| Scarlet (Little Upsilon) | Wednesday, March 2, 2011 - 06:51 am 
My welfare index is declining for no reasonable reason. This is empire-wide on LU. These numbers are for Scarlet Renaissance . . . what is happening!?
Education Index: 196.19
Health Index: 131.59
Social Security: 124.05
Employment Index: 94.50
Transportation Index: 136.26
Supply Index: 100.00
General Salary Index: 300
Welfare Index: 118.61 (and dropping) |
| Linebacker Six (Little Upsilon) | Wednesday, March 2, 2011 - 08:13 am
Seeing it on the lower end as well, John.
According to the graph, I've gone down a full point despite climbing indeces.
Perhaps W3C has decided that super high salaries are a "good thing" once again? |
| Scarlet (Golden Rainbow) | Wednesday, March 2, 2011 - 05:42 pm
The reason why I would doubt that it's a change by W3C is the same thing is not occurring within my empire on Golden Rainbow. I'm thinking there's some factor I'm missing . . . they're all Game Level 10 on both worlds. :/
Scarlet Citadel
Education Index: 268.26
Health Index: 131.48
Social Security: 124.05
Employment Index: 93.60
Transportation Index: 136.15
Supply Index: 100.00
General Salary Index: 210
Welfare Index: 129.64
SGR 001
Education Index: 202.49
Health Index: 131.39
Social Security: 124.05
Employment Index: 92.27
Transportation Index: 136.02
Supply Index: 100.00
General Salary Index: 300
Welfare Index: 128.94 |
| Psycho_Honey | Wednesday, March 2, 2011 - 05:56 pm
there is a 90 point difference in your general salary index scarlet, to add relevance to Linbackers point, and the differences you note on GR.
LU 210
GR 300
that is about a 33% difference. makes sense |
| Scarlet (Little Upsilon) | Wednesday, March 2, 2011 - 07:43 pm
The countries in the second post are both from GR . . . only the first post is from LU. Scarlet Renaissance on LU is at 300 and has a Welfare of 118. Scarlet Citadel on GR is at 210 and has a Welfare of 129 . . . this supports my point that it isn't salaries.
I included SGR 001 from GR because it has the same rough index values (i.e. no 270 Edu Index) as Scarlet Renaissance on LU and 10 point higher Welfare. |
| Linebacker Six | Wednesday, March 2, 2011 - 07:55 pm
Sounds reasonable, John. But, a one world bug?
Be nice to hav have more data input from other players.
Considered reposting this on General for a wider audience? |
| NiAi (Fearless Blue) | Wednesday, March 2, 2011 - 08:23 pm
It wouldn't surprise me if this welfare reduction on LU is W3C method of reducing profits from that world. Since that world moves fastest of all world, it does produce many GCs worth of game money. Cutting of some of the flood of cash from there would makes sense from GM point of view.
For us players, that change would hurt, since as ive understood, many uses LU to fund much of their things/costs of SC. |
| Linebacker Six (Little Upsilon) | Wednesday, March 2, 2011 - 08:29 pm
I've checked a few other top players, John, that also use a high welfare strategy.
It looks like everyone is dropping a couple of points. |
| Keto (Little Upsilon) | Wednesday, March 2, 2011 - 10:48 pm
In my empire on all worlds, I have some with a declining welfare index and some with a rising welfare index. All have different salaries, HI,EI,SS, etc settings.
Still looking for a reason. |
| Danny Miller (Little Upsilon) | Thursday, March 3, 2011 - 01:27 am
My welfare index in Miller is 126.48, and has been dropping for about a game year. Loosing 0.01 per month. |
| OsterTech (Golden Rainbow) | Thursday, March 3, 2011 - 07:22 am
wouldnt hurt to throw all your countries data into a excel sheet and search for the formula that calculates WI that way? |
| Psycho_Honey | Thursday, March 3, 2011 - 07:27 am
Thank those who proposed war levels instead of 3 secured mode countries.
Now you have players crabbing off the game on level 0-2 making all kinds of gc yet not putting in a dime for WP or weapons and making a ton of gc. At first I thought w3 hadn't thought that far ahead, but apparently they have. Since people now have an unlimited way to make money, it is practical that they would then move to cut profits. It's entirely terrible that all accounts weren't moved to level 0 and some were automatically placed at level 3. Exceptions made for some, then ignored for others. Funny. I like it. |
| Linebacker Six (Little Upsilon) | Thursday, March 3, 2011 - 07:49 am
To be fair, Wendy, W3C has said for years that one of their goals was to gradualy reduce the numbers of the game relative to population.
