| johndoe677 | Monday, December 16, 2013 - 03:36 am 
we should get rid of the system in which people can sustain unrealisticly large armies simply by c3 raiding.... a boring repetitive non skill based endeavor which seems to decide who has lots of assets and who doesn't in this game..... not to mention the damage to the real life world economy done by the hours of determined raiding by members of SC who could otherwise spend those hours being productive in real life.... I offer an alternative in which investing and the econ game is the primary means of making money and in which war is used simply as a means of advancing ones economy not by the GM magically granting you trillions in liquid cash but by gaining control of resources and other production factors ..... I offer an alternative in which armies must be sustained by the countries income and not by magical infusions of cash granted by what is essentially clicking.... not analysis or luck or skill but by clicking many times against a passive enemy.... as it is a few people known as the vets can tolerate the mind numbing raiding as they get enough of a kick by simply being untouchable by being the premier players in a game while the average player doesn't have much exciting stuff going on and is also not getting much kicks from being a multi planetary empire alas they fade out from boredom hence why the game has a small player base.... thoughts? |
| Gr4yFox | Monday, December 16, 2013 - 04:46 am
....Hold on you come on here & post this very well thought out piece of garbage!
Come on raiding is literally all that left for any player to fully get some bang
for his/her buck, now even that is being shortened so damn low to the point may be one
will soon find even it too be not worth doing anymore either.
And honestly econ it not my strong suit, but i do alright..that being said the way
you laid this out i doubt anyone will agree, at least IMO.
|
| johndoe677 | Monday, December 16, 2013 - 05:38 am
raiding is indeed very profitable grayfox thanks for pointing that out..... like you said about the only way to make lots of money.... this means that only players who can endure the mind numbing task of raiding will be successful in terms of having lots of assets including military ones which is kind of a sad state of things..... you think you benefit from raiding but you forget that there's a few players whom you will never be on par with and a bunch of players who are on par with you and the majority of players who don't even bother and quit.... as it turns out grayfox people don't need to agree with me only andy does..... and recently he has been decreasing the size of money from raiding.... in fact decreasing the whole size of the game from unit sizes to prices to Corp values ..... and I just wanted to tell him that I think he should pick up the pace and make the game more realistic....... corps should be the main source of income.... not raiding |
| johndoe677 | Monday, December 16, 2013 - 05:41 am
to further elaborate on what I mean by this
"you think you benefit from raiding but you forget that there's a few players whom you will never be on par with and a bunch of players who are on par with you and the majority of players who don't even bother and quit"
basically large disparities between the level of players can exist simply on how much they raid and it basically decreases the pool of players with whom you compete with |
| Gr4yFox | Monday, December 16, 2013 - 06:06 am
To further elaborate on what i meant
"raiding is not mind numbing it's actually a pretty good stress reliever for me"
and of course there is & always have been large "disparities" between players who
who put in the work & enjoy a vital core aspect of the game so yeah i get what you're
saying, but that is not a good enough reason to set out on crusade against raiding.
and what really got me a little upset is the fact you are cheering for andy to do more
damage to C3 wars, hmm i had no idea you supported hurting my ability to earn. |
| johndoe677 | Monday, December 16, 2013 - 07:57 am
if you relieve stress by c3 raiding I would reccomend other pursuits like drug use exercise and socializing maybe some TV or something
disparities between players should exists but not because one managed to put in enough clicks to raid 10 c3 s while another was stuck with 1
it is a non-skill part of the game and shouldn't be the most important income source
it doesn't hurt your ability to earn as it affects everyone equally and there will always be other ways to earn money
I would like to see the GM institute more economy development and forget about the dull warring against computers |
| James the Fair | Monday, December 16, 2013 - 04:26 pm
"we should get rid of the system in which people can sustain unrealisticly large armies simply by c3 raiding" Quote
I agree with you on this as I KNOW this is a fact since a few people have told me they do this just to sustain a huge army, while the cash flow of their countries are just dwindling all the time.
