Aristotle on Politics (Kebir Blue)

I agree that if you do not vote you really cant complain about any particular politician. On the other hand, if you do vote for them, are you not to 'some' degree responsible for what they do? Good or bad?

1. I'm not saying that fraud would start being legal. Nobody has the right to lie. When I say that there needs to be no regulation and the government needs to exist to provide a system of justice. I understand that the two ideas will sometimes conflict, but I'm also saying that seeking the least regulation conceivably possible is the best idea.
2. I'll admit that perhaps the time for the elimination of public schools may not be here yet. I'm not a radical that wants immediate change. I'm an incrementalist that will postpone certain changes until such time as they become feasible. I imagine this would be one of the last government programs to be eliminated, but inevitably, it can and should be eliminated.
4. I'm saying that the number of people dependent on government backed flood insurance doesn't make it right... I couldn't figure out the words the first time for some reason. As far as Katrina, failure to abide by contractual obligations should still be a crime.
5. I imagine farmers can pool their resources to build roads. As far as roads and the aforementioned canals, I'll admit that I don't have any well-thought out argument regarding large projects and only a generally view of the goal. The goal being that the project is only paid for by those that use it. If the government is needed as the prime organizer of such efforts (I'm doubtful, but I'll assume this is the case), government involvement is fine so long as the cost of the road is passed on to those that benefit from it and not to those that do not. This is the reason I oppose subsidies and the like; the cost is spread among everyone for the benefit of less than everyone.
6. My argument is essentially that the tendency of things like immigration to the developed world and outsourcing to the developing world by businesses will eventually lead to the movement of wealth to those business-friendly countries (although some are only business friendly by virtue of their poverty). The nation with the most business-friendly environment will eventually acquire the wealth... my intent being to make the point that people are migrating to the developed world essentially a non-point. People migrate here because the wealth is here, but things like subsidies, entitlements, etc. etc. are liable to lead to the wealth moving out. As an example, look at the American auto industry. It wasn't specifically government regulation that put it where it is, but the dangers of the people biting off more than the company could ultimately afford through unions. Social programs are predicated on previous success of the economic system and simultaneously damage competitiveness of the system.

Yes, of course I voted, and actually most of the people I know voted... maybe 3/4. Everyone I voted for lost, minus one. 2/3 of the measures I voted for also lost. *shrugs* I can only laugh at the idea that big money has all the power, the history of Marxism stands in contradiction. It's not money, but rather a small group of committed people that acquire power. In a democracy, this small group must cater to voters. All the money in the world can't buy you the heart and mind of a man. Principles, good or bad, will do that. Good principles will succeed, bad principles will fail. Too bad it takes several lifetimes for some principles to reveal themselves.

Capitalism Serves Corporations. Socialism Serves People. This is Why You've Been Told Socialism is a Bad Thing All Your Life

Scarlet--My church over the past few years has done work in underdeveloped countries. One of those countries is Kenya. We fly thousands of miles at great expense, travel roads that are impassable parts of the year to work in a children's AID's hospital, a private school and in the farming community around the area. The locals may have to walk a day to the clinic, children die not only from AIDs but also malaria that could be prevented by simply using a mosquito net at night. Children are lucky if they get a third grade education. In the past three years the community has suffered a drought that has created an epidemic of disease and malnutrition. The school can only accommodate a few students (those who are able to travel) and the water wells have gone dry. Last year we took it upon ourselves to feed the village for a year. But it's only a drop in the bucket. The Church in the hundreds of years that it has been in Africa has done little to improve the lives of native Africans. And the political climate in most African countries is either toxic or virtually non-existent. Capitalism cannot take root because of the lack of capital, infrastructure and stability. When the education level is so low and people are living on a dollar a day there aren't many markets available. In some countries in Africa we're seeing foreign investment taking hold, so it will be interesting to see whether this results in real economic growth or just more explotation of resources and cheap labor.

