IPO offerings

Shouldnt be the option to list a public offering regardless of PE values? I mean they are the CEO...lol

I've noticed PE ratio's have been declining a bit...but, wow my enterprise is really losing money. Now, mind you I have built up to nearly a hundred corps in just a week or so, but I've used about 100 gold coins in upgrading them. Some of my fully upgraded corps are still losing money with full demand for their products.

What's your selling strategy, my enterprise in making 8B a month and only has 17 corps. All are making profits even if some are small.

Andy how will lifting the required pe ratio help investment funds by into ipos. They have not been doing so over the past few days or weeks.

Most enterprises are profitable.
the very large ones might be less profitable.

the asset value may decline but asset value should be seen compared to the current exchange rate.

the main issues with enterprises are:
1. Are they profitable (check the total profit)
2. How much do they contribute to the countries where the corporations are. (many times your own countries).

The PE level is a measure of the profitability of corporations.
You don't want to bring weak corporations to the market. nobody will purchase the shares.

Funds have their own PE ratio levels they use to decide if the want to purchase shares or sell them.

the funds might be readjusting.

The most recent change in the share market required funds to increase their share in corporations they have larger holdings (if possible) and eliminate in others if they own a very small part of the corporation.

This reduced the average number of shareholders per corporation. It did not change their hunger for shares.

I disagree Andy. Investment funds are not buying like they once did. Your hungry analogy should be more like they're on a diet. They do not seem to be touching corps with P/E ratios over 11. Just as you have raised P/E requirements for IPO'ng perhaps you should do the same for Investment funds, forcing them to buy into corps up to at least P/E's of 35.

If P/E ratios have to be raised every two weeks in order to allow players to IPO then there is a problem somewhere. This problem exist due to the changes introduced to the game.

Since I take C3's every single day I see those Investment funds once I conquer them and none of those c3's ever have big chunks of any corp, so I also believe you to wrong in thinking they buy chunks of corps. Each and every Investment FUnd in the c3's I take buy tiny, tiny pieces of corps just like they always did. None of them ever have any percentage owned more then .04% which is smaller then tiny. Here is just one example of the lates C3's IF I have taken,

