W3C - The War Game

This is a 47 mil pop country with no weapons purchasing. The only ups in the graph are cash transfers.

https://sim05.simcountry.com/cgi-bin/cgi2nova?SN_ADDRESS=wwwCountry&SN_METHOD=w3graph&miTable=cntrhist&miKey=535&miColumn=vCmainCash

Finance index 128

Im guessing you have large country stocks of ammo/supplies needed? So are you actually buying the maint ammo every month Josias?

https://sim05.simcountry.com/cgi-bin/cgi2nova?SN_ADDRESS=wwwCountry&SN_METHOD=w3graph&miTable=cntrhist&miKey=1030&miColumn=vCmainProfit

https://sim05.simcountry.com/cgi-bin/cgi2nova?SN_ADDRESS=wwwCountry&SN_METHOD=w3graph&miTable=cntrhist&miKey=1030&miColumn=vCTotalCostOfDefense

maybe that will help.

the country is amazing. but this is more of a distraction. i get, that not allot of people can do this. the point i was making was that it takes a certain level of pop, to maintain a "basic," defense. with min gars, (just enough for nuke d,) and good air support, a 50M country would have difficulty maintaining it.

https://sim05.simcountry.com/cgi-bin/cgi2nova?SN_ADDRESS=wwwCountry&SN_METHOD=w3graph&miTable=cntrhist&miKey=2055&miColumn=vCmainCash

but at those higher pop levels, and ofcourse higher econ. they can handle it. its just that the "level," of pop needed to support a legit defense is quite high, atleast 60M, but probably over 80M for most players.

so when you calculate what you need to defend yourself. add in the pop needed to go up to 80M, the roads, train tracks, water treatment, schools, hositals, cost of building new corps. and all the time to manage your country...

honestly, its allot of invest into one country. with allot of time. both in the doing of it, and start to finish. not allot of players are gonna really want to go to that level to defend themselves.

so we are getting another improvement to defense. prior to this conversation, i was thinking that the new defense features where cool, but a bit excessive. but now. after hearing all these vets complain (myself included,) that we can't build and maintain, even basic defenses. its would sound like the new improved country response is the best solution. we can all have the defense we want, at an affordable rate.

i'm becoming more convinced, and excited about the improved defenses, actually. i can have the same level of security, i have now, (even better,) and be able to stash allot of the stuff i have active now!

I think you said what I was thinking Josias. The idea of stacks and stacks of defense is to be dated. The scale of wars is to be more limited which the community is not used to.

I'm not trying to stop or prevent war with worthless countries. If Burkina Faso wants to declare war on United Stats, let it. But in the game, as in reality, it should be a war that poses very little threat.

The rule was like this: if you have 100B in debt, you can't buy anything, no matter what you had in assets. Today, the rule isn't exactly like this, but, I think, takes net assets into consideration instead. Can I get specifics?

If it is still in place, I believe the game forbids that more than 90% of all MLMs and LLWs are employed as officers and soldiers respectively. Then it is a simple matter of tunning this down to something far more reasonable. You could even impose different limits for different categories of countries based on population or another measure.

When using C3s for the purpose of war, defence is hardly an issue. These are used to attack. In most cases, the defence we are mostly likely to find are federation air wings. And here I most point out, that the plans you have for federations would make C3 warring more effective. Carrying on, fortifications, however, buy war points and time for the C3 attacker. Time is even more important if you are facing multiple C3s slaves.

Every time I had to conquer one of these, I always thought if this was a C3, this would have ended a long time ago when I'm busting the forts.

With less forts these would be much easier to conquer.

Aries, yes, if you have 10-15 mobile defense units, can offer the same protection as dozens of garrisons. less units, less clicking, less an excersize of endurance. more fluid, and depending, more relaxed.

then consider the cost of those units, compared to a modern defense? and add to that, the ability to pick them up and move them where you need them. Independent of spending limits, and even across space. its what we are asking for.

it solves the cost problem of defense. the big problem is that it makes defense to easy to be unbeatable. and the GM aren't really offering a big enough carrot.

Is it what is wanted? A ready for action army available to defend or attack whenever wherever they are required? The whole individual country or even world concept is disappearing. We all end up as accounts. So which ever account has the biggest mobile army wins. You can send your mobile defenses to one place, but I can send enough mobile attack to attack you in 2 places...and so it spirals.