Gov't is neither good or bad in of itself, just as capitalism is not inherently good or bad. It is we humans that determine whether we treat one another with dignity and concern and whether we act morally and ethically. In my years on this earth I have concluded that there are no easy solutions to the issues we human have created/face. In order to be a part of the solution there are at least three things we must do. 1. study the problem/issue;not just one side but several sides. 2. realize that humanity's problems have basically been created by us and that in order to solve those problems we have to work together and respect one another. 3. that we then need to put our faith/beliefs into action with others and be willing to change when we see we're wrong.

PH-Corporations and political systems are not inherently bad or good. Most American corporations are ethical in their dealings. Socialistic systems in theory have the greater good of all as a goal. But none of us can see the unintended consequences of our actions. We need the community to hold us all accountable for our actions and hear the many voices that make up that community.

Thanks to all who have contributed to this thread. Be a part of the conversation with respect and realism.
Grace and peace,

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Capitalism Serves Corporations. Socialism Serves People. This is Why You've Been Told Socialism is a Bad Thing All Your Life<!-/Quote-!>

I beg to differ with you PH. I would say that Capitalism serves people, and Socialism serves government leaders and the elite.

After humans stopped living in caves and became farmers, people have lived under oppressive government rule for most of human history. Kings owned the land and had control of all the wealth, and most people had no rights and just enough resources to survive. This system was maintained until several hundred years ago, when the idea that ordinary people should have rights including the right to property and the right to life. These ideas started to be recognized by governments in such documents as Magna Carta and our own Declaration of Independence. These freedoms enabled people to voluntarily exchange good and services. People or groups of people ( corporations ) own and control the means of production, and they trade their products and services in a free market which is governed by the laws of supply and demand instead of government fiat. This is the essence of capitalism. This new system created an explosion of economic growth and innovation that the world had never experienced. From 1800-1900, this system was in place in almost all of the current industrial powers in Europe and North America.

Starting in 1900 was the progressive era, which we are in currently. Progressives have gradually chipped away at our economic rights, and have rehashed the old system of state control into new terms such as Socialism, Marxism, or Communism. They promote these systems saying they will restore fairness, equality, or help the poor. The real aim here is more power for government leaders and protecting the big corporations owned by elite's from the competition that the free market allows. If Capitalism is eradicated, the masses of people are on the road back to serfdom.

Nick--your argument would lead us to believe that big gov't and big corporations collude with one another. Don't forget to add big labor in the mix. The question then is how do you dismantle the mess. One result of gov't intervention in the early 20th century was anti-trust legislation. Many of the provisions of anti-trust have been eliminated. In this last melt down, we've seen big business, through mergers and acquisition, gobble up other companies. The first thing they do is lay off workers. In some cases as much as 15% of the work force. Then, as in the case of Mark Hurd with HP, he raised his salary about 100million and then went over to Oracle. This happens over and over again, with big business contributing 100s of millions of dollars to political campaigns. Big labor, including gov't employee unions aren't much better. And who suffers? The little guy who may own his own shop/business and can't pay his employees more than $10. per hour. So, Nick, how do we break the hold that big money and big gov't has over us?

BTW, most big corporations today shouldn't be considered as US corporations. They're multinational and we have less control over them. So, don't complain when they outsource workers to India, etc. That's part of free markets.

You would beg to differ while we see a fractional amount of examples of Capitalism working for Government leaders and 'elites' while the masses suffer the failures of the system?

Do you wear glasses? Very few people benefit from capitalism. The world economic crash was a result the core value of Capitalism. Profit driven by greed. Many hard working people who believed in capitalism and would give your speech and ear a few years ago have been severely hurt by the greed of a few small players who scalped the markets, watched it all crumble, then walked away with almost no harm done to them. The greed of a few men, who completed millions of mortgage transactions to people they knew would eventually default, in their infinite greed led the world into the largest economic disaster of our times.

Meanwhile here are some fun facts for you Mr. Capitalist.

Here is Capitalism at work.

The global financial crisis, brewing for a while, really started to show its effects in the middle of 2007 and into 2008. Around the world stock markets have fallen, large financial institutions have collapsed or been bought out, and governments in even the wealthiest nations have had to come up with rescue packages to bail out their financial systems.

