What are we doing!? (Little Upsilon)

To all my US citizens. . .

Today has been an emotionally pressing day for me. Not becuase I'm moody, or in need of meds or attention. But for some very simple issues that I think are overlooked everyday in today's world.

After watching many news programs and other media sources on the net and such, I am overwhelmed with a tidal wave of emotions for so much BS in this friggin country its reeks to the High Heavens.

Most disturbing by unimaginable lengths, Children. A documentary on ABC, directly following my favorite program "WipeOut" featured kids, in detention centers. Man WTH, the $%^% is just a tragic mind boggling cluster *^&$ of Parents giving the STATE Property rights over thier children. These Kids don't need to be in jail, or any kind of detention. My biggest fear is that these kind of cruel punishments for our nations youth only serves to make hardened criminals of them. This kills thier self esteem, confidence and ability to function post detention in the real world. You wouldn't wanna know how I feel about their parents. I see thier baby pictures, and I wonder how in the heck these innocents have evolved into the state of life they now occupy. It is so easy to place the blame on them for their actions. But I must say,If I were on the outside looking in. I would most certainly make assumptions concerning our own society, our own way of life, and the circumstances that allow these tragedies to materialize in the first place.

Now onto other things.

Another thing that really pisses me off; in chat and forum, yes the real world even - one asks of another, Im "THIS" what are you. You Dem/Publican/Libertarian/Conservative/Liberal/ETC???? Who gives a ^%$# We all know that story. Its stays the same and ends the same. . . WITH ME PUTTIN THEM IN THE WALL. But I AM going to call out some real disrespectful "HOLES" atm.

St00pid Publicans. Man wth is going on with you guys? Big St00pid Shout to the disrespectful punk that called Obama a liar, like a 3rd grade child (pissy because he couldn't get his way) during a live presidential address. Tsk Tsk. . . "Poor Form" (Arkh Mori would say). That wasn't brave, it was true st00pidity and lack of judgment on their part. Shame on you, you nameless faceless scumloving Publican fewl. This debate is BS from the outset. I'm not getting into it. I don't even care. I'm just sick of how thie people in charge are turning neighbor against neighbor. Dividing and conquering, destroying unity that once swept the country in times of REAL Peril, like Pearl Harbor and 9-11. You bumbling idiots. All this stage play over peoples lives and well being. ITS BS!!!!! This is just a means to show you the true nature of the beast that threatens us as citizens of a once great country. We don't give a crap about the next man, woman, child. It is all about self. YOU YOU YOU. Your Life, Your Wealth, Your Health, Your Provision. How American of US, How CAPITOLIST of us. NEWS FLASH: CAPITOLISM KILLS. These Republicans, who hold huge ETF's stacked with the only stable stock pillar during this recession "HEALTH AND PHARMA" companies; are more interested in the bottom line than in life. Sweeping Health Care reform will undoubtedly tumble the holy $^%^ out of these stocks. SO; like AMERICAN WORKERS, whose 401Ks and homes and lifes' work and save, Publicans now stand on the brink of having their paper assets destroyed in a wink. While your economy suffers, these guys will never feel it. Do they really give a rats arse about you? NOOOOOO. Nobody cares if we go broke fighting a war against (WHOM?) in IraQ. The Publicans Pushed that budget. Even though The dems didn't approve it, reconciliation rules would have killed a filibuster attempt, so they wiggled it through. We paid for death and destruction. You can't say anything else came of it. (We didn't even take the oil? Who's moron idea was that??) With that said, give me a REAL reason that says we can't approve what will mean life to millions. Health to million. Peace of mind, for our brouthers and sister citizens who aren't as fortunate as us. Become HUMANITARIAN in the real sense of the word. Give me a real reason. Please . . . if you can. And don't come with those Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck "company lines", trust me I'm about to rip him a new Arsehole all over internet media. And please don't come on here fewlin, this is serious stuff to me, I'm asking nicely, don't play around or its gone be Trouble . . . Trouble . . .

Americans aren't in control of America, Wendy. These are things nations don't do to themselves. Things like jacking the corp taxes so high that corps leave the country to remain profitable.

