Conventional Missile Corporations

Dear GM, I think you should take a look at Conventional Missile Corps. It seems they are simply not viable in their present set up, unlike any other corp type I've used. I've tried just about everything to make them profitable but I can't. You must either raise the price, or the quantities produced, or lower the supplie volume required. As they stand now, they are simply not viable.

I agree they are hard to make a profit with.

If they increase production to 36 missiles a year from the 30 now it would give 2B more a year and when quality is added it would bring them to a profitable valiable

The same is seen for other corps to. Plutoinum

it makes 54units and sells for 160M each = 8.6B
Yet is uses 60units a year of weapons grade uranium at 100M each

This means i make 8B a year and 6B goes to just 1 item. The GM should look into increasing the production of these corps to. Infact ALOT of corps are like this

Conventional Missiles
Pluto/Weapons urainum
Cruise missiles

Really anything that has been contract only with no trading on the market has made them stragnet in price. The GM should keep to fix this so these corps can again become profitable

Well, I agree with Super. It's just that I had not noticed this deficiency in WG Uranium and Plutonium corporations because I tend to leave them at 120 supplies so to give my strat weapons corps cheap plutonium so that they at least are profitable (Nuke Missiles and Strat Bomb corps I mean).

The GM needs to relook at some of the corps and tweak them.

Also can cruise missiles be sold on the world market again. With navies comming out and them having so little production whats the possiablity of us buying them on the world market?

Close them.
It seems that there is an oversupply of these missiles, price went down and the corporations are not making a profit.

If more people will purchase them, the price will go up.
if not, they should bankrupt or close, at least some of them, the supply will decline and the price may go up and profitability too.

Instead, build corporations producing products that are in short supply.

Conventional missiles are a space product. Andy gave the right answer to the issue with profit with these corps recently when addressing questions about a similar product that is only traded in space.

The intention for these corps is not to directly make a profit but for them to have a cost in SC$ and be traded for Gold Coins.

Super, your list identifies the corps that are not intended to return a profit. Add some space products and strategic products and you will be close to a full list

thought i just read from andy that every product makes a profit because the base price for quality is at 100 and you're buying the ingredients of at least Q120?

am i misunderstanding something here?

though, the difference between Q100 and Q120 is only 20%, so in order to make a profit that means the corp's running expenses must not exceed this 20% difference?

I also said that the product should be in short supply or at least not have oversupply.

didn't you ask for more price fluctuations before?
products going higher in price or much lower when in oversupply?
if the price is very low, corporations bankrupt.

i have not experienced what andy said that price goes up when supply goes down, because the price is simply just base on the output quality of the product multiply by the gm pre-set world market price; and this pre-set world market price has not changed for all the products that i carefully tracked.

i had to shut down my strategic bombers, stragetic bombs, plutonium, etc because they cannot carry their own weights--too much loss...and these shut downs were advised by ARIES

plutonium is an ingredient that you cannot get on the world market, so you have to create your own corps to produce them for your bombs corps. it is a product that i have to produce for my own consumption, and it is not profitable.

i do agree that in order to make these products profitable would be either to increase their max production units or to reduce the corp's running expenses in workers or ingredients. adjusting workers would probably have the least impact on everything else in sc? but personally i would rather have the max production units be increased to at least double the current max production units, to make sense and fall in line with other products.

almost no one buys these products either (little consumption), so why produce them at lossing money when you can create easier corps such as oil, chemicals, or other game level 1 corps which makes more profits?

@andy,
how does a price fluctuate much if it is just a linear equation?

as i have posted on this forum already, there would be oversuplly of a particular product if there is little or no consumption for such product. if the consumption is properly done, then the product either has to be produce from within or buy from outside?

corps would only be backrupted if you're pricing the product not enough to cover your expenses. but as a president or ceo, i don't have that option because i can only specify i want to sell the product base on my output Quality of the product times your pre-set world market price

one of the ways that a price can fluctuate would be that it has to be depended on the product's production costs and the president's/ceo's pricing strategies.

You ask why produce them? I produce many of these products. Plutonium, strategic bombers, space products, and, yes, conventional missiles. Why? Cause I want them.

i wasn't here long enough to know the past history of manipulations by players in this game, so far as i have been here about 2 years, what i have seen has been that gm/w3c has a fear/paranoid that allowing players to price their own products will provide room for them to under-price or over-price their products to gain leverages?

i don't see how this could happen if the players cannot control the ingredient costs, the number of workers, the workers' salaries, the amount of impact of the upgrades on a product, consumption rate of the products, and so on.

players have only been able to walk in a pathway that has very well gm defined side walls, floor and ceiling. as much as this game tries to stimulate "free market" economy concepts, it does not due to the control parameters that are in place, such as i mentioned. though this game does has many characteristics of a socialist, communist, or european economy as i have posted on this forum before.

in order to reduce manipulations, cheatings, etc would be to throw away the magic wand of instantly making products available for a premium price even though the world market has a huge shortage of such product, or to be selling millions of populations with the magic wand to players who can dash out the gc (via usd), or awarding trillions of dollars to warlords from money made with the magic wand.

perhaps it would be smarter if this game could learn from the america's experience since the american dollar was no longer base on the quantity of gold the country has? by this, i simply means that it seems this game is base on the american dollar, but does w3c put $0.10 US into the bank when it issues 1 gold coin to a player?

