Manipulation (Golden Rainbow)

Many people will say that c3 warring is not an ethical form of war.

However, it must be stated that it is an effective form of combat. Especially when players that have been around for long enough, fight wars, and somehow manage to have Cities and Capitals rebuild between the first and 5th of the month, no matter how many times you destroy them. They move and show no damage. Yet my ammo is used up, and weapons that may have been lost in destroying the target are lost. The War Index drops slightly, but this tactic, which should be against the rules or impossible to say the least, allows the cities to rebuild until the real update which refreshes the War Index. This is just one of countless things I have seen done during wars with certain players that should not be happening. This is exactly why I would never 'put anything on the line' becuase the game is too open and and subject to manipulation that is not available to every player.

The reason I state this example is becuase people that have played for a longer time than myself still don't know how it is being done either. Granted they may be prepared for it, and react to it in order to overcome their enemy, but it shouldn't be happening in the first place. It is common knowledge that a certain band of players will group up on a player they know to be capable of defeating them, this is a valid tactic. What is alarming is that when working within the way the game 'should' woprk, if all else fails I have seen things stoop to a low where people will manipulate the game however they know how, and rob a player of a just victory. This is not ethical and I hope it goes to show exactly why all this call out nonsense and whatnot is BS to the core, becuase most of these warlords use these 'cheats' and I am most certain this is what we can attribute most of their victories to.

I am offended that w3c has not stepped in to stop this kind of manipulation and level the playing field. I have done many things and w3c has answered the cries of many veteran players who felt disenfranchised by my own tactics I used to employ. Sneak Attacks, Type of weapons, no war protections after sneak attacks. Parameters were changed. Debt Bombs, Taking c3s and loading them with enough weapons and ammo to cause my enemies a headache and force them to conquer said c3 and eat the debt worth 10 trillion dollars. Parameters concerning this debt and c3s or any country were changed.

I have had this problem and reported this more than once on the forum, not in direct email though, I suspect w3c reads the forums once in a while. This and other 'weird happenings' as I call them, have happened, Against

Aqua Rainbow Undefended targets producing losses with no air defense, federated or country; non nukeable military bases and targets without garrisons. Garrisons becoming available well after war was started(several game months later) without a single supply unit in the country. Explanation: Barney: I think it is because that country is operating under the old war engine.

Zeba and Aqua Rainbow targets refresh on the 5th of the month on GR. No explanation

DarthDizzy/Crossdale. Targets Refreshed four times and moved in the span of 2 game days on GR. He recently accomplished a similar feat against Josias on LU. No. Explanation

KevinHkj/ Apprentice Alliance (Dizzy's fed) Targets refreshed several times over and over again. Capital Cites refreshed and moved between the first and Fifth of the month. Strat Bases refreshed several different times during the month after I destroyed them on the 22nd. Fleets and weapons become available at random times during the month. Although my fleet has been damged going on 3 months now from only a single attack, before it was even available for me to use!? WTH? Now KEvin and Dizzy have been the only two players to do this stuff in the past real month, but Dizzy isn't setting them up or training them? I'm sure you can follow. They are a new federation headed by a 14 year old... right.

Can we get some disclosure about how or why this happens, and then add some closure to the matter by managing to shut these occurrences down so that the war game can be played the way it is supposed to. I certainly can step up, my unethical wars that are well within how the war engine is supposed to work.

Just another note, for weeks now, the second half of any game month is virtually non-existent. Making this refresh thing very effective. Skips from the twentieth of the month to the first of the next month.

This is a whole lot of questions for someone who is supposedly leaving the game...

As far as the supposed happenings, I can't say I've experienced a single one and I have to say that I've probably fought more wars and taken more countries than almost anyone in the past 6 months. There are certainly differences in countries as far as paint and the war index and the Alarich war was completely bunked up by something which I will not state publicly but it was not a cheat...just a glitch if you will.

You didn't mention me or my fed in the above which was quite frankly surprising to me but I know you have made similar accusations against us and I can tell you without any doubt that I have no cheat which does such things...I'll put my account on it. Cities refresh all the time and I haven't just experienced it against certain countries/players but almost every one...the refresh does not all occur at once but is a process in which some cities disappear, some rebuild and some counties/towns replace cities and I can't say that I understand why that is an issue when taking a country. There is a simple formula, kill cap/cities/corps/forts and then paint and it's done, I've experienced 1 or 2 times where that did not work and in fact I was waiting for the cities to refresh so I could get the necessary casualties to finish off the country...so I wouldn't see how someone refreshing their cities would be a negative.