The evil men doing these things work for the New World Order and they are nothing short of global fascists. They are eugenicists who believe we are cattle and that they are the ruling class being bred to be a superior species. These men, controlled by the darkest of spiritual forces, are responsible for the poisoning the American population with fluorine compounds that were first introduced by Nazi Germany in concentration camps to alter prisoner behavior. Compounds that are derived from metal refining and the production of material used for nuclear weapons.

America is going to be sheered like a sheep. These same creeps did it to Soviet Union too, they control the monies of the world. The 1929 sheering of America is why I'm at 35% income tax right now, before I have to pay all the other taxes. It's why I have a social security number. We are one of their wealth generating machines. They plan on devaluing everything in America, taking control for pennies on the dollar and reestablishing the value generating immense profits so that they may grow their god a little larger.

They are taking us into a one world government that I believe is going to make the Nazi party look like the Girl Scouts.

The attack on us with mind altering chemicals in our food, water and air is demonic in nature. The reality is that I will be dosed as soon as I am finished writing this, I will get ready for work and put deodorant on applying brain damaging chemicals through my skin to my brain. I will be spared the sodium fluoride as I don't brush with fluoride tooth past any more, though I will probably be dosed when I drink a Pepsi product today because it's made with local water supplies.

I would just like a moment to thank Jesus Christ for His lack of corruption and for His kingdom which also has no corruption. It will be a strange world indeed. People loving their neighbors as themselves. (imagine that!) The love of money destroyed and fixed as history in the past- forever, put down like a disease. If we find Jesus threatening it's because we don't understand what He said. We aren't in trouble, we stand 'not guilty' because the price He paid and mankind if forgiven, offered as a gift to anyone who will accept it. As with any gift if you reject it you will not receive the gift.

I'm not here to preach to you, or anyone. We must all realize that there is a battle for our minds and souls going on and that all of our views have been twisted by lies by evil men through the mass media.

Wendy this thing is so big I shouldn't even go on. I Just hope people wake up and realize that there's a war going on and they and their children are under attack.

I saw a little something on the News last night. An american women saying she was against obamas health reform saying it was like socialism and would take individual freedom away.
Me thinks poor woman has been brain washed with anti-socialism propoganda. How providing health care for the poor takes your freedom away is anyones guess! Sure it might cost you a little, but its just like any other tax.
We in the UK have the NHS and for those who can afford it we have private hospitals aswell.
Now the NHS is not perfect, You wont get the most advanced treatment in the world but who really needs it... a handful of people miss out on the best so the many can access the average. Now you might say what if you are one of those people who need the best... well if you are rich you can go private...if you are not, well lucky you have the NHS to give you the next best thing.
If I trip up and bruise my little finger I can go see a doctor for free... if I fall down the stairs and break a leg, I can go see the doctor for free, If I get run over by a car and break lots of bones and lose lots of blood and need replacement organs, you have guessed it I get it for free. If I have a rare heart defect that needs expert treatment well tough, I best win the lottery.
When I am rich, I will not bemoan having to pay a little tax so a poor man like I was once can access free medical care. I will not feel oppressed, I will not see commies sneaking around in the the background seeking to control my every thought.
I will thank the sim gods for my good fortune and feel privileged that I can help those less fortunate than myself.
America the richest, most powerful country in the world, lets its own people lose toes to diabetes as their condition was not an emergency rather than pay a few dollars a month each to pay for their care. Me shakes me head.

It's not about PROVIDING healthcare, It's about not having to pay for the aging baby boom population which threatens the bottom line of the industry. It's always about the love of money.

Don't fool yourself, when it is worded like the laws that seized the health care industry in Nazi Germany, at the SAME TIME they are seizing the largest corporations in America (just like the Nazis did in Germany)...


You know? If it walks like a duck... and it talks like a duck... what do you think it is?

CT scanners...

America = 32 per million people

England = 8 per million people

Evil people are stupid, they should have degraded the system fist and turned it to crap so it actually did need massive overhaul.

WE DON'T NEED (obama)CHANGE!

Solomon, apart from your first post, I hope you are bing cynical and jokey,

"WE DON'T NEED (obama)CHANGE!"

Yes, we do.

We need change in healthcare, social security, education, etc. but we don't need more government.

