| Vladian Enache | Saturday, November 2, 2019 - 08:55 pm 
they barely make any profit when owned by a country and not paying extra 6B per month as country res used
i waited to see if at quality 300 my test corp CEO owned would do any profit, it doesnt, only big losses year after year
i will wait a couple of days before closing this money black hole, maybe you fix them
like increase base output like 20% from 0.45 to 0.55 or so. an even then it wont be to much profitable
increasing base price for shuttles will only hurt all the corp types down the supply chain |
| John Galt | Saturday, November 2, 2019 - 09:58 pm
You are correct. For ceos best bet is to locate the corps in your own countries so you get the resources fee. |
| Will Walker | Monday, November 4, 2019 - 03:56 pm
This is true of many industries, I pointed this out for Steel, for example.
Either the market prices are set incorrectly or the resource payment is too high. |
| Andy | Sunday, November 10, 2019 - 04:50 pm
We have experimented with these corporations ever since they were added to Simcountry.
They were always profitable but initially hard to keep alive, needed large loans because of the price of the product but that has been changed long time ago.
Currently, compared to all other types of corporations, they have the largest expected profit.
they alternate between profit and loss because they produce less than one product per game month.
These could look as if they are making losses but the profits are much larger than the losses. |
| Vladian Enache | Sunday, November 10, 2019 - 05:32 pm
no, they are making losses
i'm loking at yearly reports, not monthly
there is not a single game year in which this type of corp does profit for a ceo |
| Lord Mndz | Sunday, November 10, 2019 - 08:13 pm
Hi Andy,
I can only second on what Vladian is saying. CEOS are not profitable. I like numbers not just words as we all have our way of seeing things.
Please see my CEO Warmongers Inc on FB. CEO has 610 corporations. I set profit taxes to 100% to show you this situation.
What happens is that CEO shows profit but it actually losing money because cash transfers and Enterprise Tax are not included into profit calculations . CEO is actually losing money while profit shows completely different situation.
Andy, if you are able to see how my CEO is profitable please help me see this because I am losing my motivation to play CEO after 2 years of fight to find it profitable. I only move money into it and there is no return. |
| Vladian Enache | Sunday, November 10, 2019 - 08:45 pm
yes, they say CEO make a ton of profit, actually if you dont put money in to CEO it will go to 0 , no matter how much "profit" it shows
profit is when you can extract money from CEO consistently, for the moment i don't see that despite 250B "profit" per game month |
| John Galt | Sunday, November 10, 2019 - 11:32 pm
Not true. My ceos are all extremely profitable. You have to avoid certain corporations as ceo as they are not all equally profitable. Check Vandelay Industries on LU. |
| Lord Mndz | Monday, November 11, 2019 - 05:42 am
I knew you will say this John, but you should admit that CEO should not show profit when it is actually making losses. That is a common sense.
I will check your extreme profits after your oil corporations are down
If CEOs should avoid helping other players from building best corporations for them what is supposed to be CEO role? Only living in c3 countries with some limited corporations?, is it really so? |
| John Galt | Monday, November 11, 2019 - 11:09 am
Even before the natural resources update, my CEO was making around 800B profit minus 200ishB taxes. It's a numbers game. Expect around 0.5 B profit per corporation as a CEO. You just have to keep growing past 750 since CEO corps make less than country corps. |
| Lord Mndz | Monday, November 11, 2019 - 07:18 pm
So if my math is correct you need to have 400 corporations to outweigh those 200ishB taxes, which is quite huge amount. If 750 corporations are each making 0,5B/per game month then 750*0,5-200=170B real profit. This is very small amount for effort to build 750 corporations and Andy already stated that he doesn't want to increase this limit.
I want to run CEO to help other players to grow, so this would cause serious financial damage as I would be picking up corporations with high materials costs. |
| John Galt | Monday, November 11, 2019 - 09:46 pm
Yah I definitely hear you on the 750 limit. I don't agree with it at all. My CEO has close to 2000 corps through share markets. I would rather have the option to build more. CEOs need lots and lots of corporations to be profitable. |
| Andy | Friday, November 15, 2019 - 05:38 pm
if you put taxes to 100% you go cash negative and can destroy the corporation.
corporations have a cost of purchasing a new upgrade from time to time as they wear off.
At 100% taxation, you have no money for these upgrades.
So the question is, how much is paid in taxes compared to the leak in the
corporation.
If the tax and the contribution to the country are higher than the size of the cash drop, the corporation is profitable.
You cannot move all the resources to the country and complain about the corporation losing money.
Also, corporations have materials on stock.
From time to time, they purchase large quantities of materials.
the value of materials goes up and the cash goes down.
this has nothing to do with a profit or a loss.
The amounts involved can be very large and distort the view.