Cash: - - - - 122.37B SC$
Afla Air Transport 1,295,180 0.01 % 136.28 SC$ 8.26 SC$ Click to see history 18.9 10.70M SC$ 0 60,417,120 buy/sell
Alexandria Construction 3,739,648 0.05 % 58.84 SC$ 36.36 SC$ Click to see history 16.8 135.97M SC$ 0 1,401,652,776 buy/sell
Ameraq Oil 01 17,566 0.01 % 14,103.04 SC$ 2.72 SC$ Click to see history 573.2 47,780 SC$ 0 15,558,510 buy/sell
Ameraq Vires Household Product 1,501,082 0.01 % 103.24 SC$ 7.13 SC$ Click to see history 17.8 10.70M SC$ 0 692,324,552 buy/sell
Batista Chemicals 418,129 0.01 % 562.88 SC$ 61.17 SC$ Click to see history 20.4 25.58M SC$ 0 2,774,400,000 buy/sell
Batista High Tech Services 3,109,880 0.01 % 77.24 SC$ 7.27 SC$ Click to see history 17.0 22.61M SC$ 0 141,723,304 buy/sell
Betroka Household Products 3,429,442 0.03 % 145.72 SC$ 20.52 SC$ Click to see history 17.3 70.37M SC$ 0 500,684 buy/sell
Blue River Household Products 12,396,691 0.02 % 34.97 SC$ 5.24 SC$ Click to see history 20.3 64.96M SC$ 0 23,035,386 buy/sell
Bohol High Tech Services 1,058,212 0.01 % 223.96 SC$ 10.56 SC$ Click to see history 6.8 11.17M SC$ 0 255,999,989 buy/sell
Boltar Household Products 2,871,667 0.01 % 88.86 SC$ 4.17 SC$ Click to see history 17.3 11.97M SC$ 0 0 buy/sell
Boulder Household Products 161,594 0.01 % 1,194.08 SC$ 71.86 SC$ Click to see history 6.6 11.61M SC$ 0 12,332,189 buy/sell
Callanda High Tech Services 9,591,510 0.02 % 48.08 SC$ 6.54 SC$ Click to see history 16.9 62.73M SC$ 0 0 buy/sell
Canard Oil 2,808 0.02 % 76,636.16 SC$ 1.98 SC$ Click to see history 350.3 5,560 SC$ 0 260,097 buy/sell
Cavewood Chemicals 8,813,394 0.02 % 54.97 SC$ 8.94 SC$ Click to see history 18.0 78.79M SC$ 0 0 buy/sell
Clinton Air Transport 2,388,152 0.01 % 132.84 SC$ 5.92 SC$ Click to see history 16.3 14.14M SC$ 0 13,120,007 buy/sell
DE Draco HT Services 02 1,131,899 0.01 % 172.00 SC$ 16.65 SC$ Click to see history 16.8 18.85M SC$ 0 0 buy/sell
Delray Household Products 3,112,729 0.02 % 110.26 SC$ 5.45 SC$ Click to see history 27.8 16.96M SC$ 0 0 buy/sell
Digras Chemicals 1,692,419 0.01 % 118.46 SC$ 18.30 SC$ Click to see history 18.1 30.97M SC$ 0 0 buy/sell
Dragonia Oil 02 211,227 0.01 % 929.92 SC$ 2.68 SC$ Click to see history 8.6 566,088 SC$ 0 32,313,049 buy/sell
Elbert Services 676,632 0.02 % 285.20 SC$ 9.87 SC$ Click to see history 2.2 6.68M SC$ 0 78 buy/sell
Escondido Household Products 815,360 0.01 % 352.20 SC$ 43.36 SC$ Click to see history 20.4 35.35M SC$ 0 5,548,800,000 buy/sell
HO Air Transport 103 310,664 0.01 % 802.72 SC$ 8.83 SC$ Click to see history 1.8 2.74M SC$ 0 0 buy/sell
HO HH Products 107 504,160 0.01 % 394.24 SC$ 8.78 SC$ Click to see history 29.2 4.43M SC$ 0 1,831,717,510 buy/sell
HO HH Products 114 5,476,266 0.02 % 35.20 SC$ 3.18 SC$ Click to see history 11.0 17.41M SC$ 0 10,426,080 buy/sell
HO Oil 105 1,168,328 0.02 % 169.88 SC$ 5.60 SC$ Click to see history 4.1 6.54M SC$ 0 0 buy/sell
HO Sciente Air Transport 02 1,373,574 0.02 % 294.76 SC$ 12.46 SC$ Click to see history 13.0 17.11M SC$ 0 0 buy/sell
HO Sciente Air Transport 03 908,360 0.01 % 246.32 SC$ 10.11 SC$ Click to see history 9.5 9.18M SC$ 0 40,172,139 buy/sell
Hardin Air Transport 7,841,987 0.02 % 49.80 SC$ 5.79 SC$ Click to see history 17.5 45.41M SC$ 0 626,455,601 buy/sell
Hellia Air Transport 5,428,686 0.01 % 45.94 SC$ 10.32 SC$ Click to see history 30.9 56.02M SC$ 0 0 buy/sell
Hereford Air Transport 7,848,830 0.03 % 137.08 SC$ 15.31 SC$ Click to see history 11.3 120.17M SC$ 0 511,999,994 buy/sell
Hickory Oil 595,724 0.02 % 808.00 SC$ 8.22 SC$ Click to see history 4.2 4.90M SC$ 0 0 buy/sell
Huron Air Transport 5,615,491 0.01 % 36.40 SC$ 6.21 SC$ Click to see history 32.4 34.87M SC$ 0 0 buy/sell
Irvin Services 3,785,289 0.01 % 80.28 SC$ 8.36 SC$ Click to see history 17.4 31.65M SC$ 0 0 buy/sell
Ivenote Chemicals 4,851,931 0.02 % 144.38 SC$ 9.06 SC$ Click to see history 16.9 43.96M SC$ 0 1,001,566,416 buy/sell
Kanje Services 1,182,686 0.02 % 169.48 SC$ 51.87 SC$ Click to see history 23.3 61.35M SC$ 0 0 buy/sell
Kasai Air Transport 5,725,965 0.02 % 147.32 SC$ 6.58 SC$ Click to see history 18.4 37.68M SC$ 0 5 buy/sell
