Population now cost 6 GCs?!!?!

This is too much... too much...

Whats the big deal. I used to pay 6-7GC when it was 460B per coin. Personally i think Pop should be 10GC per million. 1M pop should cost around 5T per, your econ only to, you should be able to bump out that kinda cash no prob.

If they going to charge us a stupid welfare reduction for selling i should get my moneys worth

Yeah, population costs like nothing. Stop whining.

ha... you're right... we just popped with a 20% reduction in profits.... we're about to get popped with another 10% on the 17th... they refuse to consider a reduction in the cost of government not associated with country purchases... and they just upped the cost of population (the only real way to build your country) 20%... I really have no damn idea why I'm not jumping out my seat in joy.

Just because gold coin value is down doesn't mean you have to go around jacking up the GC prices. ALL of the SC$ is down and harder to get now with profits being slashed everywhere. I can't even get my corps to increase enough in value to IPO them.

Whatever man. Do what you do GM's. Sidestep, skirt around it and stick it to us.

Hey Super, I have pop you can buy for 10GC/M. How many do you want?

Yeah if you are raising the price of everything based on GC going down it kind of nullifies the reduction in GC. It also lends ear to the argument that all this currency manipulation and market tanking have nothing to do with making things cheaper but rather to use these updates as an excuse for all our compounded losses.

If we are going in circles here with lowering GC then raising the price of everything to offset the changes, the only thing left to conclude is that this is just siphoning cash out of my countries and CEOS as we suffer through the seemingly endless small "corrections".

I don't know if any of you realize it but this what my account assets look like now. What about yours are you willing to share. I'd like to see how your account values in GC are growing or losing.

My Account Worth in GC.

Worth Noting: Disregard the Large drop I just sold 2 CEO's. But look at the slope and the rate of decrease. The last few updates have my account shrinking, not growing as is the recent common claim made by GMs as of late when we bring up Government costs or any other issue related to loses.

Population is the most important asset in simcountry and the base for making a lot of money.
Check some countries with 300M population and see their results.
6 GC is far too low but it is hard to make changes. everybody starts shouting.

Innanna,
a nice graph but it does not go far enough. where was it a year ago?
10.000 gold coins or less. Now it is all the way down to 39.000?
The total game value in gold coins went up from 3.5M to 12M+ in a single year.

Inanna and some other very wealthy players had the biggest advantage. Showing a declining graph of the last 6 days is not exactly a truthful presentation of the facts.

You certainly have your work cut out for you hey Andy

Andy, have you bumped your head?

<!-Quote-!>Quote:

Showing a declining graph of the last 6 days is not exactly a truthful presentation of the facts.<!-/Quote-!>

See Andy, I like how you try to make seem as if I am doing something wrong or juking the stats to support my statement.

But...

1. That is how far back you allow us to see. I do not control that, you all do.

2. The facts of this present themselves. The graph supplied by you has data recorded and eclipsed by you. I cannot change the values presented in the graph.

3. I actually did try to keep on topic and not let anyone become misled by the reflection of my CEO's being sold.

I actually said "Disregard the Large drop I just sold 2 CEO's....

But look at the slope and the rate of decrease.}

I only presented the graph you supply. It is kind of insulting when you try to accuse me of being dishonest when I have absolutely no means of doing that. I didn't base any statement I made here on any of my personal feelings or anything that we can't see.

Your graph shows my assets on a steady decline 6 times in a day. I have not done anything different really other than tinker with some settings that should not have produced that result.

But since I'm crazy, or dishonest as you say; I will answer a few of your questions as best I can.

A year ago we did not have this Account Value present. Even if we did, GC was much higher then by at least a factor of 4. You can do that math and quickly realize that point is completely moot. I know how intelligent you must be to run a game like this.

The real point on this graph I am concerned with is this.

Less than or around maybe 2 - 4 weeks ago, my account value was somewhere between 50,000 and 60,000 gc. I want to say 56,000 but I wouldn't be totally sure.

You keep referencing a year ago, but this has no place in my graph or my point.