@aries,
most players produce them because they want them, just like i did for the challenge/pride.

but you know as well as most players that these products are not profitable and they do not carry their own weight. you have to have many other corps to carry the losses of these corps?

and regardless of the corp i build, i would welcome anyone's knowledge to turn a profit of at least 1B per month

what variables must i need to pay attention to, to get at least 1B profit per month?

please help

XON,
Please read some of the documention. you lack some basic understanding of the market working in Simcountry.

@andy,
please direct me to the right section/s, i have read perhaps 90% of the game documentation already. as i have said before, the documentations are impressive but there are contradictory information for some of them.

much appreciation for your help, please advise the section/s?

for now, i will be very happy if i can just reach my goal of 1B profit per corp per month

thanks

oh, if you could check my XON 3 country on FB which is making a huge loss, regardless of the variables i tried. from the financial statement, the country makes monthly profit, yet the cashflow of the country is getting more negative. if you don't not want to post on this forum, please inbox me or email me.

OK, I understood Aries' answer. And more or less I share his logic. I too continue to keep these corps because I want strat weapons and conv/cruise missiles even at a loss. But this means that not all corps are profitable by design as Andy maintains. There are some corps that are not designed to make profits but rather losses.

P.S. Andy's statement about conventional missiles "It seems that there is an oversupply of these missiles, price went down and the corporations are not making a profit" really left me clueless. Can you explain your statement Andy? I thought these missiles have a fixed price.

@christos,
if properly designed, corps with products that has proper consumption should be profitable.

i would imagine that corps of military wares would be very profitable if we got tons of wars, including pvp wars?

Convention, cruise, and pluto dotn have market prices there price is fixed becuase there is no global market to set a demand.

All corporations are profitable by design.
recheck your parameters and the market if yours are not. The corporations model in the game has no corporations that are modeled with a loss.
Many statements in the past and present, claiming anything else are baseless.

There are many profitable corporations, producing every single product in Simcountry. If yours are not profitable, you obviously doing something wrong as there are many, producing the same product you are producing, that are profitable.

It is harder for corporations to remain profitable if there is an oversupply for a longer period and the monthly price declines have accumulated over time.

You can have strategic reasons to keep them but it is your own decision. Long oversupply corporations start to bankrupt or closed by some countries. you can see the graph of the number of corporations producing each product. If oversupply continues, you will see the number of corporations decline.

This should in fact happen faster, and free up workers for more corporations producing products that are on short supply. You can see the number of corporations increasing for products that are in short supply for longer periods.

currently, in some cases, there is a shortage of workers to build enough corporations to resolve long standing shortages. Corporations are then not created. We expect that the market will become more flexible and be able to create more new corporations to easy shortages.

Products that are not trading on some of the markets, do trade on FB (Most of them) and all of them are traded on the space market for a price that is much higher when the exchange rate for gold coins is taken into account.

OK Andy what can I say to that. Perhaps it's my fault or perhaps the market price of conventional missiles is too low due to oversupply. As I am a creature of observation, I try to find a profitable conventional missile corporation in all worlds to model my corporations after it. So far I've been unlucky... All of them make losses and those who make profits do so either marginally (so do mine some months) or due to some rare windfall income (like selling some stored product over the months). I'll continue searching however. There must be a conventional missile corporation somewhere that makes a sustainable, even slight, profit if you say so.

Theres not Christos

I would like to ask the GM "because they can"
To make 1 of each

Pluto corp
Weapons grade uranium
Cruise missile corp
Conventional missile corp
Space maintenance unit corp

NON of these corps can make a profit due to there low levels of income/production. The Problem here is there is NO demand from the global market so there prices are stagnant. I make HUGE amounts of space maintenance units and trade them. i BEARLY make a profit and i take the barely profit because they are a needed item

Id like to point out 1 thing about conventional missile corps vs oil(for example)
Oil

Market price
Conventional missiles
30 per year * 296M per missile = 8.8B per year

Oil
30M units per year * 374 per unit = 11.2B per year

Andy THERES AN ISSUE without a global market price they CANNOT be profitable if being sold to another player on contract and as for space it takes a LONG time to make your money back.

I own docks for products that will never get sold.
Why do we even have a dock that sells ONLY nuclear defensive missiles and batteries?
But thats a whole other issue.

Andy recheck your math because you last statement was false not all corps can make a profit

i'm still searching for the documentations andy refer to, where are they andy?

the reality is that some products are not profitable even when they are at their max upgrades, max productivity, proper matching quality supply, and so on and shortage on the world market. i have not seen price changing for any product base on demand and supply of such product either.

i have not built conventional missiles corps, but i have built strategic bombers and bombs, plutonium, nuclear electricity/power, production plants, precision bombers and bombs, stealth bombers and bombs, uranium, weapon grade uranium, and so on...but i have to shut them down because they are not profitable. I have travelled to every sc world to look at how other players do these corps to be profitable, yet i have not found any because it seems that players just building these corps for the sake of having them, and continues to carry their losses through other corps.

andy, please help check my XON 3 country, because i think there may be tech bugs/errors. the country makes profit every month, every year, yet cash is leaking out continuously. it has the same strategies as my other countries, while the other countries are increasing cash in billions, this country is lossing cash in billions. please provide advices? thank you in advance

lol @ some people. I have really learned a couple tricks in all this,

keep focusing on your loosing argument, you are helping to spill knowledge to everyone else who is paying attention.