My hope is that the capitalists who put Obama in his place have underestimated Obama as a person. And that when they show him the valley of the shadow of death to scare him into doing what they want him to do, he will not only fear no evil, but also be willing to die/sacrifice for the cause of Jesus Christ, our Lord.

If Obama shows us that he is willing to fight capitalist fundamentalisum as well as religious fundamentalisum, we too will make the sacrifices needed to make the change happen. For if our leader can do it then so can the rest of us.
But if he does'nt, the change will either not happen, or it will come from the streets. Which will get very messy indead.
And if that is the case, we all need to start going back to church. For the Church will show us how to fear no evil, giving us the stength to get through what will be a very hard time.

You think there were riots for OJ and Rodney King? I'm sure if anything at all happens to Obama, a new precendent will be set. Riot will be a gross understatement. Not to mention how many nukes I have. . . to put up all the would be vigilantes' arses.

It's "Yes we can!" not "Yes we do!" lol

Wendy I would be interested in some of your reasons why you say we NEED (obama)change.

I see one critical issue that isn't even covered. That issue is supply companies deliberately over charging for goods and services simply because they are going to the medical industry. The entire supply chain is corrupt this way and there needs to be laws put into place to force corps to charge the medical field the same as they charge their non-medical field customers.

If we only did this it would have a dramatic effect on what's really wrong with health care in America, the cost. Beyond the inflated cost, what else is really wrong? Everyone already gets free health care in America. Break your arm, you'll get a cast. Never pay your bill and break your other arm, you'll get a cast. My aunt had cancer, no insurance, she's cancer free, she was treated. It's already free for the poor and illegal immigrants, everyone for that matter. It's the law, they must treat you. (Which I realize IS part of the cost problem)

Oh, and I wish I was being cynical and joking. I also wish I was wrong. The unknown chemicals in my deodorant are speculation, sodium fluoride unfortunately is not speculation. We've known exactly what that does since the 1920's.

Oh, and yeah, they really are eugenic fascists. Don't think Obama makes decisions, he's told. Told by the same folks that 'told' bush, clinton, bush, reagan, carter... etc. Last actual president? JFK. All the rest since? Puppets with strings of gold.

Solomon, enough with phrases. Obamacare isn't a relative term in my dictionary. It is a term used by publicans to describe Obama's will to reform healthcare. I will never give you my reasons, becuase other than being proud that your poor grandma made it through our joke of a syste, is not a moral, nor valid reaszoning to NOT want to pass healthcare for anyone. Therefore by saying this, you have dodged my request of "Give me one reason", and without even trying, you throw a company line on the table. It is meaningless hot air. Pointless and nonconstructive.

The one half ass point you did make was the supply chain thing. But what does that have to do with passing the legislation itself? Nothing in reality. So you suggest rahter than focus on this serious legislation, all the lawmakers should begin distorting any false progress percieved to have been made, to undertake debating yet another set of bills, which you think would be needed because of the bill we suggested in the first place that hasn't even been passed. Seriously? You are joking right? How long would you have us delay the real issue at hand, so we can iron out details of (?what?)?

"Everyone already gets free health care in America." wrong? Why must you be hardheaded?

"Break your arm, you'll get a cast. Never pay your bill and break your other arm, you'll get a cast." Right, but if you are in severe pain(like anyone with a broken arm will be) you'll get an immediate dose of pain meds, and discharged following the almighty "cast" you now broadly term as healthcare for all. When they discharge you, they will give you a pretty slip for more of an appropriate medicaation. But guess what, if you haven't got health insurance . . . you'll be surprised that the generic of your needed script, cost almost 200$, and that isn't even the good stuff.

"My aunt had cancer, no insurance, she's cancer free, she was treated. It's already free for the poor and illegal immigrants, everyone for that matter." WRONG! Honestly, may your God Bless your Gmom many times over, and I am happy to hear has survived cancer. But first of all, your grandma isn't representative of an entire poor nation without healthcare. Indeed she was a unique case on two different fronts, she not only beat cancer, but she did so with the poor man's level or quality of care. That is indeed fascinating. What you forgot to say when you typed that was," WARNING/DISCLAIMER Solomon's Gmom has experienced unique results. As with all loads of BS results will vary. Solomon Grundy Corp in no way guarantees the well being of YOUR Gmom. Nor does he assume any liability for you assuming your Gmom will have any such of the unique results experienced by his OWN GMOM. " Do you get it. Did you say you were being cynical again?