On the one hand many people are concerned that those responsible for the financial problems are the ones being bailed out, while on the other hand, a global financial meltdown will affect the livelihoods of almost everyone in an increasingly inter-connected world. The problem could have been avoided, if ideologues supporting the current economics models weren’t so vocal, influential and inconsiderate of others' viewpoints and concerns.

Because of the critical role banks play in the current market system, when the larger banks show signs of crisis, it is not just the wealthy that suffer, but potentially everyone. With a globalized system, a credit crunch can ripple through the entire (real) economy very quickly turning a global financial crisis into a global economic crisis.

For example, an entire banking system that lacks confidence in lending as it faces massive losses will try to shore up reserves and may reduce access to credit, or make it more difficult and expensive to obtain.

In the wider economy, this “credit crunch� and higher costs of borrowing will affect many sectors, leading to job cuts. People may find their mortgages harder to pay, or remortgaging could become expensive. For any recent home buyers, the value of their homes are likely to fall in value leaving them in negative equity. As people cut back on consumption to try and weather this economic storm, more businesses will struggle to survive leading to further further job losses.

As the above has played out, the situation has been bad enough that the International Labor Organization (ILO) has described this crisis as a global job crisis.

And so, many nations, whether wealthy and industrialized, or poor and developing, are sliding into recession if they are not already there.

While the media’s attention is on the global financial crisis (which predominantly affects the wealthy and middle classes), the effects of the global food crisis (which predominantly affects the poorer and working classes) seems to have fallen off the radar.


Some have been writing for many years that while the current economic ideology is flawed, it only needs minor tweaking to correct it and make it work for everyone; a more compassionate capitalism, but capitalism nonetheless.

What is hoped is that fruitful debate will increase in the mainstream. This will also attract ideologues of different shades, leading to both wider discussion but also more entrenched views. Those with power and money are less likely to agree to a radical change in economics where their power and influence are going to diminish, and will be able to lobby governments, produce compelling ads and do whatever it takes to maintain options that ensure they benefit.

And now a word from our sane sponsors:

Column: Capitalism a dead end for humanity.

Posted on27 October 2010.

By Dan Bullman

The Daily Campus, U. Connecticut via UWIRE

We are amidst an economic crisis that is two years-old. Unemployment, which is worst in black and Latino communities, is nearly 10 percent nationally. Working peoples’ homes continue to foreclose at record rates, raids and deportations of immigrant workers continue to escalate and poverty is on the rise. Today, one in seven Americans live below the poverty line. Half of the world’s population lives on less than $2.50 a day.

Not everyone is suffering, though. There is one sector of the population that has been doing just fine in this recession – the capitalist upper class. While the government hasn’t lifted a single finger to help out working people, it has given trillions of dollars to Wall Street bankers and other capitalists in the form of government bailouts and tax credits.

The war industry is also booming. More than half of our federal tax dollars go to funding the military. The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and Pakistan, which have already killed millions of people for the sake of corporate profits, rage on with no end in sight. This happens whether Democrats or Republicans are in office.

The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. This is capitalism, a system where war, racism, homophobia, exploitation and sexism are all acceptable to the people who profit from it. Under capitalism, the chief means of production (i.e. the banks, factories, businesses, etc.) are all privately owned and the economy is driven by the profit motive. Everything the capitalist ruling class does is for the sake of extending or protecting profits.

It doesn’t have to be this way. In this time of crisis we need to look past capitalism, a system that produces nothing but poverty and misery for a majority of the world, to a system that will meet everyone’s needs. It is my belief that socialism is the solution to the economic and political crisis we are currently in.

Socialism is a system in which the means of production are owned collectively by the working class. The economy is run by working class people according to a democratic plan aimed at meeting the needs of everyone. Society would be governed by workers through workplace councils. Elected representatives would be workers who would be accountable to their workplace constituency and subject to immediate recall if they did not represent the interests of their co-workers.

The former Soviet Union was not a socialist society. Neither are the Western European countries nor China. Barack Obama and all his reforms have nothing to do with socialism either. Socialism requires direct democratic control of the economy and society by working class people.

