| Stuart Taylor (Little Upsilon) | Monday, February 16, 2009 - 04:52 pm 
With all the game changes going on at the moment, I have today searched the whole world looking for inactive countries to raid that aren't in a load of debt to suppliment my income.
There are none.
I have just one possible target. It is cash rich and has around 40T in total assets. The country is a member of a federation with only his countries in it and the same for the common market. He has never been active on the forums from my searches.
One problem; This player is currently active.
I really don't want to start taking assets of other players, but with the current changes to the game, I feel that this may become common practice in the coming weeks or months as players try to suppliment their emipres income due to losses or shortenend profits.
The question is; What would you do? Would you raid an active player for no other reason apart from the fact that you want what he has got? |
| Zentrino (Little Upsilon) | Monday, February 16, 2009 - 05:00 pm
I think that is commonly called "greed." Most people frown upon it. |
| Grayson301 | Monday, February 16, 2009 - 05:08 pm
DAMN Stuart .... I Agree with ZENTRINO
that would be paramount to Robbery,
Strong Armed Robbery.
I just hope that someone wasn't me |
| Stuart Taylor (Little Upsilon) | Monday, February 16, 2009 - 05:25 pm
I know guys. And I feel bad about even thinking about it.
But the fact remains - income across SC as a whole is down so people will look for different ways to make more. Being as there are no decent inactives to raid, people will look as to what is actually available and I do think that this course of action will be more commonplace.
I am not going to attack this guy, but I was very tempted to do so for a short while. However, I bet someone else with less scruples than me will. |
| Jack Frost (Little Upsilon) | Monday, February 16, 2009 - 05:39 pm
Stuart... Sadly I know this target and I had probed him a while back to make sure he was active.
With Regards,
Dragoon |
| Nute Gunray (Golden Rainbow) | Monday, February 16, 2009 - 06:18 pm
I know Stuart is not talking about me as I have not been making very much profits these days.  Besides I think we are nuetral with eachother. But I suppose that you might want to warn that "rich" player Stuart, and even invite him to your fed for protection. After all I have meet some players who would go for the greed. 
Nute Gunray |
| Stuart Taylor (Little Upsilon) | Monday, February 16, 2009 - 06:21 pm
lol Nute. Its not you man. I have sent him an IGM and a fed invite, so I will give him a week or so to respond. If he dosn't - then he's fair game as far as I'm concerned. |
| Aqua Rainbow II (Golden Rainbow) | Monday, February 16, 2009 - 06:28 pm
How much are people on average making a game month? Are things getting that bad?
Aqua Rainbow II |
| Kevin Henry (Little Upsilon) | Monday, February 16, 2009 - 06:31 pm
"making"? lol...errr, oh...*sobs* |
| Grayson301 (Little Upsilon) | Monday, February 16, 2009 - 06:38 pm
My CEO's Total Profit with 99 corporatios is Total Profit 13.44B SC$
My main for this month: Profit 39,394.08M SC$
My first Slave 4 the month: Shortage 17,197.01M SC$
my second Slave 4 the month:Profit 12,091.94M SC$
My last Slave 4 the month:Profit 9,601.57M SC$
but I have NOT bought Anything except the necessitys.
................................................
Hummm ,
Grayson wonders at the wisDUM of telling Stuart HE made a profit.now that he's thought about it |
| Lelouch Vi Britannia (Little Upsilon) | Monday, February 16, 2009 - 07:15 pm
All wars is honestly considered fair game. the thing is you will then be known as.... Stuart Taylor The Pirate : ). Also Politically you won't hold as much ground as you did, you've brokered quite a few peace treaties as well as created institutions of peace and communications. Your credibility will be lower. |
| Stuart Taylor (Little Upsilon) | Monday, February 16, 2009 - 07:28 pm
I understand that Loki, and that is my major concern. As I have said though, I have messaged him and invited him to our federation. As with many other players on here, if they don't get a response after a while, they will take it as being inactive.
If however, he is active as his countries suggest and he responds - he will be more than welcome to join Valde Subsidium in one of my branches and will be free to make this choice. He will not be strong armed into joining us.