Macan Household Products 415,432 0.01 % 456.40 SC$ 49.03 SC$ Click to see history 16.9 20.37M SC$ 0 392,952,506 buy/sell
Mal Puento Household Products 1,224,631 0.02 % 391.60 SC$ 53.52 SC$ Click to see history 17.5 65.54M SC$ 0 282,015,738 buy/sell
Malan Services 13,778,175 0.03 % 64.86 SC$ 8.62 SC$ Click to see history 17.7 118.77M SC$ 0 0 buy/sell
Manara Services 1,001,341 0.02 % 220.64 SC$ 13.43 SC$ Click to see history 14.2 13.45M SC$ 0 127,999,987 buy/sell
Martina Air Transport 6,009,220 0.01 % 73.88 SC$ 10.43 SC$ Click to see history 30.8 62.68M SC$ 0 0 buy/sell
Mercola Air Transport 4,131,025 0.01 % 41.02 SC$ 6.92 SC$ Click to see history 37.2 28.59M SC$ 0 0 buy/sell
Montclair Air Transport 4,308,941 0.01 % 59.62 SC$ 6.00 SC$ Click to see history 18.6 25.85M SC$ 0 0 buy/sell
Napa Air Transport 1,507,409 0.01 % 165.10 SC$ 5.59 SC$ Click to see history 16.5 8.43M SC$ 0 12,617,195 buy/sell
Navajohill Chemicals 1,416,896 0.01 % 179.04 SC$ 17.47 SC$ Click to see history 17.2 24.75M SC$ 0 93,966,845 buy/sell
Oran Chemicals 2,145,066 0.01 % 131.66 SC$ 16.84 SC$ Click to see history 16.9 36.12M SC$ 0 0 buy/sell
Osso Air Transport 2,563,880 0.01 % 107.68 SC$ 5.96 SC$ Click to see history 15.9 15.28M SC$ 0 0 buy/sell
P Melancholy Air 016 1,916,220 0.03 % 251.44 SC$ 47.22 SC$ Click to see history 17.5 90.48M SC$ 0 127,999,997 buy/sell
Peoria High Tech Services 594,687 0.02 % 959.20 SC$ 15.02 SC$ Click to see history 8.4 8.93M SC$ 0 0 buy/sell
Personal Services 60,484 0.02 % 3,718.40 SC$ 43.30 SC$ Click to see history 0.9 2.62M SC$ 0 0 buy/sell
Pipur Chemicals 6,728,862 0.03 % 133.48 SC$ 18.35 SC$ Click to see history 16.9 123.47M SC$ 0 1,000,000,000 buy/sell
Public Air Transport 03 20,198,773 0.12 % 104.60 SC$ 19.04 SC$ Click to see history 28.9 384.58M SC$ 0 0 buy/sell
Puri Household Products 5,423,873 0.04 % 113.40 SC$ 12.79 SC$ Click to see history 17.6 69.37M SC$ 0 241,638,639 buy/sell
Romax Air Transport 2,302,828 0.01 % 108.30 SC$ 9.64 SC$ Click to see history 28.0 22.20M SC$ 0 0 buy/sell
Rosanko Oil 506,971 0.01 % 478.24 SC$ 3.28 SC$ Click to see history 4.7 1.66M SC$ 0 124 buy/sell
Saltcity Chemicals 223,422 0.01 % 932.64 SC$ 27.79 SC$ Click to see history 17.2 6.21M SC$ 0 65,231,436 buy/sell
Santa Rokka Oil 7,979 0.02 % 24,064.00 SC$ 3.63 SC$ Click to see history 39.1 28,964 SC$ 0 7,425,305 buy/sell
Saragota Oil 2,388,476 0.02 % 112.28 SC$ 8.54 SC$ Click to see history 7.4 20.40M SC$ 0 0 buy/sell
Sciente Oil 01 244,908 0.02 % 2,318.08 SC$ 57.21 SC$ Click to see history 6.0 14.01M SC$ 0 0 buy/sell
Sciente Oil 06 259,554 0.02 % 715.52 SC$ 3.89 SC$ Click to see history 1.4 1.01M SC$ 0 0 buy/sell
Sciente Oil 07 100,805 0.01 % 3,855.36 SC$ 6.33 SC$ Click to see history 1.3 638,096 SC$ 0 7,994,359 buy/sell
Selester Air Transport 650 0.01 % 383,713.28 SC$ 3.17 SC$ Click to see history 998.9 2,061 SC$ 0 3,312,655 buy/sell
Sharlotte Household Products 11,668,440 0.02 % 37.00 SC$ 9.02 SC$ Click to see history 22.0 105.25M SC$ 0 0 buy/sell
Spear Household Products 03 1,173,321 0.01 % 217.48 SC$ 16.92 SC$ Click to see history 16.8 19.85M SC$ 0 511,999,543 buy/sell
Sunmida Services 675,362 0.01 % 310.96 SC$ 12.17 SC$ Click to see history 12.2 8.22M SC$ 0 127,999,993 buy/sell
Swazi High Tech Services 558,086 0.02 % 840.32 SC$ 7.22 SC$ Click to see history 5.4 4.03M SC$ 0 63,999,992 buy/sell
TP Futile Oil 01 1,726,592 0.01 % 110.44 SC$ 32.81 SC$ Click to see history 19.9 56.65M SC$ 0 0 buy/sell
Telida Air Transport 10,158,302 0.02 % 51.25 SC$ 8.13 SC$ Click to see history 24.5 82.59M SC$ 0 0 buy/sell
WWE Shantaro Household Product 5,075,451 0.02 % 37.36 SC$ 18.88 SC$ Click to see history 31.9 95.82M SC$ 0 0 buy/sell
Watchtower High Tech 20,823 0.01 % 12,275.20 SC$ 2.11 SC$ Click to see history 645.0 43,937 SC$ 0 20,407,644 buy/sell
Watchtower Oil 4,930 0.01 % 45,373.44 SC$ 3.35 SC$ Click to see history 998.9 16,516 SC$ 0 12,972,144 buy/sell
Waynehill Air Transport 23,274 0.01 % 17,973.76 SC$ 2.16 SC$ Click to see history 998.9 50,272 SC$ 0 72,482,971 buy/sell
Wintron Household Products 778,233 0.01 % 279.60 SC$ 8.01 SC$ Click to see history 17.3 6.23M SC$ 0 255,999,993 buy/sell

