| Christopher Neuhofel | Friday, August 30, 2013 - 01:25 am 
Hello, I started a common market for my main country and slave country, Im starting to build in companies that my corporations and countries need, but im having trouble understanding the setup of the product offered / supplies portion. would be so much more simple to have it auto from each corporation to the next, and overall for my country yes? but it only autos electric power, and even though I have 3 of those it does almost 60% from one, and 0% from the other 2...
do I need to go in and offer each individual contract and then go in and accept the specific contract needed for supplies? cuz im kinda lazy and that's a lot of work lol
and im assuming I have to figure out the percentages by the production estimates? or can I just do a specific solid number to sell to another corp? say one uses 1,234 watts per month as a supply? can I make the contract for that numbe? or is it the closest percentage? and does that number ever increase as the actual production increases? or is it solid, and the extra production is free?
thanks for the help |
| madpraxis722 | Saturday, August 31, 2013 - 12:06 am
Just do what I do and set them all at a certain percentage offered down at the bottom, then after you set up the corporate/state buying from both countries go back and if the percentage offered and percentage contracted don't match...Easy, just click on the percentage contracted and it takes you to a separate screen for that corp where you can just enter zero and it will remove all excess goods from the market.
Not sure if that makes sense, but I just woke up so that's what you get... |
| XON Xyooj | Saturday, August 31, 2013 - 06:09 am
if you created a common market for your corporations, how do you set such that all products produce by the corporations be trade 100% on this common market?
or if your country/countries is in a common market, how do set such that all of the country's corporations trade 100% of their products in this market?
having hard time, that some of my corps produce what the other corps need by still sometimes say i'm short of supplies. until i have to make an offer from the selling corp to the buying corp. want this to be automatic, that corps sell and buy all of their products from the common market for them, and if none exist in its common market then the corp can buy or sell on the international market |
| XON Xyooj | Saturday, August 31, 2013 - 06:25 am
i want to be able to put all my productions into my common market so that my corps and countries are able to buy or sell in this common market
for every corp or country, is there a feature/option that say "sell all products/services into X common market" and also "buy all products/services from X common market"
or sell and buy any percentage you choose from the market of your choice? |
| madpraxis722 | Monday, September 2, 2013 - 03:02 am
Wouldn't you just do it from the common market screen for the country/corp in question and set all to sell at 100%?
I honestly haven't run a corp in more years then I care to think about, but it should be the same as country...
Even then I think you wouldn't sell all of the production because I'm rather sure it sets the sell contracts according to the estimated production, and since the fools can't estimate worth a damn and are always on the low side... |
| XON Xyooj | Monday, September 2, 2013 - 05:04 am
there seems to be many hiccups in this game yet to be clarify or fixed.
for example, one of my corp is at 100% hiring but not producing at least 100% because there is no "high tech services" material for its production
yet i have another corp that has over 5M of this "high tech services"
so i'm wondering why my corps are not communicating with each other, so that the corp that needs the product can get it directly from the corp that has the product?
if there is a setting that i can sell all the products/services of my corps into and that my corps to buy from, then my corps should not have "0" for production or less than 100%?
per the documentation, it says that if i buy from my own local and common market, then it would be better for my country so i don't run into shortage on the world market? is there an option to set that i buy and sell in my markets (local and common) first, then if my markets don't have or have enough of what i want then i can buy or sell on the world market? if so, please advise |
| Ragnar | Tuesday, September 3, 2013 - 06:32 am
The local and common market seems to be bugged up pretty good. One must first offer the contracts, then accept the contracts to fix the talking part. That works.
The devil is in the details of how for some reason corps will randomly decide to offer a new amount never typed in and not a percentage of production. While a little bug is cool...what isn't cool is not being able to set it normal. I think most of us have completely invalid offers out there that make no sense but the system won't allow us to fix it even though it always says that the contracts were offered etc etc. |
| XON Xyooj | Tuesday, September 3, 2013 - 08:01 am
yep,
had to manually make a selling offer from one corp then clicking the message to accept buying for another corp.
just just frustrating,
there needs to be a way that i can dump 100% of my production into my local and common market, and and extra or defficiency can be to or from the world market
beside that, it takes forever to see the affect of my actions too. the game month needs to be faster, on fb of 6 game months per earth day comes down to 1 game month per 15 earth minutes. do i got time to wait 15 minutes to see the results of my decisions or that i can only build 1 corp every 15 earth minutes? |
| Josias | Tuesday, September 3, 2013 - 04:18 pm
well, the first thing about CM. You DON'T want to contract all your supplies.