As mentionend previously, the thought of attacking an active player repulses me but I think that we will find this kind of thing happening more and more often as presidents look to subsidise their income. Perhaps I am the first to bring this subject up, but I can almost guarantee that I won't be the last.
I am basically a peaceful president who will not go to war without a good reason, and then I will still allow the president to keep their country after it.
Peace, prosperity and Justice was the motto for CIS, and is still the motto for my branches in Valde now - and that motto sumarises how I like to play this game.
Even when it has come to attacking inactives in the past, I have felt bad about that. The fact of the matter is that I do not like war without a good cause, and in this instance I do not have a good cause, but I have followed others rules where it comes to attacking inactives.
And I hate the thought of being known as stuart the pirate!!! |
| Zentrino (Little Upsilon) | Monday, February 16, 2009 - 07:51 pm
It seems to me that a player who is building an obviously nice little empire and not looking for war should just be left alone. So what if he isn't in a Fed. Maybe he doesn't want to bebothered with it. The fact the doesn't come to the forums only means he is not interested in the petty politics of this game. Some of us (myself included) enjoy the forums while other do not. I send messages to nearly every president in my region when they first sart. I get maybe 1 response for every 10 messages sent. So what if he does not reply. If he continues to play, maybe he just didn't like your message or wasn't interested in your offer. I ignore messages.
If we begin to tolerate even for a moment that wars against active, peaceful players are justified only to satsify a player's greed, then we have begun to unravel that which makes the game fun. I daresay it makes us hypocrites all as well.
Have we forgotten what we were taught as new players? Don't play the war game. Focus on the economy. Build a strong infrastructure of education, health care, and transportation. Expand your population and build several good slave countries. Then, and only then, should you work on the war game. This comes with time, work, and dedication. How many RL months did many of us play before building a strong army and preparing for wars? As new players, who among us could have withstood an attack from one of the largest armies in the world? And now, we sit here today to entertain attacking those players who have heeded the advice we gave them? Advice we once took oursleves.
For shame! Shame for thinking it. Shame for speaking it. Shame for doing it. |
| Jack Frost (Little Upsilon) | Monday, February 16, 2009 - 11:07 pm
Profits:
CEO 95 Corps: 40B - 50B
Main: 220B
Slave 1: 160B
Slave 2: 120B
Slave 3: 60B
Stuart must be horrible at the Economic side of the game as 2/3 of my slaves are war slaves.
With Regards,
Dragoon |
| Stuart Taylor (Little Upsilon) | Monday, February 16, 2009 - 11:18 pm
lol dude - i'm ok with it but I WAS running fully activated. Things are starting to level out a bit more now I have started do deactivate some weapons.
But, i'm still way down on what I was making |
| Lolosaurus | Monday, February 16, 2009 - 11:18 pm
I would consider attacking an active player, if I thought that I could win and that I could turn a nice profit by doing so.
However, due to Valde Subsidium's stance on attacking players, I will not do so on Little Upsilon.
People who are calling it theft should take a step back and consider that SimCountry is a strategy game and that defensive armies exist for a reason. |
| FarmerBob (Little Upsilon) | Monday, February 16, 2009 - 11:26 pm
Remember the recent changes to the war engine. Raiding will prove to be much more expensive than in the past.
It is a valid tactic, however. Every player is responsible for their own security. |
| Pathetic Sheep (White Giant) | Tuesday, February 17, 2009 - 12:00 am
Farmerbob,
Unless the engine changed again without my noticing it the cost will not go up, at least not very much. The way you go about it will have to change.
Stuart,
Simcounty is a competitive game. Prizes are given to countries with strong economies and high indexes. When a player scores high without a military he/she is taking a shortcut at the expense of other players. You can not get into the top 50 without bumping someone else out of the top 50. The markets, cash market and in game markets are competitive. You take profits that someone else could take.
A country which advances without buying a military could be called a cheater. I do not believe it is cheating. It is gambling. He/she decided to take a risk. There is a chance that no one will notice the lack of military. That chance was taken and you noticed.
Obviously you are also taking a risk. The target may recover and get even. He/she might have friends. If you raid an active player and it goes poorly you should not expect help from your friends. Calculate your risks and rewards. Expect a violent response and grudges.