Although this will sound like smack talk it's not how it is intended and I will say it only because I think it's a great anecdote along these lines. When I was playing Counter-Strike alot (ALOT) I started out thinking that all kinds of players were cheating...didn't take much just something odd here or there. I'd make accusations and we'd flame the hell out of whoever it was and I would be SOOOO sure they were cheating. Then as I got good at the game and was playing with some of the top tier players in the world I would constantly get accused of cheating when I played in public servers...would get kicked out all the time for using cheats by admins...but I wasn't and neither were most of the players that I had originally accused. Sure there were cheaters here and there, but when you aren't very good it seems like everyone is cheating...especially those who are more skilled than you. I even had admin in a server that one of the top European players in the world came into under an assumed name...I kicked him for cheating...then he came back in and I verified his ID...damn did I feel stupid.

[End non smack talk]

Anyway, there is no way of knowing if these players are cheating for sure but I can tell you that it is quite unlikely and you are most likely experiencing what all of us experience with the war engine or the game in general at some point...random sh*t happens. I can tell you this much though, just as in any other game in this one typically the best person/team wins ultimately and hiding behind accused cheats to justify your horrible practice of terrorizing people with c3's while you comfortably hide your assets in WP is bullsh*t. Fighting a fight with real assets at risk creates an environment of fun and fairness, what you do creates an environment of hatred, tension and fun for only one side...you. Which may be fine in your mind but the truth is that you are robbing yourself of really learning to play this game. You can justify it all you want, come back with your *fartz* or skirts or whatever other idiotic thing you come up with, but deep down you know I'm right...the real reason you don't fight with assets on the line is because you know you'll lose. Also, because you have to try to grab the spotlight so much and are too impatient to do it by earning it you must instead say incendiary and stupid things and piss off as many people as possible so you can play your 'look at me, look at me' 5 year old game so that you can feel important. Then you can turn around and say everyone is against you so you have no choice but to fight with c3's...but that is your own fault and the truth is you won't take a one on one fight for assets anyway.

If you really want to claim that it is because of cheats I'd be more than happy to do a screen recording for you if you're willing to come out of wp and have a fair fight...I'll record it all...kill two birds with one stone, 1. I get to destroy you again. 2. I get to prove you wrong again. Offer stands...you come out of wp, one on one, you take one of my countries before I take all of yours and I'll give you my empire. But once again, we all know you won't take it but I feel the need to make it again to prove that you are really just spewing BS here to try to make yourself feel better about your lack of ability and unstable personality that landed you in the position of having everyone out to destroy you.

Lol I'd take that bet too :P

Give me ur stuff again windy!

Back to an official response. I hope this is something the gamemasters take very seriously. I have not had a real battle with you WB to where you would have a need to use such 'skills'.

But to those who I have, Aqua Rainbow, Dizzy, Zeba, and now Kevin, I would like the issue addressed in a proper manner. You just hold your little horses WB, when things are fixed for sure, you will certainly get all the fight you think you want.

TBH this is part of the reason I am contemplating not renewing. I'm more than happy to continue business as usual and prosper in my usual manner.

There is no 'random shit happens. The game is set to perform in the way it is intended to perform. Glitches happen frequently but that is to be expected, as is the norm, but this isn't random, it is deliberate and has been used ne more than one occasion by specific players, and more than once by the 'same player'.

So I'll leave the 'BS callouts' for another time and await an answer from the gamemaster.

If you don't know what you are talking about why comment.

"You didn't mention me or my fed in the above which was quite frankly surprising to me but I know you have made similar accusations against us" Try not repeat anything else dumb for more than a day, If you did it, I would have mentioned it. I don't whisper to players about WB and his fed. WTH am I supposed to be so afraid of you that I have to accuse you privately to other players? Gimmie a break you ain't ish, and basically I'd tell you, or anyone else for that matter, anything I want directly. Not behind your back.

HOW CAN YOU CALL ANY FORM OF FIGHTING A WAR WRONG IF IT IS WITHIN THE RULES.JUST BECAUSE IT DOESN'T SUIT YOUR TASTE DOESN'T MAKE IT WRONG.SOME PLAYERS MIGHT THINK YOUR STYLE OF FED GANG-BANGING FOR ASSETS IS WRONG BUT IT IS WITHIN THE RULES EVEN IF IT DOESN'T SUIT MY TASTE.
BIGG E

what wendy is referring to to, after destroying the cap, over half the cities, towns, and counties, and ALL the bases, probably around the 8th of the month, (i can't remember exactly) they ALL reappeared. in fact, their were more bases than we started with. and the WI was dropping at 1/5 the normal value for cities. later that player inferred he could do it more, and that it was a matter of timing. ie, something that he could repeat

i did still win the war. as this was not a silver bullet... at least in my case

Interesting.

lol

Keep on diluting yourself Wendy...make the idle threats 'You'll see...I'll get you...you'll see'. Heard that before from you and others who hide in wp, smack talking because they have nothing to lose...but you do lose ultimately because you'll pay for wp forever when instead you could save all of those GC's and maybe actually learn how to play the game if you could just be a respectable player who doesn't have to run their mouth at every sneeze.