Translation: less money, smaller miltaries, etc. to what they consider "realistic" proportions.
Whether profits can actually be considered to be reduced or not is relative to the exchange rate of GC's.
One must remember that W3C has the tendency to "fix" things in stages, usually disrupting players first and adjusting later.
Another point to remember is that many aspects of this game are cyclical.
Remember how high salaries were when you started?
This sort of thing has gone back and forth for years. |
| Psycho_Honey (Little Upsilon) | Thursday, March 3, 2011 - 04:51 pm
Well, you are right Linebacker.
Remember unlimited loans. Treasurer and some other guy on GR were making more than 1Trillion bucks in loans and making a few hundred billion per game month in loans. Then came financial services.
With war levels, there are many many people, especially smarter and capable players with empires under war level 3. this allows them to make pure eco slaves and quite a lot of them. So naturally, they will do something to curb this easy way to make money. Especially since there isn't a way for everyone to take advantage of it. It seems like a loophole that needs to be addressed. |
| Linebacker Six (Little Upsilon) | Thursday, March 3, 2011 - 08:22 pm
Did notice my welfare index started climbing again. |
| Danny Miller (Little Upsilon) | Thursday, March 3, 2011 - 09:12 pm
Mine stopped dropping last night |
| Scarlet (Golden Rainbow) | Friday, March 4, 2011 - 06:11 am
Mine's still dropping.
To everyone, my suspicion is not that something changed with the Welfare Index in general. I'm having no problem on GR. The problem is focused only in my empire on LU, and I'm stumped. There must be another factor, but I cannot find it . . . it appears as though it has an empire-wide effect, but I don't know why this is happening.
Quote:Thank those who proposed war levels instead of 3 secured mode countries.
Now you have players crabbing off the game on level 0-2 making all kinds of gc yet not putting in a dime for WP or weapons and making a ton of gc. At first I thought w3 hadn't thought that far ahead, but apparently they have. Since people now have an unlimited way to make money, it is practical that they would then move to cut profits. It's entirely terrible that all accounts weren't moved to level 0 and some were automatically placed at level 3. Exceptions made for some, then ignored for others. Funny. I like it.
If this were the case, then they would just reduce the effect of welfare, they wouldn't randomly cut the welfare index in one empire on one world and not on another empire on another world. It don't make no sense. I legitimately believe that there is some factor I'm missing because that is the only adequate explanation to explain the seeming inexplicable difference between GR and LU. |
| Linebacker Six (Little Upsilon) | Friday, March 4, 2011 - 07:40 am
John, I looked you over and found nothing obvious jumping out. Nothing tracking along with the steady downward curve you're seeing on your Welfare Index.
However, I could only see 2 days woth of data.
The only question I have is: Did you notice this drop around the time your country hit 50mil pop?
This would be Scarlet Renaissance. |
| Scarlet (Little Upsilon) | Friday, March 4, 2011 - 07:54 am
Scarlet Renaissance has been over 50M pop for over 6 real months. I regularly transfer out population beyond this amount and have been doing this for about as long as the country has been at 50M pop. |
| Linebacker Six (Little Upsilon) | Friday, March 4, 2011 - 07:55 am
Strike that, John.
I am seeing the exact same curve on several high pop countries on LU with very different Indeces and set ups.
The only common denominator I can see is high(50mil+) pop.
John. I am going to disagree with you about this not being W3C related.
Check out some of the other high pop countries around and check out the graph on their Welfare Index, the one on the Social Security page.
Tell me that curve doesn't look familiar.
If it's that smooth regardless of player actions, it's game related and not subject to player manipulation.
If you had been changing anything, you would see some sort of vector changes between time marks, not that exact same shaped curve across multiple countries regardless of level and setting.
The mathematical probability of that occuring is infintesimal. |
| Linebacker Six (Little Upsilon) | Friday, March 4, 2011 - 09:53 am
You probably thought of this already, but go through the president's list, clicking on game level and pulling the Welfare Index graph up from the pop ups.
See a similar pattern to all the countries?
There are a few exceptions, Laguna being a stand out, but see how many are trending the same way?
Some are nearly identical to yours, but most are very similar.
This tells us that the same factor is effecting many of us at nearly the same rates, but some us are bouncing back. Keto's country a few ranks below you is nearly identical to mine.
We need to find the common demoninator between you and the others, but the only thing that I am seeing is population. However, there are exceptions to that as well.
This is a head scratcher. |
| Keto (Little Upsilon) | Friday, March 4, 2011 - 12:59 pm
I've noticed in scarlet's country some of his indexes were dropping(HI,TI), making his welfare index drop.
