| John West | Wednesday, September 14, 2016 - 03:45 am 
Presidents and CEOs of the worlds, please see my suggestion in the Voting & News section to "Create Multiple Units and Attack Multiple Targets."
You may have noticed that I copied much of this from my post on the thread here ("CEO corps ATTACKable"), but I did modify that post to make more understandable as an official suggestion.
I welcome any feedback here to this suggestion, which I have copied to here for your convenience:
When creating a unit there should be a text box (which could, for example, be at the bottom after weapons and ammunition and called "units") that multiplies everything to no limit, other than available weapons required. For example, instead of 850 tanks, you put 2 in that box and it creates 2 units, which would require 1700 tanks. If you have 1700 tanks, then 2 units are created.
When selecting targets to attack(before you hit the 'attack' button that brings up the window for attacking that target), there should be checkbox besides all targets of that type, along with a button at the top and bottom of the target lists that toggles all checkboxes, not unlike the corporate shares page.
After you have selected all or whichever targets you wish to attack, there should also be checkboxes beside units you have which are within range of at least one of the targets. They should not be required to be within range of all of the targets. Then, once you proceed to choose which weapons to attack with (for example, attacking with 2 divisions each comprised of 450 tanks and 400 artillery batteries, would allow you to choose up to 900 tanks and/or 800 artikllery batteries), any weapons within range of targets will begin attacking the targets one at a time until either all attacks have been completed, or you have no more weapons/ammo to attack with. To not overload servers, there could be a delay between attacks (say for example, an attack every 1 or 10 milliseconds or even 1 second).
Clarification: attacking a target with multiple units would not attack repeatedly with the same units, but merely cycle through multiple single attacks from one unit at a time until all units selected have completed a single attack. If, for example, a president selected 4 units to attack 2 targets and the 4 units are all in range of the 2 targets then the 2 targets will both be attacked once by 4 units. If 1 of the 4 units is either not within range of 1 of the targets, or has been destroyed during a previous attack, than that individual attack will be skipped.
As it is now, I will probably only attack somebody if they have somehow considerably upset me, because it would require a lot of clicking, and I often have distractions when at my house. I am the president, not a general, and as such I shouldn't have to click so much to conduct a war. That is not fair to me or any other player, including my enemy!
This change would benefit new and experienced players alike! I think the war system overall is brilliant but I believe many players have given up on the war system as it is now due to how many clicking is required to get through a war. Let us stop punishing players for attacking large defenses with large forces and allow them to attack multiple targets in a way not so unlike airlifting units or trading shares!
Vote YES to allow presidents to simply use a checkbox system to create units and destroy targets just as we do with trading shares. Vote NO if you like to spend a lot of time clicking 'attack' over and over and over again. |
| marshal.ney | Wednesday, September 14, 2016 - 06:08 pm
You have my vote, for what it's worth. |
| marshal.ney | Wednesday, September 14, 2016 - 06:09 pm
Sorry for the double post. I wouldn't mind seeing that system expanded. So you could select the number of attacks per unit per cycle. |
| John West | Wednesday, September 14, 2016 - 07:03 pm
That is a great idea. It would be convenient if you could select number of attacks per cycle even if only for all units selected.
In regards to having particular units set to attack multiple cycles, as it is now I tend to rotate attacks through units to even out the attrition on my forces but in this way they would be automatically rotated through so it makes a lot of sense. Perhaps while selecting units to attack the targets with, a number at top/bottom ("attacks") that changes total attacks for all units, and number beside each unit ("attacks"), before proceeding with beginning the attack(s).
A couple of other changes I would suggest: When creating unit(s), there should be a textbox at the bottom of the page to input a custom name of the unit(s), rather than having to manually go into the unit page of each unit created, to rename it/them. If creating multiple units, than a number is added. For example, I create 3 units called Armor. Then 3 units are created and they are Armor 001, Armor 002, Armor 003. Of course if only creating 1 unit then the unit would simply be Armor, as well if the unit name is not filled in while creating unit(s), than a name is randomly generated as usual.