As for Biggie...just because something is 'within the rules' doesn't mean that it is right. To take a very broad, dispicable and completely unrelated example...slavery. Within the rules at a time but clearly wrong. C3 warfare while hiding assets in WP is exploiting the rules not 'playing within them'. WP was intended as a method to allow players who would be away from their empires for extended amounts of time to protect their assets...not as a method to hide assets while wasting people's time with c3's. From the game itself:

"Protection against war makes sense when you go on holiday or when you are not available to play Simcountry for another reason. It is a disaster if you return to the game, only to find your country ruined.

You can also protect your country if you just don't feel like fighting for a moment. However, please note you can only protect your country for a limited time."

I think the intention of that statement is pretty clear...

Also, 'fed gang banging for assets'? Are you f*ckin kidding me? It's the fed you are currently in that is famous for the gang bang, not mine. When 3M took the last country they got from me I had 15 total decs from 10 different players on 1 country. The most I have ever fought with is 2 players plus myself against an active player...no more than that and in most cases I've fought solo or with just one other player as have EO, Keto, Serp and of course Wild. How many people did it take to take down your LU empire? 1, just me. Don't get me wrong, I really could care less about the gang bang at this point and in no way can you say that it is exploiting the rules of the game as hiding in wp does. The game encourages fed building and fed building is good for the game, it helps players learn how to play and how to fight.

Orbiter, I don't know what to tell you but the end of your statement is exactly my point, you won the war, if the player was cheating it really didn't make a difference. Don't get me wrong, the game can be frustrating as hell at times so I feel your pain, but ultimately you won which is what you can do when you actually KNOW HOW TO FIGHT unlike some people who have no fighting skills because they have been hiding in wp forever and can only hit the 'Launch Nuke' button.

SO IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, ITS GOT TO BE WRONG AND IF YOU DO LIKE IT ,IT MUST BE WRIGHT.I SEE HOW YOU ARE THINKING, BUT YOUR WRONG.
BIGG E

The cities aren't moving or being rebuilt before their time. They are being demoted to counties, and the counties are being promoted to cities. This is why it seems they were rebuilt and moved places.

Does this explain the capital as well? And the Bases? The Fleets? The Nuclear Defenses at "x is Undefended"? And four times this process occurs before the update on the 18th?

Seems a little incomplete. For lack of a better explanation I guess.

For the capital, yes, as well.

Different functions happens at different days of the month. Not all things happen at the same time.

Nuclear defenses never show up in reconnaissance reports. I'm guessing the player had deployed a garrison, but ran out of all other weapons or ammo except NDB. It has happened to me before.

I don't know what is the matter with bases and fleets.

No Biggie...I didn't say 'because I don't like it', I gave justification as to why it is a MANIPULATION of the rules that perverts the spirit of the game and posted facts directly from the game that show quite clearly what the spirit of WP is.

Laguna, that's exactly my thoughts, cities/cap being demoted/replaced by counties and towns. As for bases/fleets/forts, you can always purchase more and garrisons are always slightly weird, all kinds of odd things happen to them like cap/city garrisons being completely changed into town/county garrisons without the city being destroyed. Anyway, this all adds up to odd but mostly explainable things that happen and nothing to do with anyone cheating.

Sigh.... Once you actually start to understand the war engine and know it's capabilities it no longer becomes a 'cheat' it becomes common sense. Whiteboy obviously knows what he's talking about and I salute him becuase he has told you many times over and over what and how it happened, if you would just listen to him for once you will see ANYONE can do this. You just have to know when to 'wait' and 'attack' like WB said plain and clear in his earlier post.


sigh....

Ah, I already knew this information. I thought there were new, exciting "game-features" to take advantage of.