There is nothing unethical about making an attack in a war game. I suspect the programmers will continue making changes until it becomes common. |
| Keto (Little Upsilon) | Tuesday, February 17, 2009 - 12:19 am
Stuart, he/she could be an experienced player who his ticked off at the GM, as are a number of Vets, who decided to lay back for awhile to see how the game turns out after a few RL months, with all the recent changes.
I can think of a player recently who was inactive because of RL personal issues, who returned to find a few countries taken from him by another member. How do you think he felt? |
| Petra Arkanian (Little Upsilon) | Tuesday, February 17, 2009 - 12:20 am
"The question is; What would you do? Would you raid an active player for no other reason apart from the fact that you want what he has got? "
Let me tell you the story of Badmudder... |
| shaun (Little Upsilon) | Tuesday, February 17, 2009 - 12:49 am
my 2 cents not that it matters tis a game we pay to play and should all do what we want to enjoy it whatever that means and thats why we can purchase war protection and are assured 1 secure mode nation and have a community of other players who can help us boycott and financially hurt war mongers
but i personaly feel economic strategy comes first in this strategy game, war is another strategy that comes 2nd as in real life wars should not be common but huge long costly and more for status and politics than anything else.
these war engine changes are to get some of the older players to disarm a bit to put them on a more even footing with all us newer players. they have had time as much as 2 years more than us for stockpiling ammo that takes hundreds of trillions of in game dollars not to mention real life time to order in small quantities for us.
ammo is ridiculous expensive and having large active armies takes up a lot of workers who could otherwise be making money... so ya i have weapons for defense but i aint gonna keep them all active all the time and it would be no problem for anyone with a 20m army to take a country from me other than the cost of ammo and time needed but thats why i am in a fed for a little added protection hopefully if the time comes they will come to my aide and if they need me i can toss in whatever they need.
but heres the kicker the income produced from another 20m employees would be 300b per game month ie another countrys income basicly...so if your active and use your army all the time profitably ya its worth it otherwise for most of us we are better off just making more money and using that money to stockpile weapons and ammo for revenge should we be attacked... you can really harass even larger players with a bunch of little c3s and use economic means hostile bidding get the game community on your side and boycott etc etc |
| Zentrino (Little Upsilon) | Tuesday, February 17, 2009 - 01:12 am
Economic players can't really "cheat" their way to the top and into rewards. Your level is calculated into your score. In the top 20, only 1 person is a level 1 and only 2 are level 2. In fact, 8 of the top 12 are level 5, which requires an overall DI of 100. Only 2 of the top 15 are level 3. I happen to be one. It is not, however, because I have "cheated" on the military. In fact, it is because I still sit at 84% employment after taking 3 new countries 2 weeks ago. I estimate I have had 20 private corps added to my empire in the past week and my employment percent has not budged. If someone could figure that out, I would be happy!  |
| Grayson301 | Tuesday, February 17, 2009 - 01:57 am
Heres a FEW things the Warmongers amoung us SHOULD consider Proir to Armed conflict..
True the WAR end of this Games there however,
War is the reciprocal and violent application of force between hostile political entities aimed at bringing about a desired political end-state via armed conflict.......
..at bringing about a desired political end-state .....
{Whats the desired Political End}
War is not considered to be the same as occupation, murder, or genocide because of the reciprocal nature of the violent struggle, and the organized nature of the units involved.
the reciprocal nature
{ Do they Have a Military to Resist you? if not then it maybe Immoral of you to Attack }
War is also a cultural entity, and its practice is not linked to any single type of political organization or society....war is a universal phenomenon whose form and scope is defined by the society that wages it.
war...is defined by the society that wages it.
{the peoples you associate with's mind set would determine wheather this is acceptable}
Not meaning any Fouls here..
But as a whole the world thought Japan during WW2 was Wrong, while they thought they were Right.
so theres some who will say yes to Attacking another with out any real reason other than this is a Tactic or this is a part of the Game should step back and review themselves.
and ask prior to declaring it ok .. whats my political reasoning,is it a normal Behaviour in the eyes of the people I associate with.