Another and final comment of this post, is that Everyone doesn't have free healthcare. What is free, and what cannot be denied is "services" that can save your life or avoid serious injury. And today this has expanded to "Extreme Pain"

In other words, it is easy to see, they will treat broken limbs, it does pose a serious risk to your well being that could result i loss of life. They will treat cancer patients, again, that is a threat to your life. Quality Care is not free to anyone. Most ERs will do the bare minimum to assure themselves they have no liability risk and discharge you as they see fit. Surely you should have known that. I don't think you are very young or naive.

Anymore "Comapny Lines or Lies" you wish to spread? Maybe you like working for free? You should let the idiots that are paid to spread that crap do their jobs. Wrong, St00pid or otherwise; at least they get paid to do so.

Typical Publican BS . . . more of the same. I know Solomon, lets wait 40 more years, til you finally get touched by not having insurance, or know someone touched in that way. Becasue you know, as long as YOUR Gmom is okay, so must everyone elses be? Nice one. How "American" of you.

Wipe out's cool. Ours is recorded abroad so it does'nt cost so much in insurance I saw one guy run across all those red ball things the other day without falling off. Loved it.
Did you know that one of the reasons why they say some of the third world is failing?
They hav'nt put their women to work# Work force going to waste.
This is why our kids are messed up. No quality time with someone who loves them. If a child does'nt feel love it will never know what it means to love. Add on the fact that alot of the time there is no father to take the strain..........and it's not surprising mother's can end up in a state where they give up.

Fundamental Capitalisum knows no bounderies. Conquer or be conquered. By whom they do not know. But if they don't do it someone else will. Sad.
But not only will they make money from healing, but now they make money from killing. To every one hundred US soilders in Iraq, there's another 136 privately contracted soilders.

Iraq was about out flanking Iran.

You should be a politician Wendy. Obama could use some of that spin right about now. lol

Obama is doing fine, without me. I haven't found or heard one legit reason yet. I guess I'll stick with Van Jones and agree the republicans are "holes" and Obama isn't. The only spin is on the factor. I do like Bill "O". Despite his political orientation, he remains a half decent reporter, an excelllent entertainer. But Rush, "Beck"istani, and the whole host of looney toon radio show talk host for wink radio, seriously have their heads' securely up their own arses. They spit all the spin in America right now.

Come back Grundy with a real reason too, please, im not making an argument, i'm asking for a legit reason, to say no. Your concious will covict you. You can't lie to yourself. It is way to easy to tell others almost anything. Look at what is being repeated in town halls, SPIN^8

I agree with Wendy: while capitalism is a great system that is dynamic and flexible and creates wealth, "Capitolism kills." The more the government, especially the far-off federal government, mucks around with our lives, from purposelessly starting and extending wars to taxing peoples' incomes to both colluding with some businesses and hampering others, the more we the people tend to get shafted.

The proper question is not "Why shouldn't government get further involved in our health care system?", but "Why should it?" It's already heavily involved, and that involvement contributes heavily to the problems the health care system currently faces.

Why can employers deduct the cost of employee health care from their taxes as an expense, but individuals can't deduct their health insurance costs from their own taxes? Business bids up the price of insurance policies with their relatively healthy workers and cheap insurance payments. States mandate what conditions and treatments insurance policies cover, many of them seen as frivolous, irrelevant and unwanted by most people--but insurance comps love it, more business for them. Doctors and hospitals are essentially forced to accept below-market payments from Medicare patients, and compensate by charging higher prices to those with insurance and even higher prices to those paying out of pocket. The federal government prohibits people from buying health insurance out of state, thus reducing competition. The result of all this is that government prevents people from purchasing no-frills catastrophic insurance (the main purpose of insurance in other domains) and drastically raises the cost of buying any insurance at all.

One of the House versions would impose a fee on businesses that do not provide health insurance to their employees, "pay or play." 8% of their payroll costs. Businesses will deal with this fee in ways that will generally raise prices, lower salaries, and reduce profits to owners and shareholders. The Congressional Budget Office predicts that since businesses currently spend over 11% of their wages and salaries on employee health insurance, many employers will actually drop their coverage--they estimate this will be about 9 million workers, plus their families!