I believe the biggest chunk owned is just .03%.
There is no evidence what so ever of Investment Fund's in C3's that I have seen that suggest they buy as you want them to. Meaning they do not buy in big chunks at all. They continue to buy tiny tiny pieces. The only problem is now however they don't seem to buy corps with P/E's higher then 11 when in the past they did.

If you like I could send a copy paste to the gm's via email of every single C3 I take in order to prove my point here if it would help any. That would not be problem.

I also believe the C3's only buy in proportionate ratio's to their overall purchases in accordance with cash in country. Meaning if they will buy lots of tiny pieces equal to each other instead of 4 or 5 larger chunks if they are not an old C3 with cash on hand.

Regards,
red

I must agree with Redman it is now very difficult to IPO a company and even if you can there is no measurable investment by the C3's and I have tried numerous times over the last few weeks.

The computer controlled investment funds used to buy and sell stocks like drunken sailors (assuming drunken sailors buy and sell stocks very badly) and it was very very easy to make huge profits in the stock market.

Now the computer controlled funds have hugely scaled back their activities, and almost all the stocks go years and years and decades even without a single share ever actually trading. For now, the stock market is basically a non-market, except for player to player sales, which are frankly really rare.

John Gilbert

ya, their were some serious loop holes in the stock market. you could do things in sim country, that would send you to jail in RL. with no meassurable way to police, buying/selling, and management of public corps... the loop hole needs to be cleared up.

just to illustrate the point. i once made over 300T in a couple weeks, using 3 countries in LU. i stopped doing it, because, its silly.

Orbitor what exactly did you do to make 300T lol

i had it all spelled out and ready to go. but i just couldn't bring myself to posting in the forums on how to cheat. i'm just saying, the lower PE thresh hold might be ok for a while, while W3C gets new features ready

its been at least a year sence i did this, and i don't have any of those countries any more, but yes, i did increase 3 countries IFs by an average of over 100T in a couple weeks. I'd like to apology for doing that, i don't need to play any game like that.

and those people that have been going out of your way to increase your IFs, the effort isn't worth it. and W3C has already stated that some IFs are way to high for new features...

Yeah but really good IFs and pensions can pay for your Health and Education. Whats wrong with that? seems utopian for the real world, hardly cheating.

well, the feature is meant to be used, of course.

the problem is... maintenance just a C3s raiding group, has over 5 times the monthly upkeep of moderate defense, that would tear apart my C3 raiding force. players are starting to invest, in the IFs, as a means to compensate for military upkeep.

this is one of those things that i strongly disagree with W3C on. sure attacking should be more expensive than defense. but to the degree that its impractical to maintain enough of a military to over take the "standard defense,"

but its just the way it is. and sadly, if you buck against it... you'll end up spending hours, and hours, just to have game changes that are going to force you to do what they want.