Tradeoff analysis theories
Wars happen when a group of people or an organization perceives the benefits that can be obtained to be greater than the cost. This can happen for a variety of reasons:
To protect national pride by preventing the loss of territory
To protect livelihood by preventing the loss of resources or by declaring independence
To inflict punishment on the "wrongdoer", especially when one country is stronger than the other and can effectively deal out the punishment.
While this violence is repressed in normal society, it needs the occasional outlet provided by war.
Sociology has long been very concerned with the origins of war, and many thousands of theories have been advanced, many of them contradictory. Sociology has thus divided into a number of schools. One, the Primat der Innenpolitik (Primacy of Domestic Politics) school sees war as the product of domestic conditions, with only the target of aggression being determined by international realities.
Thus World War I was not a product of international disputes, secret treaties, or the balance of power but a product of the economic, social, and political situation within each of the states involved. |
| Aaron Doolavay | Tuesday, February 17, 2009 - 08:50 am
@Petra, I recall the name Badmudder but but whats his story? |
| FarmerBob (Little Upsilon) | Tuesday, February 17, 2009 - 02:54 pm
SimConsiderations for warfare:
Is it profitable?
Will I get away without retaliation?
That was a nice discourse, Grayson, but SC tends to be a bit less collegiate and a little more prison yard. |
| Archangel1 (Golden Rainbow) | Tuesday, February 17, 2009 - 05:41 pm
Well, as far as the game goes, I would say that Stuart started this thread with the intent that he is planning to attack whomever this person may be. The reason for posting here seems to be twofold.
First, to preemptively try and control political consequences of the action. Essentially to try and put a positive spin on it before it actually happens.
Second, to try and judge what any political fallout/consequences might be for the action, possibly affecting the decision to 'go'.
This is merely my observation and only an opinion and should not be considered in any way a positive or negative judgement on Stuart or any action he may or may not take. I just thought it was an interesting take on the whole thread. |
| Stuart Taylor (Little Upsilon) | Tuesday, February 17, 2009 - 05:52 pm
A couple of quotes from me on this very thread.....
Quote:Stuart Taylor (Little Upsilon)
Monday, February 16, 2009 - 05:25 pm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am not going to attack this guy
Quote:Stuart Taylor (Little Upsilon)
Monday, February 16, 2009 - 07:28 pm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As mentionend previously, the thought of attacking an active player repulses me
The main reason for starting this thread was to guage any political issues that would arise from an act of this kind. You are correct in as much as that - yes.
But, as you will see above, I am not about to attack this or any other players just for swag. I can understand how people can see that, but very early on in this post, I did say that I considered it for a very short amount of time. Very short.
I have now spoken to the president of the country concerned and have advised him to boost his defences. Whilst he is not a member of Valde at the moment, I have offered him military protection untill his defences are at a half decent level.
However, the fact remains that if the GM's continue their current course of action as regards the state of our economies, this will happen. Not by me may I add, but others will use this as a valid form of boosting their incomes.
Thanks. |
| Barney Rubble | Wednesday, February 18, 2009 - 01:36 am
LOL, bad mudder. My neighbor on lacerta. He was a peaceful player since the start of LU, meaning day one. Had a few very nice countries.
Sadly those countries resided on lacerta during a time of great biblical upheaval. A few misguided zealots went on a rampage concerning all things "lacerta." Some "outsiders" had to meddle in order to suppress the evil that was unleashed! The zealots lost their leader and have been largely sedate since that glorious time. But, make no mistake, we await the return of the "dear leader" with glee and anticipation.
An evil queen, the true evil of that resided amoung these zealots, came a callin on bad mudder... he had been around for years and likely should have learned the war engine better. It was a one v. one if i recall and was no contest.
I was thinking the same thing when I read this thread. Bad Mudder! |
| ShcyzMattiCa (Little Upsilon) | Wednesday, February 18, 2009 - 04:32 am
Well I am just gonna step in and say something here.
Not that it makes any difference, but I am unsure how you all will react to this comment. But then again ask me If I care?
What is the point of this game?
From what I understand, it is an economic and war game simulation.
I agree that taking care of an economy is primary for anyone wanting to fight a war.
But the economics of this game are so ridiculously complex, and when you learn them(or assume you have), some sudden changes or changes throws everything out of order. So whaTS THE POINT OF ONLY PLAYING AN ECONOMIC GAME?