My country those same indexes were climbing causing my welfare index to rise?
Does this make sense? Wouldn't this index increase when the population sees a country is improving itself thus making the population happy?
Also noticed his migration decreasing while mine is increasing. |
| Danny Miller (Little Upsilon) | Friday, March 4, 2011 - 01:56 pm
Is it possible that corp tax rates are a factor? Any recent population transfers? Your migration index is dropping sharply. |
| Blueserpent (Little Upsilon) | Friday, March 4, 2011 - 02:23 pm
My main on lu has HI,TI and EI all dropping after adding pop but my WI remains steady.
In fact out of 10 countries only 3 suffer from WI in decline.
I havent the time atm to sift thro for a reason and compare with yours,John but will check later. |
| SuperSoldierRCP (Little Upsilon) | Friday, March 4, 2011 - 07:49 pm
Melichor
Population Size 80,982,234
Education Index 219.41 Health Index 138.26
Social Security 148.69
Employment Index 93.92
Transportation Index 190.92
Business and Trade Index 128.35
Welfare Index 109.16
The GM and there updates... In honesty i dont think CEO should be effected we build so much and half the time are corps are in Free players or C3 countries makes it harder on CEO to run corps
BTW guys pop trading (worker exchanges) or selling/buying effects the welfare index. Maybe that should be fixed (trading workers in your empire shouldnt effect the welfare) |
| Psycho_Honey (Little Upsilon) | Friday, March 4, 2011 - 08:02 pm
I've often suggested and rightfully so that workers should be managed 'empire wide' Meaning they would move freely throughout in the event of shortages in one place and no shortages elsewhere. According to pop of course. This would certainly reduce strain on the servers for worker exchanges etc. |
| Psycho_Honey (Little Upsilon) | Friday, March 4, 2011 - 08:02 pm
I've often suggested and rightfully so that workers should be managed 'empire wide' Meaning they would move freely throughout in the event of shortages in one place and no shortages elsewhere. According to pop of course. This would certainly reduce strain on the servers for worker exchanges etc.
Like 'one less process I have to worry about' |
| Danny Miller (Little Upsilon) | Friday, March 4, 2011 - 10:20 pm
What game level super? |
| Scarlet (Golden Rainbow) | Monday, March 7, 2011 - 01:28 pm
I give up on this. There's a lot of things it simply can't be because I have the exact settings and indexes in other countries off-world that have 128+ Welfare. I should have the same welfare index in my main (I changed the name to Scarlet Valkyrie) on LU as I do in SGR 001 on GR, but I don't. So I'm not going to worry about it for now . . . and if it doesn't get better after a while, I'll be messaging the GMs. |
| Psycho_Honey | Monday, March 7, 2011 - 07:40 pm
So much for running tests, eh, Danny? |
| Scarlet (Little Upsilon) | Monday, March 7, 2011 - 09:05 pm
Okay.
It ain't health, education, transportation, social security, supply, corporate salaries, government salaries, game level, country stock quality, employment, population size, tax rates, etc.
Let's talk about what it is . . .
1. It is a factor that is affecting my entire empire on LU, an empire-wide modifier.
2. It is not affecting my empire on GR. therefore, it is not a game-wide change.
3. The tendency is toward about 116 Welfare (a little below), up for some, down for others. A little over 10% change from the top.
I remember selling countries probably around the time the index began dropping so . . . this may be related to SSRCP's point about population sales effecting the index. Maybe country sales effect the index? If so, waiting should cure the problem, right? |
| CorporatePartner (Golden Rainbow) | Thursday, December 15, 2011 - 09:46 am
FYI:
"Education Index" is making "wild swings" for absolutely no reason now. In the past 7 or so [earth] days, it went up and down by 20-30 points several times, now the most recent is a sudden drop of 50-60 points.
No changes to facilitiy amounts during this time.
No closures.
No worker shortages within all levels.
No population changes.
No loans taken.
No monthly losses (country makes profits).
No hiring problems (all corporations at 100% hiring).
No automated "Help" or "Beginner" settings checked.
Country is basically sitting there, not doing much. |
| maclean (Kebir Blue) | Thursday, December 15, 2011 - 11:55 am
CP: My empire on KB seems lately to suffer these same swings re: education. |
| WitchyPoo (Fearless Blue) | Thursday, December 15, 2011 - 06:36 pm
suddenly high level managers seemed to have disappeared in most all my countries that had a healthy number sitting in reserve. This has stalled my my efforts to increase my health and education indexes where needed. The game will take a few real days to begin producing any surplus of these workers so I can resume improving these numbers. |