W3C has a long memory. when was the last time that newb hunting was common, its been years. but they still making changes based on what happened before secured mode... sure their have been other things that have happened. but W3C have a tenancy to take years to react to the playing environment, and often seem completely oblivious...

so we end up with players abusing rules, just to be able to keep up at the power level they want to play at. while rules seem to be made to compensate, and frustrate players that what to be competitive. and that for both war, and econ only players.

he main issues with enterprises are:
1. Are they profitable (check the total profit)
2. How much do they contribute to the countries where the corporations are. (many times your own countries).

The first is good advice.

I'm having a hard time understanding the second.

Can someone elucidate how fattening the coffers of a country, whether under your own, another player's, or the computer's control is beneficial to a corporation?

I do not speak of a country's action of investing those profits into making a beneficial environment for corporate activity. As far as I know that, while desired, is not mandatory. Therefore, why even have it as a consideration?

If your corps are making your your countries more money then surely that is good, no? Its all under one account ultimately, even if your CEO losses a trillion a year but gains your country 2T then your quids in, no?

Other peoples countries is between you and them, do a tit-for-tat, C3 investment is not really desirable.

In fact...while we are here, I dont see why all the fuss about C3 IFs not buying shares. Lordy, I IPO at chosen times to AVOID C3 purchases, you are just throwing your money away, yes they pay cash for those shares but the dividend each month then is lost in the ether, gone. Buy the shares with your own IFs and, even better, your CEO.
Not long ago players would do everything to avoid C3 share purchasing, dont do it, its bad economics.

Not including the "control factor" of having your own CEOs in your own countries, it's really no better than having other CEOs in your country and your CEOs in other countries. The country makes money of country resources and taxes... the CEO makes money of corporation profit. The same is true if its your corporations in your own countries as the opposite is.

Factoring in the "control factor", if your countries are 0%, you have many countries of guaranteed 0% tax for your CEO (with a higher cap on corporations in the country). This of course only holds true if you were offering 0% tax for everyone anyway. Better your own CEO fills the available room in the low tax country than someone else... this translates to overall tax savings. Alternatively, if your country is terrible for CEOs and has high tax rates, it's all the same. You can use your CEO to boost the numbers for Special Clinics and Back to Work Schools without running a net loss... sure other CEOs would earn you more money due to the high tax rate, but let's be honest, they'll avoid your country like the plague if they're watching even partially closely. I regularly move corporations in countries with over 40%... sometimes I've done this for countries where hiring and country welfare are affecting production. Sure I wasted some money on the moving fee, but it's totally worth it after less than 2 months. I don't bother finding out what's up. I just move. Back on point, my countries are good for CEOs in many ways... I have a buffer of state corporations that exist for the sole purpose of absorbing unemployment (provided salaries are slightly over 200... which my CEO's are always). Why waste that space on strangers who might build uber-terrible corporations? So I always go the maximum of corporations allowed in the country.

Grand Duchy of Marshall on GR - 0%tax, corporation welfare of 117.90 (and slowly climbing.) I do better on my countries then on my Enterprise, and at this juncture without them, my Enterprise would need to be on steady life support.

Enteprises do not have the requirement that you have a country as far as I'm aware.

I'm aware of the benefits of having Enterprises inside your country. The caveat is of course, the number of each is limited. I actively seek CEO's out, and send advisory notices to those that have located within my borderswhen I have enough population for more corporations etc.

To get back on point, if it takes your own country to run an enterprise profitably, then it should be a mandatory requirement to have one first.

Especially if that is being included as a measurement of whether an enterprise can be run profitably.

Enterprises should be able to turn a profit in 30% tax countries, with low welfare. Not a great profit, but at least enough to keep the enterprise afloat for the first 28 days.

All I can say now, is thank the gods for direct transfers and the war game.

Cordially yours,
Marshal Ney

The GM's told us in another thread some time ago that they were going to look at the welfare indexes in C3's and possibly raise them.

I don't know about others, but I have not been able to detect a difference.

Andy, any update on the progress of this issue?

The welfare index of C3s has been raised by ~20 points.

Confirmed.

New conquest - Corporations Welfare Index 103.40 Assets Index

The welfare index of C3 countries should be OK.
we have corrected it a long time ago, checked it and never looked back.

If there is a problem, please let me know.

I stand corrected. Thank you!

**cough cough** thats ok, no need to thank me, ;)

LOL.....;-)