Supplies that have a high price tag, like spices, jewelry, and cars, multiply the cost, while having little benefit.
Supplies with lower prices tags, like HTS, Service, and construction. buying those at a high Q, or via your Common Market, will have much stronger benefit to your country, and corps, while costing less.
So setting up your CM to automatically grab all the supplies you need, is really more of a money pit. it'll cost you a lot more than it saves you.
The way to do it. Is like madpraxis722 said. From the offer screen, type in 100 at the bottom, and offer for all corps. from the accept screen, pick the corps you want to play with, and accept for those, and then from the Corp menu, select "Accept or cancel corporation contracts." And remove the high priced FMU, EP, Chemicals, HP and such from your corporations.
Further, do this, in contracting high Q things like services, HTS, software, or what ever, make sure to lower your corporation supply quality, from the corp menu. otherwise you'll be buying High Quality supplies, above what your corp can use.
For you country, same thing, select the low price items to contract from you CM
the reason for this, in you country, and corps, it is the average Quality of all the products used. the cheaper priced, higher volumn stuff, will have a greater effect, at a lower price. while high cost items, like boats, luxury items, will greatly increase the cost, with very little positive effect. Becauce their low Volumn, has a lower effect on the final average quality. |
| Christopher Neuhofel | Wednesday, September 4, 2013 - 09:04 pm
okay so to be clear, when im contracting from one corporation to another on my CM, I want to only contract the cheap items like services ect.. and have them buying the expensive items like power and FMU's from the world market? and as for my country I set everything to sell at 50% production and accepted everything my country can buy from the CM. should I pick out the expensive items like cars and have them buy that from the world market? because my intent was to buy my car needs from my car corp. and turn up the Q on that item for my country, am I now paying too much for the contracted supplied quality compared to the set 190 of the world market?
and if im 100% supplied from the CM to a corp. with the max Q average of 250, am I better off canceling those contracts for a world market supplier? or would it benefit me to keep it and up the quality of that corp? |
| XON Xyooj | Saturday, September 7, 2013 - 02:08 am
i'm still confuse, i thought the local and common markets are there to help you become self-sufficincy. but looking at the prices that i paid from my own common market, i am paying higher price then the world market price.
if we want to trade everything in our local/common markets, the prices we pay should be better than the world market prices.
i just want to produce everything into my local/common markets and buy from these markets everything that i need, unless these markets do no have what i need then i go to the world market to get them. if i am producing more than what my corps need, then the extra can be on the world market.
for example, i have electricity produce from nuclear power then this product should be cheaper than i could get from the world market for my country? if i produce more electricity from my nuclear power corp than my country's needs then i could sell this extra electricity cheaper on the world market.
on the flip side, if i could buy cheaper from the world market then why bother to have a local/common market?
higher quality products into the production process should get me more high quality products at the output, but my high quality products should not be higher price than the world market price.
if my corps produce very high quality products, more higher quality the world market, then why do i buy lower quality products input into the production process of my corps?
or if i want to reserve my high qaulity products to input into my other corps, then the products i get from my other corps should have higher quality. this is a competitive advantage by using your own skills/knowledge. |
| Josias | Saturday, September 7, 2013 - 02:50 am
the idea is to buy the high price tag items at a lower cost, lower quality, and the lower priced, from the CM. To reach the desired Quality level.
Your corps have a max out put quality. Try a test corp, and raise its supply quality to max. give it a little time to kick in. and notice where the quality stop raising. and lower it until the actual output quality starts to lower. i'm not sure what that is, actually, its changed allot, and will continue to go down, as the GM manually lower the max q output. buying an average quality for supply above that, is wasting money.
what you find, is that by buying your own high priced goods, you are over paying yourself. lol, hows that for making since!
the idea, is average quality. supplies that are used in a larger volumn, have a greater effect on the final output. and it seems that the largest volumn of supplies, is usually the cheapest. buy buying that high, via your Common Market, you can save buy buying low quality goods from the world market.
so you'd set your corporations for a lower base supply, 120Q, for a standard. and then buy enough high volumn low priced stuff, (either manually, for via contract,) to make up the difference
a quick check of my theory, buy a bunch of FMUs at 120Q, and manually increase the stock of all your corps to 90 Game Months, via the trade menu. watch both your profits, the cost of your supplies, and the maintenance costs. for this test, just run your corps normally, the idea is to lower the Q of your FMUs as low as you can.
