| Petra Arkanian (Little Upsilon) | Monday, March 16, 2009 - 02:17 am 
This morning members of SNA and Valde woke to find war declarations and war treaties activated between the two feds. It later came to light that these happened as result of a misfire/joke/whatever. Regardless of the original cause, it was agreed by both sides the decs would expire.
I know for one that Valde got messages from our fed leaders to stand down. SNA also tells me they agreed via MSN conference to NOT attack.
One member, Pathetic Sheep, who was present at said conference, as verified for me by other SNA members, has taken it upon himself to paint L3thal's countries.
This is an act of aggression however you look at it.
It is a basic tenet between players that once you agree to let decs expire you take no more aggressive action. In a sense, it is a short term NAP, and rests on the mutual trust between the two sides. Once violated, it is difficult to recover, and offenders need to be dealt with.
Accordingly, I have declared on Pathetic Sheep's countries, along with Jason, who has proven himself and LDI compatriots to Valde in a time of surprise and need. Several other players have declared war as well.
Let me say for the record that I am only interested in the violation that Pathetic Sheep has committed when it was explicit that all sides were standing down. I reiterate: Painting is an agressive action however you look at it. I also feel confident in speaking for Valde when I say we do not wish a full scale war with SNA over this matter.
Several SNA members have expressed displeasure over Pathetic Sheep's actions. I have been informed they are in the process of evicting him over these actions.
I personally intend on carrying through with my war declarations; however ONLY against pathetic sheep OR against any new incoming acts.
I also look forward to hearing SNA's official response on this topic, and would like to state they have been most gracious on MSN and quick to action on this matter. Thank you.
Gentlemen, Ladies, Good day.
EDIT: I've been asked to clarify what "incoming acts" means. This does NOT mean war treaty activations. This means someone firing a weapon at us or painting.
If someone declares manually before they are informed of the situation, they should contact their fed leaders immediately and the declarations will be ignored. |
| Stuart Taylor (Little Upsilon) | Monday, March 16, 2009 - 02:21 am
I too have decd on PS.
Having spoken to senior SNA members, they have assured us that this will go no further and I can concour that they agreed to our actions to protect one of our members.
The actions of PS are unlawful, and will be dealt with. Knowing that we have the backing of SNA gives us peace of mind that this will not turn into a world war.
Thankyou. |
| jason (Little Upsilon) | Monday, March 16, 2009 - 02:22 am
LDI stands with Valde on this! Pathetic Sheep is pwned. |
| Beast (Little Upsilon) | Monday, March 16, 2009 - 02:34 am
All SNA members please contact me at 'Trivia Night' if you have any questions. Keto and I talked with members in Valde and LDI.
All that is said above is true. |
| Kevin Henry (Little Upsilon) | Monday, March 16, 2009 - 03:14 am
Pathetic Sheep violated numerous directives from SNA and attacked a VS member. Obviously, this action cannot, and will not, be tolerated. Pathetic Sheep will pay a steep price for his actions.
Also, I would like to thank the members of SNA, who have been completely supportive during every step of this process. Second, thank you to the members of LDI who have aligned with us for this incident. |
| TuCulo EsMio (Little Upsilon) | Monday, March 16, 2009 - 04:14 am
\Watches closely from the side lines... |
| ShcyzMattiCa (Little Upsilon) | Monday, March 16, 2009 - 04:16 am
LoL, I thought it was goin down.
And once again . . .
. . . it is NOT all MY fault. |
| TuCulo EsMio (Little Upsilon) | Monday, March 16, 2009 - 04:18 am
Wendy when will you learn... Its always all your fault. havent you figured that out yet. LOL |
| ShcyzMattiCa (Little Upsilon) | Monday, March 16, 2009 - 04:22 am
Is that why you guys are surrounding me?
We've done this before, hopefully it won't happen again, now THAT won't be my fault.
LoL |
| jason (Little Upsilon) | Monday, March 16, 2009 - 04:26 am
i'd ask for terms from us if i was you wendy. |
| ShcyzMattiCa (Little Upsilon) | Monday, March 16, 2009 - 04:27 am
Why would I do that?
