side have grievances. BOTH sides have hurt the other. The Israelis were finally willing to concede this, cut their loses, and try to live in peace with the Palestinians. As always, actions speak louder than words, and Israels actions in 2005 spoke very loud indeed. Instead of listening, however, Hamas decided it was actually more important to continue to attack Israel instead of trying to live in peace. The Palestinians have allowed this to happen.

Oh, and you have no need to defend yourself as my comparing disputes between US and Mexico to Israeli-Palestinian problems wasn't exactly aimed at you, sorry to burst your little ego bubble there BorderC. It was aimed at those who may read this to illustrate how civilized countries - USA, Mexico, and Israel - try to resolve disputes as opposed to Hamas, who feel the need to shoot rockets and kill people.

And finally, Nix, I certainly do expect Hamas to fight Israeli forces occupying Gaza. I never said they should not resist. I might think they are stupid to do so. I definitely think they are culpable for anything that the Israelis can do to them as THEY are the ones who have continued to fire rockets into Israel for no valid reason. The difference between French resistance and Hamas resistance is that the circumstances that resulted in the need for either resistance are completely different. Germany was wrong to invade France in WWII (which is what I think you refer). Israel is justified in its current occupation of Gaza. Also, Germany wanted to control and subjugate France, basically anexing it as more German territory. Israel does not want that with Gaza. They want to destroy the ability of Hamas to continue firing rockets. So, in a way, I guess I could condemn Hamas for its method of resistance. Assuming the goal of that resistance is to get the Israelis to leave and not come back, then they are pretty stupid. The simplest way to get the Israelis to leave and not come back is NOT FIRE ROCKETS AT ISRAEL. So simple a caveman could do it.

Two threads of vitriol, both started by the same individual.....Does that say anything of nix, or the rest of us?

Archangel, you win.

I don't really feel like reading your garbage anymore so I can't respond to it.

Congratulations.

BC

Archangel. Goes to show how much you know, next you will be telling me that the USA did'nt support the Taliban. I also did'nt say anything about Gaza. I'm talking about the occupied land.

I'm sorry FarmerBob if I'm putting a downer on things. I know you have the T shirt, but theres alot of people out there who think life is as sweet as roses. And that if they don't look at the bad things that are happening in life then the bad things don't exist.
The only thing I hate is bad things. I know it's not easy working out what is bad and what is good, but atleast I'm trying.

Indeed, you are nix. Keep it up. Honest intellectual examination is its own reward. ;)

Thats ok BorderC. I am not writing for you but for those who might read your misrepresentations and mischaracterizations and take them as gospel. Its really not that hard for most people to read and understand what I have written. I guess that just makes you an idiot.

And oh, that's right Nix. All of Israeli territory is occupied land. Sorry, I forgot that your intellectual negligence in pursuit of your politics knows no bounds.

For those reading, basically Nix says that any territory Israel currently controls is occupied territory. Not true, but, again, so what.

The UN (remember your favorite US hating world agency there Nix?) has recognized specific territory as Israel. You don't agree. That's fine, you don't have to. But IT DOESN'T MATTER! The point that you willfully fail to acknowledge is that if Israel were allowed to live in peace within that UN recognized territory and the Palestinians were allowed to live in Gaza and the West Bank, there would be no conflict between Israel and the Palestinians in the middle east! The other point you willfully fail to acknowledge is that Israel has tried to do just that, live peacefully on that aforementioned UN recognized territory. By both words and deeds they have shown their desire for peace. I do not know or care if this solution is fair or just and again, it no longer matters. There has been so much death and violence and loss that it doesn't matter any more what is a fair or just solution. It doesn't matter what or who started the fight. It doesn't matter who did what to whom. There is a solution to the situation and one side will not accept it, the Palestinians. It is painfully obvious that Hamas and the Palestinians in Gaza are lying. They say the want peace. They say they want Israel out of Gaza and yet they will not take the one single step that will accomplish this stated goal, NOT SHOOTING ROCKETS AT ISRAEL.

When someone states they want to achieve a goal, but then fails to take the action that will result in achieving that goal, they must be lying. Ergo, the Palestinians and Hamas are lying. Israel has backed its words with deeds. Until 2005, that was not always true. By matching words with deeds Israel has finally become righteous.

Archangel1, why are you not on the Jerusalem thread where this is being debated ad nauseum?

There is a militant Palestinean apologist there, whom i'm sure would appreciate your ministrations.

Arch, you said 'The UN has recognized specific territory as Israel.'

Again, where did I comment about the legal territories of Israel? I'm talking about the illegal occupied territories. You know, territory that the UN has not recognized as specific territory of Israel. The OCCUPIED Territory.

Ok, what territories then? Specifically what one that the Palestinians claim as theirs that Israel, until a few days ago, occupied? Gaza? The West Bank? Tell me. Israel occupies neither, or didn't until just recently. Again, TO STOP ROCKET ATTACKS. Apparently you keep missing that little tidbit. The Palestinian resistance wants Israel to leave Gaza. Ok, I have a sure fire plan for them to succeed. STOP FIRING ROCKETS. I have a sure fire plan to keep Israel forces from ever again entering Gaza or the West Bank. STOP ATTACKING ISRAEL. Its amazing how doing something as simple as well, doing nothing, can achieve so much. And yet, Nix thinks this is a bad idea. The Palestinians are to stupid to do, well, nothing. It is mind boggling.

And yes FB, I have seen that thread. The apologist there is to stupid to even acknowledge that Gaza has both a border with Egypt and actual sea ports. Why bother.

Maybe you would do nothing if your people were being slaughtered in the hundreds, your land stolen and your forced to live in a concentration camp. I would do whatever I could for revenge you limp dick peice of shit.

Not sure if you were talking about the Israelis or the Palestinians there G. Or even to me or to Nix to to whomever. Insults go much farther if you actually mention the target. Since you have not, I am guessing that is a rhetorical statement and you must be referring to yourself. It is indeed nice seeing someone willing to announce his own shortcomings to the world. Not sure what I can recommend for you being a piece of shit. As for the other, I am sure you get at least 1 or 2 Viagra spam emails every week. Use one.