Ok, maybe what should be said, is that buying or transferring of population during a war, should not make your cities and cap reappear an indefinite number of times. For whatever reason this happens, I don't think w3c intended for any player to be able to buy their targets back with gc during a war, or transfer cities and cap back during a war. So I guess the question is, should this be allowed to happen? And the answer has to be no. It makes no sense that an avg player who wouldn't know this would be subject to a huge waste of ammo for little to no effect on a country. Contrary to DarthDizzy's assumption that buying pop should be 'part of the war engine and its capabilities'. That is ludicrous. Destroying and defending targets are part of the war engine, a technical glitch that allows you to make them reappear so many times in a few game days does not speak to the war engine and its' capabilities or your 'skills'. If you had 'skills' your cap and cities wouldn't be destroyed in the first place. Wouldn't you think? It speaks of the desperation of players who cannot use the war engine to win, and then default to 'tricks' to gain an advantage otherwise where they have been dominated.

Laguna wouldn't you think that the buying of population in the middle of a war to cause destroyed targets to reappear is a little over the top, and probably an unintended occurrence. Maybe this was underexploited in the past to where not many noticed or cared to report this. Honestly I get it, maybe once you can get it and bam you've got cities, but why so many times in a row? Lets say my war starts on the 24th of a month and I destroy all cities and cap, but on the 2nd of the month everything rebuilds, and I destroy them again, and then again every day until the 5th of the month, for a total of 4 times. Don't you think that is a gross waste of ammo? If you buy population, they should be added to targets on the 'real update day' and not make your targets reappear. Hopefully this change will be considered.

If not that is fine too, I'm just saying there have been changes for things in the past that seriously were the norm and probable secondary in nature to the WI itself. This seems to be a game mechanics issue, similar to the one where I guess they changed the amount of nfp, because they had an unfair advantage against air defense. I guess this was unintended consequence of the 1000 weapon attack limit, and they changed it to find balance. There needs to be a balance between a player buying population to keep his army or defenses intact and targets magically being rebuilt over and over.

I would still love to know how the bases fit into all this as well. I understand to many players this explanation sits well and satisfies most of you, but this pop center thing coupled with the bases and fleet issue, and the fact that they occur together in tandem, leads me to suspect that though this is what 'may' be occurring, it probable isn't. I won't be taking anything for Gold until w3c comments on any of this. Half an hypothesis, is not a satisfactory conclusion. Albeit a very good theory from a trusted source, that is LG, a glass half full or empty won't cut it. Players playing based on assumptions can be very distasteful and cause a lot of irrecoverable damage, so it would be best to go with a sure thing and a confirmation, that this 'theory' is indeed all that is at play here.

For someone who exploits war protection CONSTANTLY for her own gain I give your argument little to no credence. I'm sorry but you have lost all credibility when it comes to arguing anything about the war engine because you choose to exploit the game in a way that was completely unintended and you do it on a daily basis. PLUS speaking of wasting ammo, what do you think we have to do when you constantly dec with your crap c3's while hiding in war protection? Talk about a gross waste of ammo...all just so that you can feel important.

As far as purchasing population, I actually didn't know that, I just knew that cap/cities/bases refresh on different days and are part of different processes in which cap/cities get demoted to towns/counties or destroyed and then vice versa. Bases and forts can be repurchased and can show up on a different day then the normal base refresh date.

Are you saying that the same targets - not cities in general, since they can change class - rebuild more than once per game month?

Yes Exactly Laguna, the exact same targets, not new cities.

The Only Target that moves and changes name is the Cap.

WB no one cares if you give anything any credence. You place too much emphasis on 'You'.

WP is a feature that is used as it is provided and intended. How is WP an exploit? Everyone in your fed has used it as I have, and will continue in the future. I guess trying not to say anything else dumb for more than a day wasn't a good enough suggestion for you?

Very well then. Let's test this out on a controlled environment to make sure.

THE WP ISSUE ONLY HURTS ASSET RAIDERS BECAUSE IT MAKES WAR NOT AS PROFITABLE AND GIVES AVERAGE PLAYERS A WAY TO FIGHT WITHOUT LOSING EVERTHING.
BIGG E

"Secured mode gives one country full protection without any limitation.
If needed, a player can set war protection for any other country. This is for free for an average of 10% of the time and can be extended indefinitely by the use of war protection boosters."

Game News, #87


"Temporary war protection can be prolonged by the use of a war protection booster that will extend the protection for longer periods and can prevent war. It is currently possible to indefinitely prolong war protection but it will require several gold coins per (real) month."

Documentation - War, #43

Are you really that stupid? We tell you plain and simple how it's done and out of that equation your best answer is that someone added population?

If you don't even get that how in the world do you plan on ever fighting a proper war? No disrespect Wendy but tell me your joking? please?