Ya'll really want me to come back? |
| TuCulo EsMio (Little Upsilon) | Monday, March 16, 2009 - 04:28 am
lol, im just joking with you wnedy. Im really not up on any of this. I should be quiet or I may just make this worse. |
| jason (Little Upsilon) | Monday, March 16, 2009 - 04:28 am
bring it if you think you can. we will beat you down some more if you like wendy. |
| Jack Frost (Little Upsilon) | Monday, March 16, 2009 - 04:31 am
I have dec'd on Pathetic Sheep, and I watched in rejoice as the counter dec's popped up on my laptop and my phone, as long as no shots are fired from them I will ignore.
With Regards,
Dragoon |
| Johanas Bilderburg (Little Upsilon) | Monday, March 16, 2009 - 04:50 am
No one is surrounding anyone.
No one is starting anything with Wendy.
I think we have had enough conflict on Lacerta to last for a while. |
| ShcyzMattiCa (Little Upsilon) | Monday, March 16, 2009 - 05:04 am
Is that a >>Promise<< Sam? |
| Keith Allaire (Little Upsilon) | Monday, March 16, 2009 - 05:29 am
everyone is so jumpy this evening...  |
| Pathetic Sheep (Little Upsilon) | Monday, March 16, 2009 - 08:21 am
Shcyzma you should declare while you still can. I think I am approaching the upper limit.
The idea that "painting is an aggressive act" is strange and abnormal. Moving fleets within range, declaring war on nearby CCCs, deploying offensive units and an extended list of actions could all be categorized as similar or the same as moving SF units around. You are welcome to your own opinions and may feel free to share them with me. Although opinions from to many people might not get a prompt response.
SNA's response to an attack on one of its members was rather pathetic. The order sent out was to "buy protection" and stockpile weapons ["hunker down"]. My empire was mostly in its own fed and the name will change whenever the voting time passes.
There was no clear mandate or orders from SNA. I am not denying that a conversation may have occurred. I was not privy to the details. It is not clear who is currently chairing SNA. None of the possibilities gave recognizable orders. I don't know priest but I suspect this episode will embarrass him when he comes gets back.
I talked to L3thalserph on MSN. I see no reason to believe that either of us have a conflict. My impression from Stuart was that he was either drunk, sleep deprived. Probably a combination. If you got an order from Stuart you might want to ask for a clarification when he wakes up. L3thalserph seams to believe my response to his war declarations would have been correct if the war had been serious.
It still is not clear to me if "the joke" was taking keto's countries or just declaring on keto's countries. The humor level is roughly equivalent. Note that April first is approaching and SNA has now stated a new policy and will not retaliate against comedians.
LDI, of course, can declare on anyone they want. There is no relationship with the L3thalserph incident. Since the war with L3thalserph is not happening I will likely have some free time. |
| Beast (Fearless Blue) | Monday, March 16, 2009 - 08:37 am
Sheep-
You were the meeting today in which it was established that Seven Nation Army would stand down and not take any sort of hostile actions toward any player in Valde. I have no idea how you can believe air dropping units into a country is peaceful, but that is not acceptable. Not only did this endanger Seven Nation Army's members, but it was clearly out of line. You had no reason to be involved in the war in the first place.
You told SNA you would message l3athal and ask him if he wanted to participate in 'war testing.' His response was no. There is NO reason why you should have been air dropping in his countries, especially without his permission. Seeing as how I would attack anyone who air dropped on me, I can easily justify Valde attacking you.
As for your comments about your previous federation -
you were never at any SNA meetings, you have made little to no effort to meet SNA members, and have added very little to the federation.
There is no room for people who disregard orders and the safety of the entire federation to pursue their own interests in SNA. Seeing as how you had no authority in Seven Nation Army, you making decisions on the federation's behalf was unacceptable, and your opinion on this situation unimportant.