In the end, it just ends up like it is now really except there is no distinguishing between countries and worlds anymore. Might as well shut all worlds except FB and have everybody play there.

i agree crafty, actually. the point i made was that we want cheaper defensive. mobile units would seem to provide that. the feature of being able to move them, because they are mobile, has been advertised by the GM as a way to defend yourself with less hardware, because you can move them, ie they are mobile. lol

but yes, their is a level of build up with those, that is extreme. and not difficult. and true to sim country form, we will all build as many as we can. then no one will be able to do anything. which is not what we want.

i'd suggest a limit version. for instance, say 1 garrison, and say 3 ground units could respond, in addition to the normal target. those ground units could be mobile units, or regular defensive units, (not suggesting any changes to air d,) that way, it wouldn't be difficult to build a strong defense, but impossible to build an unbreakable one.

or even one garrison, and 2 ground units, from the player, and that can be matched by up to 1 mobile unit from fed mates. similar to air defense.

or even limited ranges, like 100KM for most the missile batts, and 35-50 for the light tanks and such. that'd allow the attacker the ability to gain access to the country, with out over whelming it. leading to "country resources," if you had to empty the ammo of all the units in a country, why not just take it? but if you can create your own military presence in the country, and attempt to move it toward the richer parts of the country... its interesting to see if that would be enough to make the war game viable, while lessening the effects of loosing.

also, as an aside point, when a country is declared upon. it should be allowed to make map adjustments

every one, should be able to earn advantages. the attackers should have the advantage of time, ie, they pick the time and place. but defenders should be given the opportunity to adjust their map.

Same old story everyone will have masses of mobile units and this will be an extra cost and the game will be making even more money.

What about the professional army to cut back on defence costs? I think since we have to pay gold coins for them, I don't think there should be a salary cost for them or an upkeep on weapons of which they're assigned to. Surely this would allow us to have an huge army without eating into our countries profits all the time or not whats the point of buying them if they're going to have no special functions or bonuses? they might as well not exist.

I know this is kinda beating a dead horse.. But the whole war levels thing is a bit of a joke anyway. I am at wl.3 on LU, and I can think of a good handful of vets that can dec me at any moment whom have much more military and experience than I do. One declared on me a month ago.

I am war level 6 on FB, so if we make war levels account wide, that will probably just put me within reach of even more big dogs.

Not that I care either way, I have been wiped of the map on FB a couple times years ago when I attempted to play this game. It never kept me from coming back. And now I am in a fed with 'big brothers' who have my back lol.


I guess to sum up what I am trying to say:

-War levels have very little to do with the actual capabilities of the player.

-War level restrictions on declarations are not keeping anybody safe that is not in war protection. (If anything, it actually helps the aggressor, who might be an experienced player at a low war level taking over a rookie player's empire, while being protected from being declared on by similarly experienced players in higher war levels).

In my opinion, war levels should be done away with.. Other than for c3 war purposes. I know that will never happen, so maybe we should just keep them the way they are. The more they get tampered with, the more inconvenient it seems to be.

So where are these pro soldiers? There are none on offer in DT. Do the GM not offer them for sale anymore? How do I make mobile units without the pro soldiers?

I know Crafty, the whole system with the professional officers and soldiers as well the mobile units is a complete mess and both need reforming seriously.

Of what you're also saying Kel is echoing of what i've said on my defence index levels idea page. I'm glad you agree with most of it.

<!-Quote-!>Quote:

2. Using a new acquired country to start a war

Using just conquered countries to start wars will be delayed to avoid riskless wars by countries without assets.
A new acquired country will be able to start a war two weeks after it was acquired.

This feature will be added to simcountry later this month.<!-/Quote-!>

Really? Is this your solution? Can it at least be attacked?

(Overall Defence Index level Quote)

'If you are a single country and have grown into a large empire with a number of countries, they should all be treated how the way you can share military resources in times of war at 100% in a federation without creating a federation. Since if a country in your empire ever got attacked they should all automatically be at war together. So basically your empire can act like a federation without creating a federation.'

This idea would put a player's entire empire assets at risk except for their secured main.

Well think about it in real life during WW2, obviously except for your secured main. When Great Britain went to war with Germany, the rest of the British Empire went to war with that country and it's other colonies too. The Japanese who were Germany's allies invaded Hong Kong, Singapore and Burma, which all three were british territories. They also attempted to invade India as well but failed, of which also that was another british territory.

So the thing i'm trying to say is, if one of your countries in your empire gets attacked. The rest of them should be at war too. It would make the game more realistic this way where you would have a lot to lose so be prepared for it.

u cant have it both ways james either war levels or not lol