The Soviet Union initially had workers’ control of the government and the economy, but this was destroyed in the face of economic embargo, civil war and foreign military intervention. The bureaucracy that took control of government instilled a planned economy and near full employment, but in an undemocratic and non-collective fashion. Even so, the Soviet economy grew from one of the least developed in Europe to the second strongest economy in the world in only a few decades. One can only imagine how prosperous it could have been if workers were planning the economy collectively and democratically in the interests of the whole society instead of in the interests of the Soviet bureaucracy.

Capitalism has nothing left to offer humanity except poverty, wealth inequality and endless war. The only way to get out of this endless boom and bust cycle of capitalism and imperialism is to take control of industry out of the hands of individual capitalists and put it under the control of working people. Workers create all of the wealth in society, so they should be the ones who decide how it’s used. This is what socialism is all about.

Read more here: http://www.dailycampus.com/commentary/capitalism-a-dead-end-for-humanity-1.1726834

Copyright 2010 The Daily Campus


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Forgive me, but I don't need a lesson on Cavemen, the Ice Age, or anything else. I only need to look at the last decade to see there is more than something inherently flawed about the way our world is operating.

What is personally concerning to me, is that The World's Poorest and Working Class people are being stripped of some of the only remaining entitlements even you capitalists know Humans should never be deprived of. Social Security, Pensions, HealthCare.

I am afraid with the latest talks of balancing our budget, the things that are seriously being debated about SS and more are threatening to throw the US into the same boat as Europe with riots and protests, becuase I mean comon, you can't take everything away from good people and watch as these greedy scumbag mutha&^%&4s walk away with token fines and they systematically f^&%$d everyone good and not out of everything they have worked for and expected out of their lives. It's BS and it is coming. Scenes like that from Spain/Portugal, Greece and France are coming to the US too, all because of these greedy muddaf^@#$^rs.

I think you need to look past your own good graces with clean eyes, and be humble about what you have and realize what capitalism is costing everyone who doesn't have as much as you do, NICK.

PH- You make some good points. However, i'm not ready to throw out the baby with the bath water. SC is a socialistic system in action. it supposedly is for the good of the players but it results in a very lethargic and uninteresting system, which is still controlled by the gm.

i realize this isn't completely analygous but in a capitalistic society creativity and vibrancy tend to be more evident. And whether it's capitalism or socialism, etc. they're still systems created by humans. Not all corporations are evil and not all gov't actions are either. Doing away with one or the other won't necessarily make things better. We have gotten ourselves into the fix we're in now, mainly because of our greed and desire to have it all now, even though what we get only may cover the necessities. And that goes for both corps and gov't.

Most corporations are responsible. But we have to ask oursleves, what is their purpose. It's not just to amass more and more money or power. It's multi-faceted.
1.The shareholders--we hear that corps. are working for the benefit of shareholders, but my hundred shares of GE won't get my phone calls answered by the president. But my shares do count.
2. Labor--corps. create jobs and have responsibility to treat employees with respect and concern for health, safety, security, etc. But labor can't be the primary mover or you end up like GM.
3. Management--you need good management or the whole system fails. But some managers are only looking out for themselves and their cronies.
4. The community--a corporations franchise is linked to the community and they have a responsibility for helping the community to prosper and be safe.
5. Government--if it were not for the creation of a secure nation,banking system, and other infrastructure, corps could not exist.

Where corps go wrong is the balance between all these areas gets out of kilter. One or two dominates. And a power inbalance is created that makes the other functions suffer.

I know Parsifal, I just figured I'd throw a silly rant after what Nick got on.

I truly feel that Capitalism, applied in accordance with profit, but NOT greed is what most Capitalists think they are defending.

Profit, and the ability for anyone to go out, start a company and make money is not bad at all.

It is in fact good. But how many of Americans actually have a real opportunity to do that? Not many, and certainly not enough. I've listened to my husband tell his friends over and over, if you cannot find a job, you need to make your own, and become self employed in some way shape or form. This is what is good about Capitalism. What is bad is that there are some big money people that are really out to suck the markets dry and that will come at whatever cost, because GREED outweighs all consequence, especially when it doesn't affect those instigators.