Not that its bad or anything, but fighting wars can be fun. Fighting them also adds another depth to this game than the redundancy of clicking endlessly in a futile to overachieve in a game that is making "winning" quite impossible.
I have seen some of these very nice countries on LU making an incredible amount of gc. In excess of 150 pr real month. My concern is, "How many gc do you really want to stash away?"
w3c has offered players who only want to play an economic game this thing called secured mode so that no matter who or how much war comes your way, you are protected from all out losses or even a way to pay for the game without digging into your pockets.
There are barely any inactives, if any at all left to take. This is a war simulation as well. Why would all of you only want to hit soft targets?? If you truly wanted to play only an eco game you can buy Sim CEO on some platform to play. If you play simcountry, you are agreeing, no better yet asking to play the war game as well. There is no one without the other. They coexist and money and or assets will be gained and lost thru one side or the other or any combination of the two. My feeling is more players should be engaging one another. And not for personal reasons. This side of the game despite what some will say, stimulates the game. It goes stagnant for awhile and then some major issue comes along and starts some stuff up, and its fun to be apart of and/or spectate.
I have not been fighting any wars lately nor have I really put forth a real war effort. The time it takes to build up and really go at anyone worth the time is too staggering to contemplate. At first glance I was very upset at some changes and things that may or may not break the war side of the game. But this works two ways. I have already noticed that once your country auto deactivates some troops you cannot automatically reactivate them. This will create opportunities. I also noticed that ammo costs should be coming down. This will make it easier to gain those huge amounts of ammo necessary to fight. Given reductions in profits across the board, this will make it harder for empires to keep active an unrealistic amount of defense while losing large amounts of money. This will further create opportunities.
War is fun for me, I realize it isn't for some. I feel for you, but its what you signed up for.
When LDI came after me, I was pissed, I yelled, I was mad. But in the end I didn't realize how much fun it would be, nor how those stages allowed my own character in-game to develop. I am no where as skilled or good as I need to be, but I also know what my capabilities are, I have also realized what my limits are. What is realistic and what is not.
I will make myself clear, without threatening anyone. The day will come when Wendy has achieved a level of skill satisfactory and necessary to fight even with the ones who are skilled at war. With every skirmish and subsequent boycott comes just a little something that will come naturally to me and I wont have to learn the hard way. War, and skillful execution of it, will come as force of habit and not a learning process. When that time comes( and it is fast approaching) those who get caught with their pants down, will simply be "spanked", and my thought will have to be, " shouldn't have had your hindparts hangin out to get smakked
Conflict is inevitable, defend yourselves. This is a game yes, but it does include war. Sooner or later it seems that the only way to get ahead is to fight or prey on the weak. The fact that Stuart even contemplated this act is only proof positive that this time approaches. Its happened before and it will all happen again.
Fight for profit or fight for fun, wanting to only have an economic empire will not be a valid excuse to avoid fighting sooner than later. Just my thoughts, try not to have a heart attack over it. |
| Zentrino (Little Upsilon) | Wednesday, February 18, 2009 - 06:07 am
Wendy--I kept asking myself why you hadn't replied. You did not disappoint. I love that you tell it like it is and always let er rip when you post. I'm glad we're not enemies |
| The Great Milenko (Little Upsilon) | Wednesday, February 18, 2009 - 06:00 pm
wendys a funny little teddy bear *hugglez* |
| shaun (Little Upsilon) | Wednesday, February 18, 2009 - 09:37 pm
agree with 1 point war stimulates the economy and if not for war the world markets would like like those of KB or GR or FB, that is to say less profitable for corporations as prices are not at max but then it works well for LU because of the fast pace we dont care if it takes 6 months for goods to arrive cuz its just 1 real day, would be 2 on GR or FB and that would be annoying. |
| FarmerBob (Little Upsilon) | Thursday, February 19, 2009 - 02:30 am
Quote:Conflict is inevitable, defend yourselves. This is a game yes, but it does include war. Sooner or later it seems that the only way to get ahead is to fight or prey on the weak. The fact that Stuart even contemplated this act is only proof positive that this time approaches. Its happened before and it will all happen again.