My issue is that

1. while disregarding the drop due to the sale of my CEO's my account value has slipped 10,000 gc or more in the last few weeks.

2. Whats more is that if we look at the graph we can see that the decline is sustained and has very little to do with me or my intervention in my account and more to do with the last two updates.

3. If we average around 5,000 coins for the 2 ceos I purchased and subtract 10,000 GC to correct the numbers, my account dropped down say 48,000 coins to 39,000 in about the last two weeks max time frame. This would amount to just under %20. That is pretty steep in such a small window of time. The decline is continuing as we speak. So the final decline is not settled and the continuation projects an even larger loss percentage if and when the decline ends.

4. Despite this drop off, what really concerns me is that I am still losing value at a steady and sustained pace as you can see reflected in my graph.

If you say the graph is not showing enough data, and I should not mention any decline due to where you all placed the cut-off, please show us the value for the last 30 days and please make it default so that everyone can track their asset losses or gains more accurately.

I ask this because I agree with you. The graph reflecting the last few days is not adequate enough for us to make informed decisions regarding our account value. A longer time frame will allow us to see the bigger picture and possibly not be swayed by such a distorted and very short term view of our assets.

Most important of all, I was not trying to mislead anyone. I am only working with the data you provide for us to see. I beg you to produce my graph for the last 30 days so we can see how accurate or not, the few days are, and hopefully you all will come to the decision to provide us with a broader set of data to allow us to see things your way.

Thank in Advance Andy.

Maybe I did bump my head when I read your previous comment on the declining values. I fainted.

I did not want to start any discussion on the huge increase in the value of assets in the game. I was surprised that you, as one of the main beneficiaries, started it.

Gold coins are now 80B down from 4.7T very long time ago and 450B more recently.
the values of corporations always fluctuated with the profitability of corporations independent of that exchange rate.
The reduction long term is the result of the rate change but not percentage point by percentage point.
At some time the rate declined and corporate values increased and at other times, like recently, corporate values caught up with the rates.

we are not turning the volume. There are many parameters in this game and this is what makes it what it is. A game with 6 parameters is easier. this one has 6.000. maybe much too complex.

Long term, corporate values do follow the exchange rates. The increase in assets value, game wide, means in fact that the declines did not follow the exchange rate to the full and this is indeed true and was our intention. we wanted to increase the value of assets in the game.

I personally followed account values during that period to make sure that the transition is gradual and orderly and that players do not loose their assets they worked hard for or paid for.

It did not happen. The transition was in all cases a factor that increased the value.

Without diverting from the main distortion you continue feeding an ignorant populace.

Explain how selling the the bulk of my coins when they were 400-600B a pop for !1! Gold Coin was some benefit or benefit or how I was a beneficiary when you tanked the GC price soon after all the way down to <100 Billion each? I had 1.4 Quadrillion in cash back then and sold way high. Actually by selling most of them before the decline, I was literally shooting myself in the foot.

You keep bringing the conversation to a place and point that was irrelevant to anything I originally posted here. I hope this example above demonstrates that the statement you are making is completely wrong and a distortion of fact at best. Now, this is getting nowhere fast, and is getting way off from the point of my original post.

Please.... without going off on a tangent about anything other than the point.

You made a statement that placed me in a bad light and I appeared to be acting in a dishonest fashion according to you by showing the graph with the limited information.

Please show the graph for the last 30 days, and I'll drop the entire point if I was being dishonest. Even though I know I was not, nor was it my intent to do so.

Just call me a liar if that is what you want to say. But you won't post the graph nor say it though because you know how far that is from the truth.

At this point there is no point in arguing about nothings from a year ago, your perception of some imaginary benefit of selling my coins 4 times less than I could have in the present day had anyone known this was how far you would tank the GC market. It's all in your head. I know you just suffered a dizzy spell and hit your head so I won't hold it against you.

Please show the complete data if you have a point contrary to my own please. No need to catch feelings. This doesn't work in a player to GM relationship.

My account value also dropped. https://www.simcountry.com/cgi-bin/cgi2nova?SN_ADDRESS=wwwPortal&SN_METHOD=uah_graph&miTable=uah&miKey=20020708072017002020&miColumn=uahAccountValueGC.
It was around 46,000 about 2 weeks ago.

