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Thursday, January 24, 2013 - 07:34 pm  Over night 2 of my countries lost their stock pile of 500k LGB, 800K OAAM, and 1.2M MRM, along with well over 1M IM, and 2k stealth bombers. more i'm sure that was just the easy one to notice. i did not move or use them. they are not stuck in the supply units i'd like this ammo returned.
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| Thursday, January 24, 2013 - 08:49 pm i think the ammo went to where it came from. The ammo numbers increased tremendously in the last day or two. we are checking our logs. we have all the details about movements of ammo, in and out of space centers but also amount of ammo that went into units and sudden dismantling of many units. I do not have the impression that something is wrong now.
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| Thursday, January 24, 2013 - 09:49 pm the entire time, i had 2200 stealth bombers, and over 500k LGB, just sitting their, for like a week. i did not create or dismantle any stealth units, and they are all gone now i did notice in one of my countries, i ended up with about double the ammo i should have, in 2 catagories. but i didn't touch it. and all of it is gone. the ammo is not in units, from some of the ammo, and locations, are are no units of that type set up.
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| Thursday, January 24, 2013 - 10:26 pm to offer a thought i can not buy LGB on LU. i could not have received ammo i didn't purchase. i did not create or dismantle stealth units. how ever, i'm missing the equivalent of 100 stealth wings. in the 390s q quality range. i have a second country that has a similar (tad smaller,) stock pile, you'll see that one i did not touch, just like the first, but it still has its stuff i'm missing allot more than that, but that should prove that what i'm saying, is not the bug you describe. atleast, not entirely
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| Thursday, January 24, 2013 - 10:45 pm Can you please explain where these huge quantities of ammo came from. The numbers increased tremendously in the last day or two. No cash paid for them. We have very detailed logs of all movements. Into space centers, out of space centers, dismantling of units, max shortages etc.
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| Thursday, January 24, 2013 - 10:47 pm We also see large numbers of trucks, military supplies and fuel you never purchased. Please explain.
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| Thursday, January 24, 2013 - 10:52 pm Josias has a dodgy arms dealer. Of course there is no paper trail for the acquisition of these weapons/ammo. One has to look for other favours delivered.
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| Friday, January 25, 2013 - 02:39 am i had/have very large stock piles of those. i've learned from experience what its like to be in the middle of a heated battle, and run out of trucks, so i have lots of extra. i've got millions stashed here and there through out my countries, and ceo's. military supplies as well it is normal for me to have large stock piles of trucks, aircraft fuel, gasoline, military services, and military supplies. depending on the country, the world, and whats going on. recently, i've experienced a problem, where my larger countries, can not buy enough military services to keep up with the monthly demand. and i must manually buy those. i did once have to do an emergency transfer from off world, but since then, i just have to manually buy my Military services every couple days. this is my problem not yours. i'm just pointing out that i watch these things. i couldn't tell you the actuall numbers i have. but i keep allot. so, i had 100 stealth wings, of 390 quality sitting in my inventory (not set up,) and with out touching it, it is gone. i'm also missing my stock pile of interceptor missiles, and heli missiles, in 2 countries. along with all my MRM, ATM, and OAAM. and the stealth, had been on locaton for a real month. just sitting in that country waiting. but now they are gone. please return my ammo! and weapons!
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| Friday, January 25, 2013 - 08:30 am well, i do think that one of my countries that i'm complaigning about falls under your documented issue. but the other, that lost the stealth, and a full away of interceptor missiles, and heli missiles, i didn't do anything with that one
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| Sunday, January 27, 2013 - 08:26 pm My ammo's been vanishing aswell. In my countries Vipers and Sinister (LU). I put my air defence up which left me 200k int and heli missiles in the countries stock. When I logged in the next month I had 0 missiles? Wtf. That's not right. Were did they go? Viper and Sinister pls take a look Andy? This isnt the first time I've seen ammo vanish after creating units.
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| Sunday, January 27, 2013 - 10:17 pm There's lots of it going around. One good player I know suddenly went over 500K PBs in negative. Myself, I lost millions of defensive missiles of all sorts all over the place. Some reason was stated that didnt quite make sense to me about how units weren't previously being supplied properly or something and that had been fixed, hence the massive usage of ammo. You'll also note the greatly increased demand in ammo on the market that happened, though this seems to have died back a bit now.
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| Sunday, January 27, 2013 - 11:02 pm Anybody who lost ammo, should mail us. Nothing was lost that should have been there.
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| Sunday, January 27, 2013 - 11:14 pm I've been loosing stuff for weeks, im sure of it. Thought it was just me. Im loosing units in space transports aswell.
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| Sunday, January 27, 2013 - 11:24 pm Andy I know were my stuff should be. I moved an exact amout of ammo into those countries so I know what im missing. I should have 200k Int and Heli missiles in those countries after meeting the default ammo for my wings.