Fight for profit or fight for fun, wanting to only have an economic empire will not be a valid excuse to avoid fighting sooner than later. Just my thoughts, try not to have a heart attack over it.
SimReality. Learn it or suffer the consequences. |
| Barney Rubble (Little Upsilon) | Friday, February 20, 2009 - 01:31 am
Holy Crap, wendy sounds like someone I'd actualy like.
Did you recently hit your head or something? |
| Grayson301 (Little Upsilon) | Friday, February 20, 2009 - 03:15 am
I don't think Wendy's really as bad as she seems .. but the trouble is She almost sounded Reasonable.. must be a Hormone thing for her ATM |
| ShcyzMattiCa (Golden Rainbow) | Friday, February 20, 2009 - 03:48 am
Grayson ? Bad Grayson |
| Pathetic Sheep (Little Upsilon) | Friday, February 20, 2009 - 03:56 am
It is a good idea to spar with friends. Live players throw curve balls that the automatic systems do not.
Thinking of two separate games, a war engine and an economic simulation, is not a good model to work from. Logistics is a fundamental aspect of military strategy. It is just a war game. Or perhaps it is the simulation of a violent economy.
So long as Simcountry has a dysfunctional documentation most players who have experienced long wars or multiple conflicts will be much more dangerous than players who have not. It is in your interest to engage in a few light conflicts before matching up with a large empire or federation. You can choose the expensive route and bomb your friends. Friends give much better feedback and can set up detailed scenarios. Or you can find a target that gives you cash back and/or has a large population. As the pool of inactive players runs out attacks against active players will become more common.
There is a lot to say for attacking the players who attack active players. That maximizes the challenge and costs but may also be one of the best tools for learning the game. I haven't had difficulty finding inactive players and I have sparred with friendly opponents. If I thought that I would never fight with live opponents I would have quit playing Simcountry a long time ago. |
| jason (Little Upsilon) | Friday, February 20, 2009 - 08:04 pm
i told you barney. |
| Stuart Taylor (Little Upsilon) | Saturday, February 28, 2009 - 05:38 am
At this point, an experienced and well respected player is attacking a less well armed one for assets. And its not me!
Therefore, I would just like to say;
I told you this would happen!!!!! |
| shaun (Little Upsilon) | Saturday, February 28, 2009 - 05:46 am
who what when where how? |
| Aqua Rainbow II (Little Upsilon) | Saturday, February 28, 2009 - 03:05 pm
Who is it? |
| ShcyzMattiCa (Little Upsilon) | Saturday, February 28, 2009 - 04:08 pm
Its all STUART'S Fault, he spoke of the devil and now hes come a knocking.
Stuart I have changed those names around for you btw |
| Pathetic Sheep (Little Upsilon) | Monday, March 2, 2009 - 01:51 am
I intend to start attacking too. Problem is I need to deregister several countries, I am lazy, and my current computer is too slow. |
| TuCulo EsMio (Little Upsilon) | Monday, March 2, 2009 - 05:20 am
HaHa too much infrmation sheep.
Its like saying, "Im gonna be aggressive with one of you guys, but Im not ready yet!" |
| Pathetic Sheep (Little Upsilon) | Tuesday, March 3, 2009 - 12:13 am
No, most people who read the forums and think about defense don't leave easy targets.
I sacked a country on WG today. Country was inactive when I declared. Seams to have logged in since then. There are a lot of gray area between empires that are totally inactive and active. |
| FarmerBob (Little Upsilon) | Tuesday, March 3, 2009 - 02:32 pm
Active? Inactive?
meh.
Defend yourself or don't. |
| Petra Arkanian (Fearless Blue) | Tuesday, March 3, 2009 - 04:23 pm
About half the people who attack out of the blue just roll over and take it. The next 40% are woefully unprepared and put up fight for a few minutes before getting outgunned/giving up. The next 5% whine and bitch on the forums. The last 5% can actually fight back. It's easy to tell the 95% from the 5%. |
| straightjacketII (Little Upsilon) | Wednesday, March 4, 2009 - 07:51 am
okie dokie if you think you come under the 50% please post your countrys name on forum with 50% next to it,if you are in the 40% likewise,then the first 5%.the last 5% neednt worry.:-) |