Also when attacking units, it should remember for you which targets, and units you have last used to attack with, remain selected when you decide to begin another round of attacks, so you would not have to recheck the boxes. This could be achieved simply if the windows are not changed or closed after the targets are selected and the attacks are initiated (or like how when you trade investment fund shares it remembers which boxes were selected even though the page was reloaded, but not if I go to another page and come back).
All that aside, I'd be pleased if only we could at least select multiple targets (and create multiple units). |
| Andy | Thursday, September 15, 2016 - 11:19 am
You can create multiple units, it is part of Simcountry for a very long time.
Attacking multiple targets, hundreds of targets? or tens of targets?
there is an issue of range.
You can launch many attacks very quickly but you really need to point them and make sure the weapons you use are within range and effective against the target. |
| John West | Thursday, September 15, 2016 - 02:31 pm
Thanks for a response. I would like to see no limit to how many targets can be selected to attack in one go, as well how many units can be created at the same time (if weapons are available).
To clarify, the suggestion is to create multiple units at the same time, rather than one at a time.
and to attack multiple units at the same time, rather than one at a time.
Presently it can require a lot of needless tedious clicking for hours to create lots of units one at a time, and to attack multiple selected targets one at a time.
For example, to prepare for and engage in a C3 war level 10+ war is ridiculously tedious. Several dozens supply units are required, dozens air transport units, more than half a hundred offensive AA units.
To complete a C3 WL 10+ war could only involve loading the same two pages over and over again: Create unit and Attack target. The Create Unit (specifically "Setup Land/Air/etc. Forces) page must be reloaded repeatedly again and again. The Attack Target page must be reloaded repeatedly again and again. To Select Units to attack that target must be reloaded repeatedly again and again. The target selection is also repeated again and again.
A war with another player is potentially even more redundantly tedious that such wars rarely happen, despite the existence of this complex war system. It is simply too much loading the same 2 pages over and over again. Although it's a great war system, it's not perfect and I'm basically pointing what is according to my perspective the most annoying part of it. There are many areas of the game which utilize checkboxes to streamline things. Why not the war system?
As I said before, I am a sim-president, not a sim-general. As it is now, there is more clicking involved in a Simcountry war (especially as they become larger in scale), than a first person shooter, which is unusual for a strategy game. I have stockpiled weapons and ammo only to find that utilizing them is enormously time consuming.
That aside, I really like the war system, I would just like to see it improved to be more efficient and enjoyable for everybody. |
| Zen | Thursday, September 15, 2016 - 03:08 pm
I don't understand either John West. You can create multiple units have you never done that before? You can create up to 50 units at a time. For example If I want to make 200 helicopter defense wings I can set up 50 at a time, total of 6,250 helicopters and 468,750 helicopter missiles at the same time to make 50 units. Just do that 4 times and I make 200 units. You can make 50 attack and bombing wings at a time, total of 20,000 weapons. 50 Long Range Divisions at a time with a total of 42,500 weapons.( killing your defense cost btw if you set up a lot of long range divisions ) |
| John West | Thursday, September 15, 2016 - 03:10 pm
Oh wow I just now noticed the "Number of Units to create:" on the bottom of the page LOL. I wish I had seen that before. I don't usually scroll the page down that far. A lot of my time is now saved.
Well forget that I was suggesting something already there. I cannot believe I had never noticed that. Why has nobody ever pointed that out to me? hahahahah
I think that should be on the top of the page as well so that it is more easily noticeable to people. Thank you so much Andy/Zen for that as I am not sure I would have noticed that feature already exists! (written in dark red/black at the bottom of the page sort of hidden down there)
Can I modify my suggestion then that
*I am [now] only suggesting to select multiple targets to attack and to select multiple units to attack with.*
I think that would be very beneficial to the war system. Never mind what I was saying about creating multiple units. Please disregard that part of the suggestion.
(am I only one who had not noticed that you can create multiple units at the same time????? hahahhah) |
| Zen | Thursday, September 15, 2016 - 04:29 pm
Honestly you probably are no offense lol... HOW CAN YOU LIVE WITH YOURSELF NOT KNOWING THAT MR WEST? |
| John West | Thursday, September 15, 2016 - 04:55 pm
I DONT KNOW LOL
I am happy to know now of course that part of my suggestion already exists.
