| Jeffcd1818 | Sunday, August 5, 2012 - 06:37 pm 
Did I miss something? I used to be able to set up an AF Attack unit consisting of Att Drones and Fighters, attack the defense of an undefended target with the result of destroying opposing Interceptors with my Drones taking the loss as opposed to my Fighters. I would also use Bombers and Fighters in combo if the Drones were out of range. This no longer seems to be working, where the Drones are not able to participate in the attack thus all losses are taken by the Fighters.Any insight would be helpful. |
| Crafty | Sunday, August 5, 2012 - 08:57 pm
0_o , not good. You are sure the drones were in range? |
| Jeffcd1818 | Sunday, August 5, 2012 - 10:28 pm
Yes less than 1500 |
| DuGalle | Monday, August 6, 2012 - 03:39 am
Yeah, I've had the same problem. Precision bombers shields still work though. |
| nix001 | Tuesday, October 2, 2012 - 07:58 pm
Wish I had read this before I threw a Bombing wing at the target  LOL Crafty just seen your avatar pop his head up LOL |
| Michael VII | Monday, October 8, 2012 - 11:30 pm
I'm thinking the Air Force in this game is just for show. I don't even send them out anymore, everytime I did they seemed to always be out of range (eventhough the aircraft I was using have a range of 2000-3000 and they were going only 351) and get automatically destroyed with no damage on the target.
What the Hell? |
| Crafty | Tuesday, October 9, 2012 - 02:26 am
So what have the GM said about this? I presume someone mailed them? |
| Michael VII | Tuesday, October 9, 2012 - 03:58 am
Unfortunately no. I don't like using Outlook and when I hit "Contact" that is the only option I get. |
| Gaz | Friday, October 19, 2012 - 02:22 pm
The same thing has just happened to me. My drones didn't get touched whilst my fighters got fokked up. Is this an error or has the rules change? Anyone know? I lost over 500 fighters at war level 2. |
| Crafty | Saturday, October 20, 2012 - 04:39 pm
I presume you newer players are remembering to have some sort of unit next to, and I mean right by, the target if you're attacking a neighbouring country?
It always was that AD would soak it up though, regardless. One of you should ask the GM to clarify.
Heh, if drones aren't getting hit, then maybe try using drones only...OK, it may take a while to take out a target, but it wont cost diddly squat.  |
| Gaz | Saturday, October 20, 2012 - 05:17 pm
Yes I had my LRD right besdides the target. But as you say my drones should be getting hit regardless. Only after my fighters were destroyed did I loose my drones so no you couldnt just use drones alone. Thats right it was fighters first then drones. Bombers still work but I alway preffered drones. |
| Crafty | Sunday, October 21, 2012 - 03:48 pm
Well, it was worked out a while back that it was in fact cheaper to use PB as you lost far less although they cost far more. Of course, whether that still applies I dont know, and with the restricted availability on some worlds and market price changes, changes to the war machine...have to work it out.
This still doesn't alter the fact that if this is a game change I dont remember seeing any news of it, but if it is a 'bug' then you must bring it to the GMs attention. I'm not warring so it's not really appropriate for me to write them, one of you guys should. |
| Gaz | Sunday, October 21, 2012 - 06:14 pm
Well bombers are hard to come by so wasting them as sheild's doesnt apppeal to me. If this is a game change then drones will be practically useless. |
| Crafty | Monday, October 22, 2012 - 06:00 pm
I hope not
If you had as many in stock as me... |
| Crafty | Saturday, October 27, 2012 - 09:30 pm
So no one has got an answer to this yet? Did anyone even ask? |
| Gaz | Sunday, October 28, 2012 - 01:56 am
I havent asked. Doesn't the GM read the forums? |
| Serpent | Sunday, October 28, 2012 - 03:08 am
Drones DO NOT act as shields against int wings. They used to work, but they no longer work. I have not e-mailed the gm about it as I don't use drones anyway. |
| sbroccoli | Sunday, October 28, 2012 - 04:55 pm
Why is this a problem really? It sounds to me like you used the drones as an exploit/contrary to the designed purpose of ADs.
It's hard to argue with a gamechange if that was the case. |
| Serpent | Sunday, October 28, 2012 - 05:40 pm
Im not sure players were saying it was a problem as much as they were saying that it was either some sort of bug or a game change we were not made aware of. |
| Crafty | Sunday, October 28, 2012 - 10:30 pm
Its just not right if the function of ADs has been changed without us being notified. It's not a very minor change that could be overlooked. It has obviously cost several people a lot of money and head-scratching.
So if it is a change in the war machine then it is pretty damned disrespectful toward your customers to implement it without any word from yourselves, W3C.
Thanks for your definite confirmation Serpent. |
| Matthew Purcell | Wednesday, October 31, 2012 - 01:55 pm
Well, if it's a case of range, why don't you do a deal with a neighbouring country to the one that you are attacking (and which may be nearer to your target than your country), to see if you can base your forces at a neighbours air base? You will need a supply wing and depot, but it will bring the target closer to you and easier to obliterate! |
| Gaz | Wednesday, October 31, 2012 - 07:07 pm
It's nothing to do with range. The c3 I was attacking was on my border. |
| Jonni Gil | Tuesday, November 6, 2012 - 12:48 pm
As far as I know Attack Drones were never intended to work as shields. We also haven't touched the order in which weapons in units get attacked.