Andy, in laymen terms are you saying that our account value has dropped because the value of GC has dropped? If so, then technically our account value is still the same.

I think the problem here is that we are getting away from the time frame mentioned. But if we should go far back 30 days will likely show the same trend, but a year ago changes the entire context of the conversation, and was not what I was intending to discuss.

I hope that clears this up.

30 days?
no, the last 30 days saw a correction.

you know what it was several months ago or a year.
you know that all the cash you had, many trillions, in the account, the countries and the corporations, increased its value in gold coins over the last year. Also all the products in stock increased in value, the army etc. The value of the account exploded.

I am not blaming you of this.
we pushed the rates down and made many people much richer and we do not complain.

My comment related to showing a decline in the value over the last 7 days. It is a wrong presentation of the facts.
check the assets in the history tables.

The total world assets as they show on the scroll bar on the portal page are now showing $1.14M. This used to be 320K.

The entire increase is due to the appreciation of the value of game money, even though the base value of countries went down from 50T to 24T.
(this is a decline by 26T * 23.000 = 600.000 T).

We know the math and I am sure every player in the top of the scores will confirm the huge increase in value of the accounts.

Why are talking about account values?

I'm not much bothered by the value of my account, I would rather have liquid assets with which I can do things, buy things, expand, do more in space, have a stronger military/defence, run 300m countries and so on and so on.

Recently, like Wendy and Keto, I see falling account assets, I wouldn't like to say about comparing it now to a year ago as obviously I have grown my account in that time so it would be impossible to say whether any increase was due to game mechanics or my growing. This must apply to any account of a year or more old (except maybe nix's lol) so I'm not sure how you see what you do see Andy.

Anyway, as my purchasing power is erased, so is my enjoyment of the game, rich fat capitalist that I am, so this is what I see as the fundamental issue with the direction you are going. Who wants high value accounts but no $$$ to do anything?

Still no graph.

Andy I still appreciate your effort though.

If GC is not rising at the same rate that the account assets are decreasing in the same time frame, the decline is outside of the correction from GC. They've been rather stable between 80-90B A far cry from what the graph says.

The increase/decrease is artificial as it is moved by whatever the par for GC is that pleases you. This decline goes far out of the influence of GC.

You are battling with the graph, not me. The slope is down, then the value is down. If GC has not Risen in value to the tune of 20ish% than this decline is unjustified and represents real loss. Not market fluctuation. Nothing really more to say.

This is the argument we have in America and in Europe. You have turned a stable SC dollar with a fixed value into a fiat currency by allowing the price of Gc that backs the SC dollar to float, influenced by none other than central banks(Andy). I guess we are getting closer to the real world. +2 for that.

But Greece, remember the mighty Greeks, they rioted when austerity measures went from reasonable to unreasonable.

You're dabbling in my pension. Now we've got problems.

See the problems of allowing people to earn loads of GC and sell them for real assets Andy? Now you're having them think they are entitled to that earnings and dont like it diminished.

I think the real important question is this. If you and us as players have gone through this extended era of decreasing GC why on earth are you attempting to offset those artificial decreases by raising the price of goods?

I mean what was the point then? It appears you wanted to decrease GC value but now you want to equate everything relative to what it used to be. Won't all this be a waste of time then? Why all this suffering and the slow and grueling pace of this progress to where you guys are satisfied?

And don't be fooled. Account Values have not increased in Value, This is hyperinflation is all you did by stepping in as a central bank does to weaken their currency so that the "internal economy(e.g. supply fairy)" could get a boost from exports, sim coins, goods, etc. traded to players.

In all reality no values went up at all. By killing the Gold Coin, the SC Dollar is suffering from hyper inflation. To hide the hyper inflation you changed the standard. We measured ourselves by GC per month at a fixed value. Now we measure hard GC assets and very little liquidity. As CC pointed out, no money itself to do anything.

This is a depression and the hyper inflation is out of control. The central banks are going crazy discussing and manipulating monetary policy. Unfortunately, there is nothing more to do because the ponzi effects are exposing themselves.