All this BS and much more is why I and many other Americans are deadset against the latest health care "reform" proposals. They smell awful. The "solutions" are worse than the existing problems. The 46 million Americans without health care insurance includes 12 million who are eligible for gov't insurance but haven't applied. The process is too complicated and/or they don't know they're eligible...haha, more problems caused by gov't itself. Another 9 mil live in households making $75k and up, but choose not to buy insurance. Of the remaining 28 mil, roughly 5 mil are illegal immigrants, and a large number are healthy young adults who don't need much medical attention. All these uninsured people get some medical care one way or another, an average of $2000 worth per person last year. The biggest crisis in health care is the political crisis for the Democrats in Congress and the White House, hence the propaganda machine in full force.

We SHOULD: raise the eligibility age for Medicare gradually, as they've done with social security. Reform medical malpractice law so that doctors don't have to prescribe unneeded tests and treatments simply as CYA practice. Eliminate the stupid existing regulations that profit the insurance companies and business owners at the expense of all the rest of us. Then we'll see affordable insurance against expensive treatment that people can just buy the way they buy other kinds of insurance, and affordable doctor rates that we can just pay the way we buy food, clothing, entertainment, and everything else.

The current bills proposed in congress include a few of these measures, but by and large they are filled with more regulations and requirements, perverse incentives that will diminish our range of choices of health care arrangements and cost more in taxes. The big drug and insurance companies are seeing their survival built into the bill. Medical professionals will see lower incomes over time. Over time fewer people, of less quality, will try to enter the profession, as in Britain.

My impression is that with the Dem proposals a few low income people will get better health care, the rich will be untouched, and the majority of middle class people will end up paying more, and getting less. From day one we'll start hearing about the huge costs for old people and for things we take for granted now, and it will be slow but sure cutbacks in coverage from then on.

Has their ever been an 'efficiently' run government program?

Wendy, the Republican/Democrat thing isn't real.

At least listen to what Governor Ventura has to say 4 minutes and 10 seconds in.

The Obama Deception

The best quotes I heard about the American healthcare reforms have been in direct comparison the the UK's system. The two most notable being,

"The UK government spends $20k per patient per year on healthcare. Go beyond this and They have decided not to pay for anymore. Do you really want to put a price-cap on your healthcare?"

OK then. Two things about that. Firstly, where did they get the figure of $20k from? Secondly, even if it was only $20k, wouldn't that be $20k more than the $0 they spend? 40,000,000 Americans without a means to get healthcare vs 60,000,000 Britons who get it all free? Hmmm... Not the best statement to make.

Then there was a newspaper article I heard about on a discussion program;

"If Steven Hawking had been British then the NHS wouldn't have been able to provide his healthcare and he'd have died long ago."

1. Steven Hawking is British.
2. He owes his life to the NHS, and he openly admits it.

The problem, as always with democratic decisions, is the vast majority not fully understanding the issues at hand. Most people likely don't want to understand if it pinches them in the pocket.

But to put it another way, I pay less on National Insurance per month than I would on private health insurance. For that I get an excellent medical service whenever I need it without having to worry about either bankruptsy or increased premiums.

For those who cannot afford the price of medicine in the US - I know at least one family who falls into this category; a player here, though I won't mention names - it could be all the difference.

You just have to do it right.

have you noticed that many suggest the way to get out of recession is for we consumers to buy more. we need to change our priorities from consumerism to developing social capital (education, infrastructure, job creation in areas like environmentally sane industries, etc.) 60% of the fed budget is for things like ss, medicare, medicaid, interest on debt and 20% is for military. hidden in the other 20% is more military. that doesn't leave much to play with. in order to right the ship we're going to have to cut entitlements and military and then raise taxes on the rich. but all us old people don't want the govt to mess with our medicare and social security. that's got to change. and as far as rationing of healthcare, it's a fact and will be more so in the future. i'm 69 and it's stupid to give people 85 new heart valves or do transplants on them. when it's my time i hope my family says, "he's lived a great life, but it's time to give him some peace".