When a unit attacks, the defense answers with the strongest available weapons for the job that are within range and points it at the strongest weapons in the attacking unit.
I hope this answers some questions. |
| Crafty | Tuesday, November 6, 2012 - 09:04 pm
It would appear something has changed Jonni. AD aways did get hit first by defense. I have fought many major wars and C3 wars and know this to be fact. Players are saying they no longer act as a shield to FPs.
So something has altered. Perhaps you could look a little further...Thank you. |
| Gaz | Tuesday, November 6, 2012 - 11:05 pm
I've played this game on and off for 10 years. Drones have always worked the whole time as sheilds for fighters, untill now. Im amazed that you guys dont know this. Something has deffinetly changed. |
| Crafty | Wednesday, November 7, 2012 - 12:00 pm
Actually, Jonnis statement that the defense points at the stronest weapons in the attacking unit would make sense of what is happening. I would suggest this is what has changed, maybe before the defense didnt differentiate between different weapons in a unit? |
| Gaz | Wednesday, November 7, 2012 - 07:33 pm
Yes I picked up on that but why doesn't the GM just come out and say yes they've changed it. Instead of being all cryptic about it.
I always did think it unrealistic not to loose fighters. |
| Crafty | Wednesday, November 7, 2012 - 07:42 pm
Gaz, probably because it's an unforeseen/unintended result of some change made, hence they are not really aware of it or say nothing has changed. |
| Gaz | Wednesday, November 7, 2012 - 07:57 pm
Well they are now 
It's worked that way for so long though you'd think they'd know the side effects.
Andy/Jonni can you's give us a yes or a no? Do you's intend to fix this or not? |
| Keto | Wednesday, November 7, 2012 - 09:22 pm
If thats the case, then the GM needs to remove all the useless weapons! |
| Gaz | Friday, November 9, 2012 - 08:07 pm
Then there'd be only a hadfull of systems left lol.
Is the GM ingnoring this or what? This is BS if you ask me. Drones have been getting used as shield for years and they've got very little to say about it ffs. This should be game news as it's a major change. Glad I dont have my old empire were I had millions of them. |
| SweetPea | Friday, November 9, 2012 - 11:43 pm
... |
| SweetPea | Friday, November 9, 2012 - 11:44 pm
Quote:As far as I know Attack Drones were never intended to work as shields.
This is one of the most basic aspects of the war game. You have to take down air defense before doing anything else if you are fighting a c3 or a pvp war.
Jonni's statement is about as shocking one could expect. |
| Samsin Valiga | Saturday, November 10, 2012 - 04:16 am
want to know what confuses me???!!!
i send out 10 attack drones on an attack mission
unfortunately they got destroyed
which caused 13 casualties!!!???
which means that for every DRONE shot down i lose atleast 1 soldier sometimes 2 how does that work out i thought drones were unmanned but apparently they are manned..and sometimes by two people |
| Crafty | Saturday, November 10, 2012 - 03:22 pm
The silence from the GM is totally unforgiveable on this one. Jonni and Andy have both said there is no change, whereas the players assure them that there is.
Its not good enough to ignore this and hope it goes away Andy. You may feel as though you have answered it already but not to anyones satisfaction here. Just saying 'nothing has changed' does not alter the fact that is HAS. You must be able to find and see the cause, so could we have an acceptable response please, and a reason why this was not declared in the game news.
PS @ samsin, I think you'll find the thinking behind it is that the ground crew that operate the drone get killed. |
| Andy | Saturday, November 10, 2012 - 03:56 pm
No change to drones at all and no weapons have ever been designed or introduced to the game as shields. defensive ones are used to destroy attackers, offensive ones, like drones, hardly so.
you may have discovered some way they seem to behave under some conditions but they don't destroy interceptors.
This discussion started with an assertion that drones attacked interceptors.
Drones never attack any other airplanes. never did.
we stated this before.
the number of drones lost, depends on the exact composition of the defense, and its quality, fed member unit within range or not etc.
quality is an important issue of course.
Please explain what the problem is, taking into account the facts as described here.
You can check the weapons document, to see what each weapon does against any other weapon but quality is assumed equal. |
| Gaz | Saturday, November 10, 2012 - 06:35 pm
Nobody ever said drones shot down interceptors. It's the fighters mixed in with drones that shot them down. The drones were bait as they were targeted first by the interceptors. Its been this way for aslong as I can remember. Now they ignore the drones and go for the fighters first. I cant make it clearer than that. It,s got nothing to do with quality you guys must have change the targeting system somehow? |
| Andy | Sunday, November 11, 2012 - 02:42 pm
If you want a good response, make sure you explain the problem.
Again. No changed priorities and no changes in weapons for a very long time.
The defense attacks the weapon it considers most powerful (or dangerous).