The Economy is contracting too much a. In comparing real world vs. sim The US and Eurpoe have dollars and Euros. In Sim, we have Gold Coins.

Now the market is over saturated with with GC. We've got piles and piles of GC that arent worth jack. Unless we relate them to another asset. Real world money. This is interesting. Both the US and Europe will both have to eventually realize the situation that is happening in sim with GC saturation.

In order to place a valuation on any goods, you have to find a new standard. For us, real value will be in real dollars.In the real world, they are now trading an internet currency, that is called the anti central bank currency called Bit-coins.

And I thought that kid on WG was crazy. He's screaming about this super collapse, but really it has already happened. The central banks real and in sim, are doing a great job of letting us down softly.

Soon, it will be like how it was in the great Depression in Germany where on Payday, the wives of working husbands waited outside the factories with wheel barrows in order to flock to the market as soon as possible because the money was losing value so fast by the time they got to market it wasn't worth what it was just minutes before they arrived from the factories. This is what happened on the slide down to 84B per GC.

Interesting to these economic principles played out in the real and virtual worlds.

The New Currency will be the Amero. Soon all of Europe and the US, most likely Asia too, will begin using the Amero as the Petro Dollar and it will lead the way into the future as the worlds new reserve currency. Don't think it is true, better try google, America is already financing Debt in the form of Amero's as the Note for the Treasuries and Securities they hold as collateral for a return on financing our debt. The Amero will possibly stamp out all other minor currencies, except, bit coins of course.

Now what I want to know is, how many Amero's will it take to extend membership in Simcountry. And will you accept the equivalent in Bit Coins. At least we have something real behind the value of that currency, instead of floating the Amero against who knows what.

Ah, better tip. The game can turn their Euro's and Dollars into Bit coin to protect against inflation. Awesome. I would like %5 of your company for that finders fee. Lol.

And to be really honest, CC this has absolutely nothing to do with the Sale of any asset gained in Sim for real money. You are the only person to consistently stamp that comment into every discussion of country profitability or asset loss as the source of the problem. This is not anywhere near reality or the truth.

The two are separate discussions.

You don't sell for coins. So why are you crying about profit or cash loss?

If they were to grant your wish, and float more cash, you'll turn it into the game, your choice. My choice is to help a player get ahead and buy some GC at a discount that they obviously need. But to state that as the cause for the discussion like I am greedy or something is pretty funny of you, for the 3rd time is it now. You just said you were some fat greedy capitalist, are we contradicting ourselves to suit the hour? Or were you really a capitalist, or just saying that because it sounded good?

The only relation between cash to buy GC to sell, and Cash to buy weapons to fund your wars is, that they are a matter of choice. Both are a result of the same source. Profitability. The discussion here is not about profitability, it is about account assets. I raise the coins I sell almost independently of what the account reflects. the difference at any given time is 1-2K coins. Not much on an account that used to read 50,60Kgc just two weeks ago.actually that represents less than 5 percent absent the recent decline.

Andy
"Maybe I did bump my head when I read your previous comment on the declining values. I fainted."

Perhaps you can explain what you mean. You fainted by hearing this? Does the truth hurt that much?

Wendy is trying to point something out and you go out of your way, literally, to discredit her information. You show me what countries have not decreased in profit by a significant amount, What player's accounts have not shrunk, what ceo's have not lost Trillions and trillions of SC$ and I will do the fainting.

I was not joking in another post when I said I can not even get my corps to increase enough in value to IPO them. That is your doing! Not ours. YOU are doing this to the game and no matter what argument we present to you about the damage you are causing you continue to try to justify your actions by so much as trying to discredit valued players findings and information to suit your own Game Justifying argument.

You have gigantic account players loosing money, you have big players loosing money, you have medium players loosing money, you have casual players loosing money, you have part time players loosing money. And much more then you are saying we are loosing.