So . . . .still I would like us to be able to select multiple targets to attack (and select multiple units to attack with). I think this would drastically improve the war system and make more convenient for everybody!
Furthermore I suggest a duplicate of the textbox to create multiple units is also on the top of the setup unit page to spare others such as myself who may not of noticed it. |
| marshal.ney | Thursday, September 15, 2016 - 07:16 pm
You can create multiple units at once. The suggestion to name multiple units at once, however, has merit. There is a downside, however. Creating multiple units named "Armor", can lead to them being more easily countered in PvP. Unless, of course, those units are actually Interceptor wings, etc. |
| John West | Friday, September 16, 2016 - 05:05 am
That is correct that multiple units with particular names could be an obvious indicator of the composition of the units to an enemy, but I think regardless of that we should still have that capability rename multiple units or create multiple units with similar (numbered) names, because many of us do rename our units with total disregard anyway just for the sake of organization. |
| Zen | Friday, September 16, 2016 - 09:19 am
If the enemy has half a brain it wont matter what you call the unit. If it is an interceptor wing or helicopter wing it wont matter. Stealth bombers wings wont matter, naval fleets wont matter. Long Range Divisions wont matter too much either honestly, since a combination of mrmb and oaamb are really the only important LRD unit setup for pvp.
The only thing naming units will do other than making it easier for you to keep organized during a c3 war is make it much easier for an enemy to count how many units you have without having to scroll down the target list, if you number them that is.
I don't think that cycling is a good idea honestly, but that is my opinion. I won't vote for nor against it. I think two things would happen. either the attacker loses a huge number of weapons in a short period of time because they misjudged or they would destroy targets at a rate too quickly for the other player to react to the situation.
During pvp I just attack one target over and over and over and over until all defensive wings stop responding, kill the mobiles and continue my day. Attacking defensive wings directly will kill your units faster. Also what do you cycle attacking defenses, or the targets themselves? If you did that you might lose vast numbers of units in short periods of time. Very stupid honestly. Idk why it would be needed. You'd still have to take out the garrison of each target before you destroy it anyway( at least if you want to not get your units killed faster )
Just remember if you completely lose a unit you lose all of the ammo with that unit. So when you allow entire units to be destroyed you're losing billions of SC$ worth of unused ammunition.
Enlighten me on how this cycling would work because I see a new method of players getting themselves in bad situations if they attack a smart/well defended player.
As Aries and others have suggested before. Increases the size of the units themselves. If I had LRDs of 8500 weapons and defensive wings of 1250 weapons the wars would be much quicker with the same amount of losses. It would also make adding up all of the attacks at the end of a war for a log or record to study much easier. |
| marshal.ney | Friday, September 16, 2016 - 05:07 pm
I think it would be used primarily for c3 wars, for expansion. Cycle through all the towns/counties at level 3. Once the wings stop responding, you'd change your tactics. And go on to the targets. That would give smaller players the same advantage time wise as more established players who can fight large numbers of c3 wars simultaneously. Allowing them to grow into worthy challengers in the PvP community.
In PvP, you'd set up multiple attacks on the same target. You'd save wear and tear on your clicking finger, at the expense of some unneeded attacks. You'd change your tactics depending on your thoughts about response. At your own risk. It would really depend on the situation.
Larger unit sizes are going to bring back the same problems they used to have. One shot wipe outs of units. If you are going to change the sizes, you'd have to modify the combat mechanics to ensure that is not the case. And that is going to upset play balance. From the beginning player getting more losses per c3 war, up to the largest players being able to defeat the rest of the player base at little to no cost. Naval fleet size, to the best of my memory, used to be a lot bigger. And that was changed. Increasing unit sizes would just reintroduce the problem, across all unit types. I'm trying to see how having a single defensive unit in the country with a million each of all defensive weapons would spur more PvP. Ditto for attacking forces. |
| marshal.ney | Friday, September 16, 2016 - 05:19 pm
Increasing unit size, and then limiting the number of weapon systems being used in each attack phase to the current norm, is less elegant then using an echelon method such as Mr. West proposed. |