This could be the drones (potential damage per drone, quality of the drone and its ammunition, number of drones, number of missiles used per drone per attack) compared to the same for each weapon.
Next attack may be treated differently if the numbers changed as a result of previous attacks and the responding unit might be a different one if it is deemed more effective in the case of the new attack.
I do not know the composition of your previous attacks and the composition of the defense in previous attacks.
Unit sizes are smaller now than before, (all of them are smaller), and quality may play stronger now with more weapons and ammo upgraded across the worlds.
When an attack is prepared, all weapons that can participate are "collected".
A weapon that has no effect on a target is not included in the process. The weapon does not participate in the attack and does not take losses.
In case there is a weapon at the attacked target that can be destroyed or even slightly damaged by drones, all drones will be included and may take the losses (again, depending on all the parameters mentioned). |
| Crafty | Sunday, November 11, 2012 - 02:53 pm
Exactly. It would appear that previously the defending interceptors attacked the attacking drones and the fighter planes at the same time, so less fighter planes were lost in the first hit but several drones were lost. Several interceptors were killed by the fighter planes, then I presume the next round of calculation (is it 6 per attack?) would have a greater number of planes left to kill a greater number of interceptors as the interceptors would target the drones and FP again. And so on.
The final result being far more favorable to the attacker in terms of FPs lost to destroy an interceptor wing than if a wing of FP alone launched the attack. Of course it would cost many drones but this was calculated into it and the losses in terms of $$$ were still favorable.
Now the interceptors do not seem to target the ADs in the initial attacks, they go straight for the FPs, and only attack the drones when the FPs are destroyed.
This phenomena is new (3 months maybe?) and is not related to distances, quality etc and is found against C3s so fed-air is not an issue. All this information comes from several players who fight many wars with many different scenarios. So the only issue can be the way the defence of a country targets the attacking wing or some alteration to the drones perceived strength (Jonni said strongest defending weapon attacks strongest attacking weapon first).
I hope this makes it a bit clearer what the issue that people see here is. |
| Crafty | Sunday, November 11, 2012 - 03:10 pm
I see the clause "A weapon that has no effect on a target is not included in the process. The weapon does not participate in the attack and does not take losses." This would explain why the drones are not targeted because the attacked target is normally a town or counties defences and they have no garrisons (C3s) hence nothing for the drones to attack so the war machine ignores them.
However, drones have been used in this manner for as long as I have been in the game and they always did act as 'shields'. Maybe the change came about by changing the targets that drones are effective against?
I have no idea...just trying to help you see what has caused this change. |
| SweetPea | Sunday, November 11, 2012 - 03:43 pm
Yeah, apparently you can't target a few things with drones. When you do the news comes up as weapons were not effective in the attack line, for example in some extreme cases I used them to destroy corporations, but they seem to have no effect now. Could be the same for cities and towns and so on, but I have not tried that. |
| sbroccoli | Tuesday, November 20, 2012 - 01:56 pm
That message comes up even if the weapon does actually do damage the target, but very marginally. Maybe a rounding error? |
| nix001 | Tuesday, November 20, 2012 - 11:18 pm
How about a quality issue? I'm can't be bothered to do a test as I have already changed my weapons to deal with this change in the war engine. Maybe, because of the greater influence of quality in the game, if your fighters and ammo are greater quality than the attack drones the interceptors hit the fighters first? |
| Crafty | Wednesday, November 21, 2012 - 11:35 pm
If the FP and AD are in the same unit then the quality of the unit should be an average. There should be no distinction between the two weapons quality.
The only explanation I can see is that the targets drones are effective against has been changed.
It would be really helpful of the gamemasters to refute or confirm this. |
| Ashur Banipal | Sunday, December 9, 2012 - 08:18 pm
I used them last night and they worked. The ADs took hits while FP destroyed DIWs. |
| Gaz | Sunday, December 9, 2012 - 08:30 pm
That's good to hear. |
| Michael VII | Monday, January 7, 2013 - 12:16 pm
Another option is to first attack with drones only, when that attack is finished; then launch the fighters in a second attack.
Is that too simple to work? |
| Mizore | Monday, January 7, 2013 - 01:02 pm
*facepalm* |
| Crafty | Monday, January 7, 2013 - 10:46 pm
But Ashur, what were you attacking? It makes a difference as to if the AD attack or not and hence take int fire and absorb the punishment.
Michael - you completely miss the point.
Mizore - Be nice, lol. |
| SweetPea | Tuesday, January 8, 2013 - 05:26 pm
Lol Mizore.
I can't confirm Ashur's results. Just a few days ago I fought a c3 and to my dismay, fighters were being targeted in a fighter/drone combo wing.
It surprised me because I was getting used to using a high quality wing around 250 fighting quality and losing about 25 planes per attack. Seemed easier than recreating wings that get creamed because you have less weapons actually attacking an air defense wing with combo wings. Losing drones is ideal but if that is not happening, just go with a 500 fighter wing at a decent quality. And please, never use bombers to shield, that is just disgustingly wasteful given these weapons are no longer traded on the open market and have to be produced by players. |