Please explain to me how, in a decreasing SC$ and profit environment you have decided to increase the cost of things paid by GC? What math classes are they teaching in Europe these days? If your money and profit are decreasing in game, then why would you raise Gold coin items cost when everything is devaluing right along with the GC value? I don't get it? Seriously, please explain your basis here. I wish to debate you. We have math classed in America as well.

Yes I do. You refuse to listen that the SIm economy has bottomed out more then you ever thought or care to admit. Stop looking at and quoting 300 million population countries please and start paying attention to the rest of us who far outnumber those gigantic player accounts.

I think we all get what you GM's WANT to have happen with shrinking numbers and you are well on your way. That is not an issue actually and I think we all support you in this. It's the shrinking players accounts that's alarming, the shrinking player base and the overall outcry from your players that should at least have you TRY to slow down a bit. Ceo's are getting hammered hard. Our corps are NOT thriving or doing well at all. Country profits have not started recovering. And yet you push right on ahead with a very very premature raising of GC cost items. Have you heard of letting the dust clear first? How about letting us pull the gm knives out of our backs and wallets first.

do we want to decrease the value in gold coins?
I just said that the value in gold coins went up by a factor of three to four and that it was our intention.

what price is going up? all goods are now half the price they were before, including all weapons and ammo.
Oops, population went up by one gold coin. The real issue with the population price is that there is no market and supply is unlimited.
It should be limited to 50 millions per week or so.
As to all other goods, the capitalists among us can purchase much more for their money, not less.

I do not think we get anywhere with this.
The argumentation is not based on what really happened.

we will run this procedure through and in a couple of weeks, or months, when the dust settles, everyone will get used to smaller numbers and will juggle billions instead of trillions.

The problem with games without a periodic total reset, is that changes are a problem.
A total reset may probably offer a solution.

Everyone starts at the same level and number are whatever they are set to be after each reset.
what about that? It was suggested by many players before and was never taken seriously.

2nd time I believe.

Yeah, I'ld put it into the game, hell, its a game, thats what the game assets should be for, I would have thought anyway. My point was and is that by making it so hard to have cash to do stuff in game but relatively easier to get GC, what are most people going to do? Get GC and try to liquidate them. No where have I stated is it the source of any problem, I have predicted it as an outcome.

Not selling GC for cash and not having $SC are the two seperate discussions, whatever anyone does with their GC is ok with me as I stated before.

Greed was not my accusation, thats your conspiracy predeliction showing. You were the one who said something about having your pension messed with.

Tell ya what, hows about you buy 1000GC off of me for 400B each then we can both be happy waddaya say?

I couldn't type a response I was laughing so hard hard at "oops... population went up 1 GC."


I knew 5 0 6 posts ago that this was going nowhere. But my post wasn't really directed at you Andy. I was asking players to share what their account graphs looked like because I wanted to see if it was isolated to me or if this was across the board. Which if true, would indicate I am not doing it, and I am pretty much helpless to stop it, so I can stop pulling my hair out trying to stop it with my best efforts. Which ain't much to begin with. I hate thinking so much sometimes I log in and log back out becuase I'm tired of fixing stuff almost daily that won't get level. Like my health index GAAAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!

I'm pretty sure for the second time, my post was pretty accurate CC. We don't have to agree. I'm just getting tired of it injected into a conversation when you say it like this...

<!-Quote-!>Quote:

See the problems of allowing people to earn loads of GC and sell them for real assets Andy? Now you're having them think they are entitled to that earnings and dont like it diminished. <!-/Quote-!>

I'm not blind and I have at least a minimal grade of comprehension to interpret what you literally meant when you said, how you said, and why you said it.

If this were an elementary school test, and we were doing that question that goes like this. In this group, which one doesn't belong.... Or which of these things are different? if we used that format on this conversation, aside from Andy trying to splinter the discussion 200 ways to avoid answering or posting the information he said I "juked", then without a doubt your comment is the oddball.

And it is the second time you have come from left field on a thread very similar to this and done the exact same thing.

Not picking on you, if you aren't on me. You didn't say I am being greedy, but the statement implies that at the very least. My 4 year old could have read between those lines.

Ta-ta.

And I thought we were trading countries? What's up with that? Don't tell me we fell out over this????