Because there were members of Seven Nation Army who contacted the involved parties yesterday and began dealing with the situation yesterday, the situation that had arisen had already been discussed between the involved parties (Keto and L3athal talked via MSN), and would have been over had you not taken ridiculous actions.
Indeed there were orders issued to either 'arm up' up go into war protection, but these were precautionary orders, and a war declaration from another federation certainly merits orders such as those. Many of the more military-oriented players in the federation were contacted personally and informed that their services may be needed if the situation got out of hand. You were not contacted because you do not have a military.
Next time make sure you get your sources right before deciding to do something that could and probably will cost you your empire. |
| Pathetic Sheep (Little Upsilon) | Monday, March 16, 2009 - 10:34 am
The units were airdropped soon after the initial war declaration. They were dropped into an adjacent CCC. The orders to move can be given years prior to a war start.
The war declarations of both l3thal and myself were finished long before keto logged in.
The incident was a series of war declarations by l3thalserph, followed by a series of counter declarations by myself, followed by a series of counter-counter declarations by l3thalserph. L3thalserph and me have no issue and resolved any former issues within a few short lines of text.
L3thalserph would have communicated with me much earlier except that he was lead to believe he talked to SNA. He had no reason to believe that you (beast or keto) would not pass on information. |
| Beast (Little Upsilon) | Monday, March 16, 2009 - 10:39 am
.... sheep.
There was a meeting today. You were there. We said no hostile action. Is there anything that is not clear about that? This was PRIOR to you painting.
Do not try to justify what you did. You were told to stand down. You did not. |
| Pathetic Sheep (Little Upsilon) | Monday, March 16, 2009 - 10:43 am
The single greatest danger to my empire comes from me. I can deregister all of it. Someone said that l3thalserph was bored and that is why he declared on Keto. Unfortunetly l3thalserph wasn't actually interested in fighting a war to relieve boredom. That is easy to clarify. Perhaps next week will be more interesting. |
| Pathetic Sheep (Little Upsilon) | Monday, March 16, 2009 - 11:03 am
Was that while I was cooking and eating dinner with my wife? There were no in-game messages. Trying to scroll up is difficult because any new comment moves the text back to the bottom. MSN jams my computer. I don't know why but I can't use internet and MSN at the same time.
"Don't open fire" was said at some point.
The directions up, down, stand, and sit do not have a coherent meaning in Simcountry. If you and Stuart decide that "to Stand up" is synonymous with "to airdrop" that is fine. If you send me the definition along with the direction I am more likely to know what you are asking me to do or not do. If I don't understand I will respond and tell you I don't know what you are talking about.
To drive around in circles, run laps, or to doodle would all be reasonable ways to pass time while standing down and waiting for more information IMO. One definition on google was quiting a job. In simcountry that would have to mean deregistering. You may send that order and it may be ignored. |
| Messiah (Little Upsilon) | Monday, March 16, 2009 - 11:26 am
L3athal is not bored, i think you will find he is struggling to find time for the game as he is looking after his recently born baby.
How can painting not be an aggressive act? If the orders were given before, then you should have cancelled them once peace was agreed. |
| TuCulo EsMio | Monday, March 16, 2009 - 04:28 pm
If a player air drops a SF unit into a C3 adjacent to an enemy, then points the SF unit at an enemy and clicks within the enemies border, LONG BEFORE any decision to "stand down" occurs, then one could understand how a player could paint without really intending to.
Is this what happened Sheep? This is what you allude to above.
Having fought hundreds of player wars I can believe that.
I have no horse in this race but as an outsider it seems sheep is about to pay a price because two other players decided to act in a manner that risks war with the two largest feds in LU. I mean it seems he was coming to the aide of a fed mate and in the fog of war he simply didn't "get the joke."
An inside joke concerning decs between players of two large feds, with many players, without notifying all the players, has got to be about the most ridiculous and irresponsible thing Ive seen in this game. I include in this statement all the ridiculous things Ive done as well.
Am I off base? Am I missing something?
I have a soft spot in my heart for players who are evicted from feds for actions that may not be particularly unseemly.