As far as what, exactly, well, each corp type will need something different. Services and HTS, will need Air Transport, and probably Books. maybe one more thing. While AT can use services, HTS, and/or books.
coal uses services, but construction uses cement, and cement needs sand. and sand needs services.
the main 2 you want to have available for supply, are services, and HTS, and have some AT and books, to round out the base supply system.
not everything will need those, you'll have to figure out what you need, if you lower all of your supplies to 120, and contract enough volumn to raise the total average to what you want. some of that will depend on the strength of your own supplies as well. |
| Josias | Saturday, September 7, 2013 - 02:59 am
same is true for your country supplies
instead of contracting, you can use the trade strategies from the trade menu. and set the Q of any supply to what you want.
if you go through the list, considering that if you increase your country's supply quality, it will increase your welfare index. i'd do this, even if you intend to use CM contracts. just to look through.
yes, buying things like cars at a low q, will save money. how ever, one thing i'd recommend. build those car corps, and if you have several countries, try building a bunch of cars their. and compare the monthly supply usage. seriously, i'm really not sure it works that way, but it still makes sense, considering that corps would naturally saturate their local area with their own products. even if it doesn't work, i like to build my countries like that. building all the supplies they need, but selling them onto the world market.
some of the things i buy high, construction, books, HTS, services. and i buy low cars, boats, jewelry, AF, and such.
the cost of military services, is calculated into your monthly military upkeep costs. buying high will lower your monthly profit, buying low, will increase your monthly income. |
| Josias | Saturday, September 7, 2013 - 03:03 am
and here's a question about your nuke power corp.
first i haven't ever built one, so i'm just throwing it out.
NP is stored as EP. You can buy NP, and resel it at the higher EP price. If you self contracted low quality NP to yourself, and resold it. but then would it really be worth the effort? because you'd pretty much have to tank your NP corps to keep the quality low. but i think that if you didn't go over 200Q, you'd be ok. not sure what that'd do to your country supply costs tho
shrug
i guess the answer you need, is that you can buy higher quality goods, than your corporations can use. their is a max q.
the direction the GM's have been going, is to lower the max Q, output, and increase the required supply q, input to reach that. it used to be that 200Q supply, where way to high. you could run your normal supplies at 150-180, and have nothing but winners. now, 200Q is the optimal, with the max for state corps is like 20ish points lower, i'm not sure what it is now. but eventually, the average supply purchased, will equal the average supply sold.
buying the average of your supplies over the 200 range, and you begin to loose profit, do to excessive material costs, relating to less gain in output. how ever, buy reducing the higher costs, and increasing the lower costs, you can gain more profit, by maintaining a more modest output, with considerably less cost. |
| XON Xyooj | Saturday, September 7, 2013 - 06:14 am
@josias,
the quality concept does not make sense for some products in sc too.
electricity is electricity, how do you get lower quality electricity or higher quality electricity?
a hydrogn bomb is a hydrogen bomb, how destructive it is depends on its size? |
| Josias | Sunday, September 8, 2013 - 02:12 am
i follow
trying asking the GM on that.
as far as nukes, well, wouldn't a better nuke have better targeting, faster, maybe have high enough orbit to prevent counter measures?
what doesn't make sense, is every one buying at 180Q, and selling at 290Q, i mean where is all the 180Q stuff coing from? i doubt C3s can account for all it.
The game has a feature that vets refer to as the "Magic Quality Faerie." That the things put into the world market, aren't the same as what comes out.
An example. If their is a low amount of supply or demand for a product, say Fighter missiles. (This works wonders on military.) You can from your CEO sell 120Q Fighter missiles on the world market, and from your country place an order for those same missiles, except 300Q. and you'll end up selling your own missiles to your self, while increasing the Q by 180 Points. although this wount save you money, as you are receiving the 120Q price from your sales, and paying 300Q for your purchase. but it does allow you a method to stock pile cheap goods, and move them to your countries, over the world market, while increasing their Q.
their are many other uses of the supply faerie. |
| Josias | Sunday, September 8, 2013 - 07:39 am
although, if your planning on stock piling, i would say that using space shuttles to ferry things around would be the best method, and buy the correct Q to stock pile. it'll go faster, and you can do more, if you have enough shuttles.
shoot, shuttles are very, very wonderful in times of war. you can shuttle between your own countries on the same planet, and completely bypass spending limits, although, last i checked, any quality above 300 gets reduced to 300 in the shuttle. or was it 350? i forget.
also about shuttles, you can save money, buy building all your shuttle parts at min quality, and running your basic quality at 200, the low volumn, high priced shuttle parts, have a more dramatic effect on the price than the quality.