Socialism, in the most extreme and cynical definition is bad, but in a simplistic form it maybe the only real hope of helping the masses that capitalism, and the pursuit of capitalism, will no doubt leave out to dry.

I think what should be happening here is a literal fusion, meaning we have to take what works from these two system of governing/society and meet somewhere in the middle and come up with something called "Common Sense"

I stand by my statement about the ripples in Europe coming to the USA. It is basically inevitable. I thought the Republicans would be the one to press all this cutting after the changing of the guard in Jan. But Gawds help us if Obama is the one to push this through his economic council. I can see the fallout now.

What is even more scary is that what happened in Europe is nothing to what will happen in the USA, and the response will be an eye-shocker for sure as well. If you think our government isn't prepared for the kind of scenes from Europe, I think there will be a lot of folks out there sadly mistaken. FEMA could not respond to hurricane Katrina because they aren't in the disaster relief business. FEMA is here to counter citizen uprising or any threat of major civil unrest. There is a reason that FEMA sent a General to handle Katrina after National Guard from L.A. was overwhelmed and the outpost in N.O. were trapped themselves.

FEMA is about crowd control, they went in, declared martial law, stripped everyone of their weapons among other things, and basically did a dry run of what a response to civil unrest and enforcing of marshal law will look like.

We need to come together and "Think" about what to do, moving the conversations FORWARD and abstain from the nonsense like "Socialism, Marxism, Communism" that only leads to arguing against a sea of die hard "feelings" for whatever POV we may have.

The only way to accomplish this is to move past the mechanisms that divide us and engage one another as one nation, undivided so we can all begin to see each others needs and concerns. Then can we listen to one another start leaving the old way of debating behind. We could argue about Capitalism being good or bad, it won't get us anywhere or solve any problems. We need to be able to think out of these boxes we have been trained to defend at the cost of actually listening to one another and never accomplishing anything. Leaving things to the joke of a government we have, and end up worse off than we started. Because now we have problems, and when the nonsense begins, we have problems and add no dialogue to try and solve anything. Leading to wasted time - time we don't have.

And if there is anything in this world that I detest with a true passion, is wastefulness. Especially that of time, the most invaluable resource other than life itself.

How much more time do we want to waste? Can we come up with any really really practical solutions to help out in the extreme near term? Can We?

We do absolutly nothing. Sheep to the slaughter.

We let Jesus whack 'em. Wine press of God's wrath baby! Nations destroyed in such a fasion that: "and they will know that I am the Lord".
good stuff -gotta love the REAL 'gamemaster'.

They're openly creating chimeras for crying out loud and that's mainstream news. That's splicing animal to animal, human to animal and animal to human DNA. Creating abominations.

They're getting whacked this time.

OH yeah and FEMA couldn't handle Katrina because FEMA didn't DO Katrina. That's how they respond when it's real, chaos, can't make decisions.

Swine Flu propaganda

Swine Flu truth. Take the time to watch these, they're good

Vaccine results

PH the problems that we have had during the past 10 years are a result of too much worldwide government debt, and excess government intervention in the markets. However, progressives always blame capitalism even though we have had a mixed economy ever since the 30's. I do agree that the European riots are coming here, and Obama will use them as an excuse to grab more power. He can't let a crisis go to waste.

Danny, how did you draw that conclusion?

The current Global Economic Crisis a result of the Housing Bubble caused in the United States that threw us, the leader of the world economy, into a recession and economic downturn. The snowball effects of this crisis led to a Global Credit Crunch. There has always been too much Global Government Debt, our world economic system is built upon debt, without debt, and lots of it, the World Central Banks and the IMF would have no reason or capacity to function. Global Debt didn't cause what is happening now. The ensuing Credit crunch resulting from the RE bubble in the US has now made refinancing and or carrying Outstanding Debt near impossible.

You need to read up some more. And please leave the progressives\capitalist type accusations out of the conversation.

We need to move forward. You all seem only interested in pointing a finger where the blame is already clearly obvious. So we don't need to point fingers, use your brainpower to figure out some kind of way to approach the problems facing the world, but our country in particular.

Are you capable of doing that? All the fault finding is getting old and clearly unproductive, and a nonsensical waste of time. I detest wastefulness. Please. lets not waste each others' time.