Barney |
| jason (Little Upsilon) | Monday, March 16, 2009 - 04:29 pm
no Barney we all seen him driving around. anyway guys pwned soon. :P |
| shaun (Fearless Blue) | Monday, March 16, 2009 - 04:59 pm
seemed to me like sheep was the guy online who jumped to aid quickly and then with everyone declaring on him it was only in his best interest to be prepared to fight being totaly outnumbered and wat not...its not like he actualy fired or did i miss something? |
| Messiah | Monday, March 16, 2009 - 05:07 pm
If i started airdropping units into a country, then peace was declared i would certainly make sure they had no existing orders to start painting still. It's either stupidity or ... well just a lack of common sense :P |
| Petra Arkanian (Little Upsilon) | Monday, March 16, 2009 - 06:08 pm
I was present for a brief time in the SNA meeting, due to an error on the part of the person inviting people, who thought i was still a member of SNA.
I can vouch that PS was present AND actively chatting while cfballer, as well as other players were quite clearly and vocally saying to do nothing. In fact, I recall PS voicing his intention to drop SFs and paint (one reason I checked L3's countries), and it seemed to me this was the reason various SNA members kept reiterating to not do anything.
Backtracking and double talk won't help anything except making you look worse.
Does anyone else who was present remember this as well? |
| ShcyzMattiCa (Little Upsilon) | Monday, March 16, 2009 - 06:52 pm
OMG what a cluster bomb.
Sheep, I am not sure why you would prompt me declare (on whom LDI/Valde?)
I don't know what the heck is going on, but I will say that all these decs, coupled with recent movements and a rocky past with myself and LDI, has got me very on edge.
LDI "seems" non aggressive towards me atm. Jason quickly stated a willingness to fight. Seeing as HE is the one on my borders, I am unsure of what to do Sheep.
What I won't do for certain is have another war rooted in any kind of malicious intent or out of game rivalry that stems from chat or past episodes.
Because. . . . all that was some BS. Ameche left the game(which despite our differences am not all too happy about), I don't even go to irc after their BS ban. It all got way out of hand, its the past. I have scaled back gameplay time, and continue to lay low a bit.
What I will do is declare on any aggressive nations who threaten me or anyone I consider a friendly. Everyone is drawing lines in the sand. Here's mine; "While there is no bad blood between myself and Valde/CIS/LDI, I will side with SNA and involve myself ONLY if I am asked to. And from what I am reading they wish to stand down. I haven't talked to Priest in a long while actually, but I owe him my support. He has helped me maintain in other era's of the game. Everyone has picked their sides even if they haven't said so.
I think LDI knew which side I would be on should anything "really" happen. I still have not gotten a promise from Sam several posts ago. I assume that means I will be attacked sooner or later, if not later than sooner. I have been told by two members of Valde conflicting stories surrounding your actions recently against a few inactives or victims(whatever they are) was not directed at me in chat, the other member told me in pm that jason setup directly on my border for the sole purpose of attacking me at a later date.
So the question for me is, "What is it gonna be LDI?" One straight answer will do, I see that Sam and Barney are willing to bypass more Wendy wars, is this the official LDI policy or what. |
| Johanas Bilderburg (Little Upsilon) | Monday, March 16, 2009 - 07:43 pm
Official LDI policy is the same as always.
Defend the homeland against any agression.
Sheep is on my border. He gave reason to be kicked out of his Fed. Perfect opportunity to remove a neighbor I did not want or ask for in the first place.
Its not personal I am just a bad neighbor.
Will I attack you? No. I have no reason to do so. Will LDI attack you? No. Once again no reason has been given to do such a thing.
If you have an issue with Jason's actions the proper thing to do is message him. He is a reasonable man and I am sure you can work out something that satisfies everyones security needs. |
| ShcyzMattiCa (Little Upsilon) | Monday, March 16, 2009 - 07:51 pm
Thank You for responding Sam. Good then we shall all remain peaceful on Lacerta. I don't have a problem with Jason on my border at all, especially if his intentions aren't set against me.
Sheep, and whatever he does isn't any of my concern that is someone elses problem for now.