Wow, this is one of the most interesting conversations I've ever seen on SC...and it was started by a sworn enemy who I unfortunately mostly agree with on this one ;)

WB's 2 cents:
Being the only developed nation in the world that doesn't guarantee healthcare to it's citizens is disgraceful and disgusting. It has been said that capitalism is the worst economic system, except for all the others and this is true in many ways. One area where capitalism is definitely problematic is healthcare as capitalism essentially requires American corporations to avoid paying for as much as possible in order to turn as large of a profit as possible, this is dangerous and immoral (yes I said it Wendy).

What makes this situation even more ridiculous is the amount of money we currently spend on healthcare while providing the worst outcomes in the industrialized world. France has the #1 ranked healthcare system and they spend half of what we do on a per capita basis, but even with all of that money spent, we rank #37, just below such wonderfully rich countries as Dominican Republic, Chile and Costa Rica.

Ebby is right about the amount of money spent on the entitlement programs about 55% of the budget is spent on SS, Medicare and Medicaid, then another 20% plus is spent on military and then you have the 8% that goes to interest on debt. However the key to lowering these costs is comprehensive healthcare reform, we should be able to cut our healthcare costs in half, there is no reason we should be spending twice as much as the country with the best system while providing FAR worse results. If we can get those costs in line then all the sudden we could be running a federal surplus to begin paying off the debt that's eating 8% of the budget every year.

Everyone is so afraid of any government involvement in healthcare, but I'm far more afraid of the private corporations who have no other goal than profit. Look at the countries that currently have guaranteed healthcare, UK, Canada, France, etc., first, do we call all of those countries socialist countries? That answer is obvious. Second, do you see mass uproar and riot with calls by the people for the government to repeal the 'evil socialized medicine'? No.

As for government being able to run a healthcare program, our government currently runs the most endeared healthcare system in the country, Medicare and Medicare would be far cheaper if we could get some low cost people like me into the system. The current system gives the insurance companies the cream 20-40 yr old segment of the population while the government eats the cost on the most expensive part of the population, those 65+.

he said "sworn enemy" LMAOOOO

don't tell me that was rude and disrespectful.

Thx for your participation on this topic.

Dominican Republic has a better health care system than the US?? Come on, that's ridiculous.

Where would you rather get health care...US, or DR? Think about it.

I'm quite sure that the poorest Americans get health care at least as good as the middle class in DR. Any ranking system that places the US below DR should be viewed with extreme skepticism by any educated, thinking person.

I don't know what world they live in. Again, it is unlawful not to treat anyone that goes to a hospital in America. People being turned away is much worse than the situation we have now. If you're in America walk into ANY V.A. Hospital and tell me you honestly want the rest of the health care in the country to operate like that, talk to some of the veterans there and find out what they think.

LOOK! The friggin economy is collapsing and all the 'leaders' can worry about is another scam to milk more money out of the system and if you think this is anything more than a scam you're fooling yourself. Since when did these men stop loving money? Since when have they stopped screwing us? When have they ever put our interests before those who put them in power and supply their riches?

People are looking at the wool that has been pulled over their eyes and believe they see the world, that's troubling.

I can not believe so many people are willing trust liars and thieves. I can't believe there are people out there still falling for it. Okay, here's another lesson for you in getting screwed by the ruling class, know what though? I don't expect Americans to learn from this current 'gang rape' situation either.

If it's all about you and your wallet, if you're one of those folks that only care about yourself to the detriment of your neighbor, I believe you are about to get what you deserve!

Whiteboy:

"Everyone is so afraid of any government involvement in healthcare, but I'm far more afraid of the private corporations who have no other goal than profit."

Dude, private corporations who have no other goal than profit own your government and evil eugenicists own the private corporations. Oh, and we should stop thinking that all of the men who own these conglomerates are even American.

OH THE FRUSTRATION!!! Am I the only one who sees them taking control of the largest industries in America? Now they're taking the entire health care industry and destroying the private insurance industry in their wake- and here I see those blindly willing to help them.

The US medical system is third world standard. Well it is first of the best if you have money to afford it. Otherwise I could well believe that the US health system is worse than the Domenican Republic for ordinary US Citizens.
A good standard of health is not a priviledge reserved for the rich - it is a right of the nations citizens.
PS I am Australian, we have a system like Jimmy Carter tried to set up, and Barack Obama is trying to introduce. But, we are pulling it down so we will have a shit system - just like the US