Start talking about solutions. Solutions that don't strip the already needy of the few things they have left to live on.

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Forgive me, but I don't need a lesson on Cavemen, the Ice Age, or anything else. I only need to look at the last decade to see there is more than something inherently flawed about the way our world is operating.<!-/Quote-!>

Haha, that's funny stuff there PH. Your obviously an intelligent person who writes well, but some of your positions are not well thought out.

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The greed of a few men, who completed millions of mortgage transactions to people they knew would eventually default, in their infinite greed led the world into the largest economic disaster of our times.<!-/Quote-!>

So, it was just a few greedy wall street bankers who created this problem, right? Is that what you really believe? Isn't the Federal Reserve supposed to tighten monetary policy when they see a speculative bubble forming? They certainly failed to see the real estate bubble forming and react to it. What about the community reinvestment act? Did it not mandate that banks make more risky loans? Did Fannie Mae lower its standards, so it could buy these risky loans from the banks? Do you remember in 2005, when the Republicans tried to strengthen the regulations for Fannie Mae? Didn't Barney Frank say in 2005 that he saw no crisis? Then, in 2010 he denied saying that. Barney Frank's own words

They didn't 'fail' anything, the whole farce was planned.

Nick, please wake up. Take the veil off and look at what is staring you in the face. If you are in denial, it is obvious we can't get anywhere arguing who is at fault.


My positions are well thought out. I don't repeat what the media pours into our heads everyday. I think independently, so of course my view is not well thought out.

It would appear your response is not well thought out. The conversation is moving(or at least should be by now) past the mumbo jumbo arguments. You feel how you feel, and so do I. Nothing will move us from our positions. Now can we get to what you think would help fix what is already done?

In order to prescribe solutions, one must examine what factors created the problem in the first place. That is key to fixing any issue. If you don't address the right things, then you want make any real progress.

The 1st item would be to restore confidence in the economy, which would require a quick resolution to the wreckage of the real estate bubble. People who aren't currently paying their mortgages need to be removed from their homes, but helped by the government to find other places to live. Then, once the homes are resold to people who can pay the monthly payments, the real estate market can recover. Every post ww2 recovery has been led by real estate, and that's part of the reason this one is so anemic. The whole real estate financing system needs to be overhauled, and it needs more rigorous over-site and regulation.

Second, Obamacare and the financial regulation bill need repeal ( especially the bailout provisions ). Tax rates should be maintained at current rates until growth rates start increasing and real estate prices stabilize. Government spending needs to return to pre tarp levels, except for the extra spending to resolve the foreclosure mess. Cap and Trade needs to be permanently withdrawn from consideration, and the EPA needs to halt its efforts to sneak it in without congressional approval. The Fed needs to return to more sound monetary policy, the current QE2 risks causing a worldwide meltdown.

Third, once the economy is stabilized, we need tax reform, budgetary reform and entitlement reform. I will write more about this later, gotta go do some RL stuff. Feel free to comment.

This history has peat and repeated more than once Nick, please wake up.

If you don't think this wasn't a planned fleecing of the worlds wealth I can offer you some educational materials that might give you some insight.

Right on Hon!
Wait... history is in a peat bog?

(the love of money REALLY IS the root of all evil)

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Third, once the economy is stabilized, we need tax reform, budgetary reform and entitlement reform.<!-/Quote-!>

You aint gettin' it.

They don't work for you.

I agree Danny. Obamacare should be repealed and we should replace it with a single payer system like that of Canada and the UK. This would simplify the entire process and move the debate towards making this healthcare model sustainable like it is in our the two mentioned nations.

Taxes. Interesting. Again, simplification is needed. The mere debate is wasteful in itself. Raise taxes, lower taxes, yada yada. Install the "Fair Tax" proposal we all win and see a lot more money on our paychecks. A change to the "Fair Tax" is better for individuals of all wage classes and is probably the quickest and easiest route to a budget surplus, and easy financing of a single - payer healthcare system as well.