I am glad we are all on the same page.
BTW Ela told me you guys were NOT after me, . . What should I do about the one who did say you were after me? |
| jason (Little Upsilon) | Monday, March 16, 2009 - 09:06 pm
who was it wendy? |
| Crossdale (Little Upsilon) | Monday, March 16, 2009 - 11:08 pm
@Pathetic Sheep, We have never really met but I feel that if your going to deny the rules of my fed than you are no longer welcome so I must side with Beast on his decision. |
| Cfballer (Little Upsilon) | Monday, March 16, 2009 - 11:26 pm
Last night I felt that I and Keto let everyone know well enough not to attack Lethal and Valde by any means (including panting) so I got off to do some work. Obviously Sheep completely ignored what I told him multiple times! I'm truly sorry that this happened, but look forward to continued good relations between SNA, Valde, and LDI! |
| ShcyzMattiCa (Little Upsilon) | Tuesday, March 17, 2009 - 12:08 am
Jason I would love to tell you, but maybe this person felt bad thinking it would be me vs the LDI bunch, they could have been trying to give me a heads up. Or I may have been scammed altogether. Nevertheless, should I discover that this was done intentionally, I will let you know.
For now this one major disaster has been avoided, if I told you Jason and you got upset over it, (or they betrayed you?) and you got upset over it, we would be right back to square one.
I think its better left unsaid for the moment. I don't want to betray any trust or create any rifts. |
| jason (Little Upsilon) | Tuesday, March 17, 2009 - 12:21 am
np wendy. |
| Stuart Taylor (Little Upsilon) | Tuesday, March 17, 2009 - 02:46 am
Quote:My impression from Stuart was that he was either drunk, sleep deprived. Probably a combination.
No pathetic, just very angry that you had attacked one of my fedmates and ignored all other SNA members when they offered you advice.
I believe you have my numerous replies in your countries for this piece of slander.
Thankyou. |
| Pathetic Sheep (Little Upsilon) | Tuesday, March 17, 2009 - 05:40 pm
Stuart,
I was giving you the benefit of the doubt and allowing you to save face. I think drinking on weekends is normal and in moderation possibly healthy. I forgot some people, Mormons for example, don't drink. If I made anyone believe that you consume ethanol then I apologize.
I obviously did not smell alcohol on Stuart. There were no mispellings that I was aware of and leteres were not invetred. It is most likely that Stuart acts like a belligerent drunk while perfectly snober.
Wendy,
What I meant when I wrote the comment was that you should declare war on my countries. The "too late" would have been when 15 or more countries are at war. The suggestion was not a very serious one. I am not aware of any reason why you or LDI would get involved.
Messiah, Tuco, others,
There was a long series of actions any one of which could reasonably be called "aggressive". Both l3thalserph and I got the impression that our empires were in a unique strategic position relative to each other. L3thalserph obviously had a much larger army on the map. But not in the right positions. The circumstances presented an opportunity to fight a long and interesting war.
L3thalserphs statement to me was that he didn't think my countries were worth taking since his least valuable slaves are worth about as much as my most valuable slaves. He would gain nothing if he exchanged undamaged slaves for mangled ones. I don't know anything about l3thalserphs real world children. Spending time with children is more important than gaming. The reasons didn't really matter, I was looking for a well matched war with someone who could and would put in thought and time.
I don't point out L3thalserphs war declarations and in game maneuvers in order to point fingers and say "he started it". I claim that a reasonable person who understands simcountry would conclude that L3thalserph was preparing for a war. There is no reason for any federation to prevent its members from having voluntary interaction with other people. This is a gaming website so some playing should be tolerated.
If you butt into other peoples business you should not complain about having to deal with it. Stuart has legitimate reasons to complain because he had to resolve the same issue multiple times. The issue was frivolous and could have been resolved in seconds by other people. IMO neither Stuart nor L3thalserph should be harassed because of decisions LDI made. If Wendy declares war on my empire and then decides to have children instead, Stuart should not be forced to negotiate. This should be common sense. |