Besides I personally think that C3 raiding is to blame for upsetting much of the disparity and balance we have here. If it was stopped tomorrow, I would expect all those highly militarized players to cut back on their army tremendously or even indeed quit this game.
Again I agree that more economy development is needed to prevent the unrealistic C3 raids of where money just magically appears out of nowhere. |
| SuperSoldierRCP | Monday, December 16, 2013 - 05:00 pm
again this is noobs talking without having any experience.
In the war levels YOU LOSE MONEY!!!
It costs me about 110,000 anti air missile just to clear the helis. If i buy them at base price and 300Q it costs me around 3T.
War level 11 wings are 450Q and garrisons are 500Q and i only make 6.6T
Half of my income is spend on just air defence, i still have to clear garrisons/stealth and destory targets all and all theres no money. Ive talked to a few others at 10/11 YOUR LUCKY to make money.
So please to all you players with your WISDOM of what the upper level players are doing, move up the war levels before you tell me that i make to much money.
If you want to change the game help me lobby for weapons that come off the world market.
I have ALWAYS said that all the weapons used in a C3 should come off the world market. That way it creates a demand and gives players a reward other then cash, after every war no matter what a large amount of weapons/ammo will be destroyed but the gains will be big and those who have big armies will be people who are earning them |
| Gr4yFox | Monday, December 16, 2013 - 06:22 pm
Thank's @supersoldierRCP, for providing a healthy dose of common sense. |
| Rage Fury | Monday, December 16, 2013 - 10:37 pm
Dunno about the raiding part as raiding doesn't interest me, but I am not opposed to more economy development. |
| Space313 | Monday, December 16, 2013 - 11:46 pm
Why? Raiding is probably the only reason I would play. If I grow my economy like a "normal" player would, it would take AGES. It takes too long, and it takes skill to win wars and increase your efficiency in war as well. Sometimes you HAVE to have a military, such as Fearless Blue, and people will be FORCED to resort to raiding for their country's survival. |
| johndoe677 | Tuesday, December 17, 2013 - 01:10 am
hey supersoldier we aren't noobs... atleast I'm not
considering you're the one who went up the war levels in the first place in makes me question who has the wisdom in this game and I dont think creating artificial markets is a solution either though it could be interesting.... what happens when someone declares a bunch of wars creates huge demand and lets the wars end.... do the c3s sell it back? it would be easy to manipulate
and don't try to tell us c3 raiding is unprofitsble because it is though less so now then before
it doesn't take that long to grow an economy however you are limited strongly by population...... I think changes to the IF and allowing countries the ability to buy shares in corps (atleast in a limited fashion) would help this..... higher price ceilings and lower price floors aswell as quicker change of market price would allow for more quick profits (aswell as depressions) which would make the game more fun
it doesn't take skill to win a c3 war... never has and never will it is fighting a computer which doesn't attack you (stealth response don't count)
not sure why FB is a special case |
| johndoe677 | Tuesday, December 17, 2013 - 01:12 am
I have a good economy but I always use raiding to buy lots of weapons that I need.... there is no other way which seems silly turns the game into more of a chore |
| Jacktastic | Tuesday, December 17, 2013 - 03:39 am
Sounds like a matter of game style preference to me :/ |
| johndoe677 | Tuesday, December 17, 2013 - 07:03 am
well having the ability to make trillions raiding kind of trivializes the economy side and puts players who think it makes sense to make more money from Econ at disadvantage |
| SuperSoldierRCP | Tuesday, December 17, 2013 - 07:31 am
considering I'm war level 11 and almost all of my account wealth is from econ, I'm pretty sure i have much more wisdom then you do.
as for my war comment.
-Start a war the game creates all the units needed
-Let the war play out
-After the country is taken over the assests are deducted from the market.
The player would get what remains, only after the war ends would the total be take from the market.