Corporations show the real profit or loss each month on the corporation pages. |
| Daniel Iceling | Thursday, November 28, 2019 - 05:59 pm
Lord Mndz,
Each corp produces slightly less profit than the math says it does. This is because the cost of replacing upgrades isn't included in the profit/loss calculation.
CEOs also pay the 'enterprise tax', to represent the cost involved in managing so many corporations.
According to your charts,
You have $2,481B in revenue inside your Corps.
You have $289.58B in profit inside your Corps. Although because upgrade costs aren't counted it will be less than this in reality.
At the Enterprise level you have $218.45B in costs to run manage the enterprise.
In theory, this would mean you'd be producing $71.13B per month in profit after costs. Your profit is 2.87% of your revenue. However because upgrade costs aren't included, your profit would be lower. With a margin as low as 2.87%, the cost of replacing upgrades will probably wipe out your profit, and make you cash-flow negative.
Additionally, if you build any new Corps, the costs of their supplies and upgrades will be taken from your Enterprise to get them started.
You'll need a higher profit margin to see get a positive cash flow. Look through your Corps, to find which ones are losing money, or barely braking even, and try to fix or close them. Once your profit margin is high enough to cover the extra upgrade costs, and the cost of building/stocking new Corps, then you'll see positive cash flow.
Signed President of DanNation on LU |
| Lord Mndz | Thursday, November 28, 2019 - 08:54 pm
Hi Daniel, thanks for explanation. The example was to just illiustrate super profitable CEOs while reality is much worse. I know CEO can be profitable but with current market situation it is a big challenge way too big for new players. |
| Andy | Friday, November 29, 2019 - 03:13 pm
Current situation?
we had large shortages before.
do you mean the price of natural resources. |
| Lord Mndz | Friday, November 29, 2019 - 04:59 pm
Andy, i mean some changes you made to trigger C3 to faster build corporations. Many products go green very fast and drop down slowly causing many corporations to be less stable with profits than before. I still waiting to see how this balances out. |
| Daniel Iceling | Saturday, November 30, 2019 - 12:07 am
Lord Mndz,
Having reactive C3s is a good thing. The permanent extreme shortages that existed before them, were not healthy. Even though they did allow for easy profit.
On the issue of CEO difficulty, I agree, succeeding with a CEO is harder than as a President. That's why I recommend all new players start with countries, and don't make a CEO, until they become very good at managing Corps.
People generally think "Ah a mega business, this will be a licence to print money". In reality, a business that isn't well run, is a money pit. Even good businesses make losses from time to time, and they require a lot of capital to set up.
Signed President of DanNation on LU |
| Lord Mndz | Saturday, November 30, 2019 - 07:41 am
Daniel, let me explain. Having C3 to react fast only looks right from general point of view but look deeper in the process. When market has surplus corporations start lowering production and hiring, until market slowly gets red again. Then c3 start building many corporations to react to shortages not allowing player controlled corporations to recover their hiring and production levels to normal. It is clearly visible in small markets.
In my opinion C3 should only react after some time but not the same game month shortage appeared.
Andy I hope it makes sense.. |
| Andy | Friday, December 6, 2019 - 10:27 pm
I saw this piece of code today.
C3s do not react so quickly.
they build one corporation from time to time.
not every game month but rather one in 5 and only if they have the workers.
they also close their own corporations if there are several corporations running at less than 100% production.
Currently, many C3s have too many corporations and many produce at low capacity.
I tried to improve it. Make them build when they really have the workers and close a bit more.
it will be in the next update. |
| Lord Mndz | Friday, December 6, 2019 - 11:11 pm
Thanks for trying to improve it.
Another way to look at it - it may be good thing to leave as is but adjust the speed of how market price is changing,make it faster. |
| Lord Mndz | Monday, December 9, 2019 - 02:51 pm
Maket is very green right now, is it expected?
Seem to me that C3 are overbuilding and causing high surpluses. |
| Andy | Monday, December 9, 2019 - 02:58 pm
Faster market price changes could cause damage.
Now, the price can change 6 x 4% in a single day.
This is 25%.
We have made C3s a little slower in their reactions.
they used to build even when existing corporations where not all producing at 100% and they had shortages of workers.
Now, they wait longer and they close when there are shortages of workers.
I think that C3 countries will have smaller numbers of corporations but produce more per corporation. |
| Lord Mndz | Monday, December 9, 2019 - 03:05 pm
Great, - hopefully it will work fine. |
| Andy | Thursday, December 12, 2019 - 04:16 pm
This process is ongoing and caused a reduction in numbers of corporations.
These countries are now adjusting the work force and will hopefully end up with a smaller number of corporations producing at 100% |
| Lord Mndz | Thursday, December 12, 2019 - 05:12 pm
The trend I see now is very positive! |
| Andy | Saturday, December 14, 2019 - 04:58 pm
Same here.
we see recovery in many types of corporations.
we also see many C3 countries with a smaller number of corporations producing at 100% and they are not jumping to conclusions to create more corporations. |