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| Sunday, January 27, 2013 - 11:26 pm i did andy, got a message, that i replied to, got another reply, that was a copy/paste of the original.
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| Sunday, January 27, 2013 - 11:40 pm My country Powerslave LU has the same problem. Negative ammo this time. I should have 200k Missile's to spare after default ammounts?
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| Sunday, January 27, 2013 - 11:52 pm Andy surely your detailed logs would tell you were Josias stuff came from? It seems like your saying that stuff wasnt supposed to be there so you's moved it?
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| Monday, January 28, 2013 - 01:23 pm We have discovered where a lot of this ammo came from and have documented all the cases where this bug was misused. if you have a problem, you can better mail us. Ever since we invited everyone to mail us about it, nobody mailed. so we assume everybody is OK. The error is fixed and a lot of the ammo that was created out of nowhere is destroyed. I don't think that anyone who used this repeatedly will have anything to complain about. we have all the names of the countries, unit numbers, dismantle date and time and all the numbers involved. Ammo that was destroyed in the correction runs that are now running all the time, will never return.
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| Monday, January 28, 2013 - 03:01 pm So you say there was a bug that enabled people to get ammo from nowhere? I wasnt aware of one and didnt use one. Yet still my countries all of a sudden went into massive ammo shortages. Maybe you mean it was a game error, not a bug. And you have fixed the error, creating these massive losses for many people yourselves. And please can you elaborate on what these 'correction runs' are. They destroy ammo? I know this issue has cost me trillions and when I think of serpent losing 1/2 million PBs, how much is that? I do wish you would be clearer with your player base when stuff like this happens. I'll work with this latest round of debt I have accumulated but it would be nice to understand where it came from. Thankyou, Crafty, long time active paying member.
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| Monday, January 28, 2013 - 07:02 pm I explained before why many units moved to purchase ammo about two weeks ago after being allowed to remain with shortages too long. You can call this a game error. It caused shortages on the market and we have commented on it etc. What happened now is a bug that was misused many times by a few players. It was fixed and many corrections took place. I don't think we should go into details and expose the players but we think that when you discover such an error, the last thing to do is to use it over and over again. In most cases, players report bugs to us and we fix them. We log everything. It can take some time before we notice but these logs remain here for ever and we have the tools to reconstruct what happened. current shortages Units, also in peace time, are getting supplies more frequently now and the countries, when delivering to the units, may be triggered to place orders. This is why we see more orders for ammo in general. In the past, they were allowed to accumulate shortages and in many cases were not resupplied and the countries did not place the orders. The actual use of ammo by the units is the same as before.
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| Monday, January 28, 2013 - 08:20 pm I've mailed you. The games unplayble untill this is fixed.
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| Monday, January 28, 2013 - 09:15 pm Thanks Andy. I'm sure you are right. But it doesnt help me that some countries have gone into debt so much with this, when they were recovering, that they now have entered the endless cycle of immediate orders - more cost - higher debt. You should have declared your intention to fix the supply problem or at least dismantled the units that were short, some other solution to creating multi trillion need for ammo. This has wrecked my game again, just when I was bringing it back. Thanks a bunch. If I found a bug I would no longer be inclined to tell you, you dont offer us the same respect by telling us, you just go ahead and do it. I really dont get it sometimes, you let countries go 200T in debt yet the owner can still buy military and take C3s (no disrespect to the person who does that btw), you allow the C word on the forum, people have issues non-stop and yet you plough ahead merrily with no thought to how you ruin peoples games. Sheesh. And it seems you still have issues, best you go ahead and deal with Gazs problems.
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| Monday, January 28, 2013 - 10:08 pm These aren't issue crafty there major screw ups. Deal with them all. I've been cleaned out. My country Kantam has been raped over night. 100T militarty assest's wiped out. Andy wtf? Dont say that ammo shouldn't have been there. I hadn't moved a thing when I took it over.
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| Monday, January 28, 2013 - 10:13 pm not to mention, why do unit HAVE to have the default ammo?
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| Monday, January 28, 2013 - 10:39 pm Isn't this default thing just recently added? Ever since then I've been loosing ammo.
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| Monday, January 28, 2013 - 11:52 pm The shortages on the market will disappear. It may take several days. This is not connected to the other ammunition problem. we have all the transactions showing repeated use of this bug. This should not have happened. No one should complain if he used it. Even after we started the corrections, and answered mails, some tried to sell remaining "stocks". we will check again in the morning.
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| Tuesday, January 29, 2013 - 09:14 am This is the final straw for me. I didnt take advantage of any bug. The countries I took over had too many assests for the GM's liking. I've tried to get a staright answer in emails but no they just fob me off.