No weapons lost nothing taken from the market.
Dont see how that can be manipulated.
Also im war level 11 because at the time it was intro it was much more profitable then it is now. The GM changed the stats because new players like to come in and input "Their infinite" wisdom with no real backing of the upper war levels.
Id bet money your making comments and suggestion on a war level you haven't even reached |
| Andy | Tuesday, December 17, 2013 - 03:35 pm
The weapons put in C3 countries are all bought on the market.
The weapons that are left over after the C3 war is over, are sold on the market.
The suggestion that the remaining weapons will be discarded instead, is baseless. It will create a market for weapons that are then put into the bin.
I just miss the suggestion to put other products into the bin each hour to make the market more profitable.
leaving the weapons in the C3 country could be done of course, but then we need to have the country purchase these weapons with its own money which will result in C3s you conquer and you have to pay their debt.
The weapons transactions for C3 countries are paid for by the GM, the proceed of the sale of the remaining weapons go to the GM and the market is not overbought or oversold in any way. |
| SuperSoldierRCP | Tuesday, December 17, 2013 - 05:58 pm
War starts - game tallies all weapons and ammo needed
Let the war play out
Two things happen
1. Player takes the nation the game then gives the player the nation with all units still left inside the nation, and the total number of all weapons when the war starts are deducted from the global market.
2. The war ends or is canceled at which point the game takes the total number of what the starting numbers where and subtracts the numbers of weapons and ammo at current. The difference is what would be used or destroyed at which point those limited numbers are bought from the market.
Only after the war is the numbers subtracted and even if the player chooses to sell the weapons back to the market, There would be a HUGE demand due to the fact that there are wings/garrisons of weapons that where destroyed creating this demand.
As for suggesting the C3 buy the weapons and making the players pay it off its impossible Andy. The GM has created a failing model.
152.5M(base price) per helicopter * 5850 helis (war level 11) = 892 Billion
If you bought 450 Quality that comes to 4 Trillion and the nation only gives 6.6T, You still need heli ammo and you still need inters and garrisons.
Personally if you gave us the weapons back and cut the cash holdings a lot of players would be happy.
If you gave me a bunch of weapons and ammo but only 1Trillion cash i wouldn't complain you could write that down and hold me to that.
Having weapons come off the market would
- People would move up the war levels to gain more weapons to build there armies
- Would create a HUGE demand every time there is a C3 war, a single war level 11 would use either 5850 Helis or 11700 Inters. Thats alot of weapons that need to be created plus everything else and there ammo. It would allow you to massively increase productions of weapons and drop prices making the war game MASSIVELY cheaper very quickly.
- Give more of an incentive then cash which players have been looking for.
- Would encourage more PvP warring being able to war a dozen times gain the assets then war a player would increase the PvP rate which is very welcome to players all across the board, Fearless blue would benefit greatly and i would expect dozens of wars to be seen very quickly |
| johndoe677 | Tuesday, December 17, 2013 - 09:34 pm
super I'm not talking about any specific war level I'm talking about all of them ..... I am at war level 3 and it is how I make most of my money even with a good economy.... my friends with good economys are at severe disadvantage to me simply because they think c3 raiding is boring and inane
if you don't make profits from c3 warring anyways why do you care if it goes down even more..... its not like going from.negative 100 billion to negative 300 billion would change your game much
I'm talking about my experience at wl3 ...... and I believe that higher war levels are just as profitable atleast or else people wouldn't ever go up war levels and it would be pointless |
| johndoe677 | Tuesday, December 17, 2013 - 09:34 pm
get your own thread for c3 buying from market if you don't mind |
| Andy | Wednesday, December 18, 2013 - 11:33 am
Supersoldier,
Your text does not describe Simcountry.
It is an imaginary, complex, non working and unneeded.
Please get off this nonsense as it does not fit our forum.
I explained how it works, several times and this is causing to much confusion. |