Day in and day out I watch CNBC and Bloomberg. The schemes we see played out in the financial world and the lack of anyone in either party to combat corruption, restoring confidence in the Markets is going to be near impossible. Moving backwards and removing the new finreg bill will only deepen negative market sentiment, which is the reason it was first conceived. What do you think should replace it? Do you think free(er) markets will not lead us down the path we have already traveled?

QE2 is debatable, but will get us nowhere, even opponents of quantitative easing are now in agreement that this was necessary. The risk of of a worldwide meltdown is already upon us, I fail to see how the "perceived' risk is not equally justified the other way around. Therefore both concerns cancel each other out. Damned if you do, and damned if you don't. What I do wholeheartedly agree on is how the 600B was used. It was basically thrown in the black hole that is our current financial system where the money will be absorbed and be lucky to ever see or affect the average person who is going to end up footing the bill for it.

I would rather see some 600B worth of state/taxpayer sponsored corporation to produce jobs and spruce up our lagging economy, retail and unemployment epidemic.

We have to listen to what they say.

Wisdom dictates that whenever someone delivers a false accusation that they themselves are guilty of what they are accusing. Actually the word of God says that and I've found it's 100%, it always works. Try it out for yourself.

Lets look at what our friends in Washington falsely accuse others of thereby exposing their own guilt.

1. They hate you for your freedoms.

2. They will stop at nothing to harm America.

3. They possess WMD and the will to use them.

4. They never stop thinking of new ways to harm America.

5. (just a second, let me pull ANY 'war drum' bush speech. How about the State of the Union where he's all coked up... brb)

good short and to the point

PH--well, we all have to rant occasionally.lol
I like your husbands response to unemployment. Start your own business. My family has had its own business for 88 years. My sons, when they got out of school worked for others for a while but decided after a couple of years they didn't like that, so they started their own business and later came into the family business. they were fortunate that the business was there and much of my life has been devoted to teaching them how to look at like differently in terms of "jobs". Most Americans, when they think about work, think only about working for someone. And most have to do that. But more people ought to conside the alternative.

I also agree that we may be faced with similar social upheavals as Europe is experiencing now. But our form of socialism is not as entrenched/severe as theirs.

After Katrina many survivors came to Houston and a group that i'm a part, were asked by the mayor to go into the Astro Dome and find out what the people needed. When we went there it was apparent that within a couple of days the Dome would have been in anarchy. young thugs were intimidating old people and girls. children had nothing to do and rumors were rampant. We were able to organize pastors, and community leaders to develop a community in the dome, thus averting the chaos that occurred in N.O. It made me realize that we can organize in our communities to ensure our safety and that we can help ourselves but it takes courage to go door to door, organizing people for change. Remember, "all politics is local".

SG- i understand how frustrating it is. And that's why many young people don't vote. What difference does it make? I hesitate to bring my religious background into the conversation, but I feel that we need to reconsider our basic spiritual values. What's really important? Money, power, pleasure? To an extent those have a place. But what about family, friends, community and a feeling of connection with something eteral and beyond ourselves. I have a saying, "we run so fast that our shadow can't catch up to us" That's the American way. If we slow down we'll be depressed and have to face all the little internal demons (not literal demons). I believe in Karma too. There are universal laws that eventually catch up with us. If we don't act with compassion for one another there will be a negative outcome. All of our institutions, no matter how well intended and thought out, are imperfect because we conceived them and have to try and abide by them.

You wanna learn more about FEMA watch jesse ventura conspiracy theory tonight at 10pm on the east coast Thats on truTV. No joke u must accept the truth no matter how horrible it is. Call me crazy after you see it with your own eyes. I leave you with this clip and a quote.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etv8YEqaWgA

"The indiviual is handicapped by coming face to face with a conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists" - J. Edgar Hoover

A couple of books that you might be interested in are:
Crisis Economics: A crash course in the future of finance by, Nouriel Roubini and The Big Shrot by, Michael Lewis. They deal with the jmelt down and where we're going from here. I couldn't put them down.

Also, i have a blog entitled www.ethicalhouston.com that among other things, deals with business ethics. I haven't posted in a couple of months but you might be interested.

Kewl, I'm, looking you up.