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| Wednesday, January 30, 2013 - 12:37 am My issue in which I have emailed the gms about and resolved was this... My understanding is when I created multiple bomber wings I did not have the default amount of ammo in those units. I did not need or want that amount. For example The pbomber wings I made had a default of about 40,000 bombs per wing, but I only desired 15 or 20,000. But the game in an attempt to raise the ammo level to the default level caused the country to show a negative amount. Hence, the -500,000 p bomb deficit. However when those units were dismantled the ammo that was in them was returned back to the country stock and when added to the negative amount the total was no longer negative. For me at least, I did not have a loss or gain in the amount of ammo. As for those that were not assembling wings but were having defensive missile shortages etc... I have no idea about. I can say that my emails were answered quickly and even when I didn't understand the answer exactly at first, I sent another email and we came to the conclusion that I feel is satisfactory and that I have posted here.
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| Wednesday, January 30, 2013 - 08:23 am Had the same issue as Serp with interceptor wings. Forming them up with less than default ammo. The game then raised the ammo to default, which caused the inventory to go negative. I covered the negative amount....everything became square.
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| Wednesday, January 30, 2013 - 10:45 am ditto I made wings in poletaris and I got a negative number... something wrong on the GM side..... I feel free go and refunds comming
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| Wednesday, January 30, 2013 - 10:38 pm It seems that Josias has the real question. Why did the game suddenly decide that units needed default levels of ammo? If I were to now set my units and garrison ammo levels at say 50%, would my supply units return the excess ammo to country stocks? I think this would be preferable to me personally, to prevent these expensive ammo purchases. Can we no longer set the ammo level of units/garrisons? Maybe I could dismantle and rebuild all with lower ammo levels. To my mind, having a default level of ammo for any defensive unit doesnt make sense anyway. Int/heli wings and garrisons are only going to get one shot in normally, maybe 2 for some garrisons weakly attacked, so full ammo levels is a waste as it will get destroyed without being used.
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| Thursday, January 31, 2013 - 12:59 am What I have found in units is that the game brings a unit that if formed with say 50% of default ammo up to the default level. If the unit is formed with say 120% of the default level, it will not strip out the excess. Only checked on interceptor wings, not garrisons.
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| Thursday, January 31, 2013 - 05:04 pm Units could be formed (and can now) with more ammo than you have and then the ammo is ordered. This was intended to help when you setup units and reduce the back and forth problem when not enough ammo was available and you needed to order it first. The function went too far and created a possibility to create ammo out of nowhere. this was fixed. The numbers can go negative but in reduced numbers and they will be reduced more. Several players made use of this and repeated the process to create a lot of ammo. we have created a procedure to fix it and we found (probably nearly ) all the cases. We will find the rest too. Unfortunately, very much so, we found exactly one case that was not a case at all and corrected it too. This Gaz who was grossly mistreated. We have apologized to him and compensated his account.
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| Thursday, January 31, 2013 - 05:30 pm Yeah, great. And do you fancy compensating my account for the large amount of debt your sudden unannounced fix created? You realise that putting me into max debt causes dropped supply index and immediate orders which cost me more and so increase the debt, right? My units never had any problem before. I would sometimes get a newspaper message saying I was low on some ammo somewhere and a look through the army pages I could find the short and order it. Half the problem was that your auto order system didnt work correctly, not ordering some ammo as it should when low flag was reached. You acknowledged this and said you have fixed it. Obviously you hadnt, or the ammo shorts wouldnt have happened. I wouldnt have suddenly had trillions of purchases to make and my empire wouldnt have been financially wrecked again. I really wish you would own up to your responsibilities. This morning I got a nice little message thanking me for supporting SC, and would I continue to do so... How do you think that makes me feel?
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| Thursday, January 31, 2013 - 07:11 pm Crafty, come on. you can regulate that yourself, make sure you do not have shortages of ammo. experienced players know how to handle it and fixing your cash too. the shortages in the units where there all this time and the units were unusable. these shortages had to be fixed.
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| Thursday, January 31, 2013 - 08:56 pm Whatever Andy. The auto buying system should buy ammo when it hits the low water mark. If it doesn't do that, then it's broken. If it does do that then I should never have shortages. Right? I see messages of units short, I order the ammo needed. So are you saying I should daily check manually the ammo levels in all my wings, units and garrisons? How else could I make sure I do not have shortages? I am experienced and I have always managed it for the years I have been here. Until this fix was suddenly introduced. It's not me, it's your auto buying system and your newspaper and your reporting of monthly ammo use that dont work in harmony. But thanks for replying anyway. CC
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| Thursday, January 31, 2013 - 09:10 pm Is this the problem I am have here: https://www.simcountry.com/discus/messages/9/21564.html?1359658059 Andy? I did create a couple of units without the full amount of AMMO in stock, built the game was supposed to purchase that afterwards, and I never dismantled anything. Either way, a reply to my post would be appreciated.
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