i guess thats the best way to say what i've been trying to say, high price tag items, have a more dramatic effect on the price, than the final Q. |
| Michael Wilson | Sunday, September 8, 2013 - 07:49 pm
Im gonna try this some day, common market is difficulty for me to understand it. I have set all my corps back to quality 120 and I will go from there. I am just thinking having at full quality output does not make any sense and I think having full quality output doesn't make pretty much high income, so I hope the corps I have now, will computed overtime back to normal with out me to start over. I am trying different strategy for quality output and income, because the way I was going, I sensed that something I am doing is wrong. So, back to square one again and go from there. |
| XON Xyooj | Monday, September 9, 2013 - 01:56 am
my frustration is that for some products i have millions being produce from one corp, yet i'm short on in supply for other corps.
may be i totally misunderstand the concept of local/common market?
because i just want my corps to buy from my corps as much as possible. if the quality i am buying from my own corps from my own common market is higher than those on the world market, then i should get higher quality products being produced. eventually the amount of my very high quality products produced from my corps will be put out to the world market because i am producing more than i needed for my corps.
this idea of just wanting to input low quality ingredients into the production process to get high quality products at the end, is not really an incremental process to improve the quality of the products.
if one of my corp produce 300Q products that my other corps need, then if this 300Q input goes into the production process, then i should get higher than 300Q product from those corps?
of course the quality will be max out for any given product, but that would be the highest quality for that product.
it does not make sense to keep buy 100Q products to input into the production process trying to get 200Q output, even though the 100Q is of course cheaper.
a common market is to lower the price of even high quality products, because you don't have the added costs such as transportation, market markups, etc? |
| XON Xyooj | Monday, September 9, 2013 - 02:10 am
another example,
i have over 16,000,000 chemicals, but yet i'm getting messenges that one of my corps cannot do 100% products because it is short of 20,000?
that is really frustrating, that i have to go to the chemical corp and direct sell to the corp that needs it. why is this process not automatic, that?
if all my stocks were in my common market, the corps that need would just buy from the common market automatically. why does it not do this?
imagine having hundreds of corps, and you have to mannually do this selling and buying for all of them? |
| XON Xyooj | Monday, September 9, 2013 - 02:22 am
in the "product in stock: buy and sell" page,
my guess is that the "monthly use" amount is the total amount of this particular product that my country use, and the "stock" amount is the total amount of this particular product that my country has?
if so, then i want to be able to hot say 6 game months of this particular product for my country, and any excess over this 6 months amount to be sold on the world market.
and i should still be able to withhold any product that i do not want to be sold on the world market by a tick not to be offer on the world market for this product. this is an advantage/incentives to be good in the game, that if i have millions of fighter planes and the world market have a very large demand for these fighter planes, yet i am at a war with another country. if i do not sell any of my planes on the world market, then my enemy cannot get any to fight against me.
competitive advantage is having what others do not have?
so common market is a competitive advantage, in that if i'm the only country producing a certain product because i have reach the game level that is required. i would be better off not to sell that precious product no one else can produce yet. |
| XON Xyooj | Monday, September 9, 2013 - 02:55 am
it seems to me that at how the common market now works, is that it makes no sense to have a common market, because i bought 5kg of plutonium from my own plutonium corp at $245M while the world market price is $164M.
on the flip side of this, you cannot buy plutonium on the world market though. unless you buy direct from other plutonium producers.
if the product cannot be sold on the world market, then there should be no world market price for this product? the price would be negotiated between buyer and seller, while gm just track the average price to inform all players? |
| Josias | Monday, September 9, 2013 - 03:20 am
think the difference, is that i'm telling you how it works, and your telling me how you think it should work, or want it to.
if it took 300Q supplies, to have an 300Q output, then your theory would work. however, its more like 230Q to put out 300Q, and anything over that is not used. the game masters plan on ever decreasing that difference, so that in the future, you'll have to buy 250Q to output 250Q. (not sure the actually number, just an example.) then what you want will work. that is if all your corps out out the desired quality, to produce the same out put. they could potentially raise above the max, but again, anything over the max, would be unused.
that said, the GM are moving in that direction, what i've explained above, is what we have now.
as far as the other features, and it truly sounds like you want new features. the ability to set a contract to your country, and any stock in your country over a set number, is auto-sold into the market. no it doesn't work that way, and you should talk to the GM about that. |
| Michael Wilson | Monday, September 9, 2013 - 04:18 am
do I have to have a common market set up for this to work? |
| XON Xyooj | Monday, September 9, 2013 - 05:36 am
@josias,
i'm trying to do as you said above, but doesn't seem to work for me. you are saying that i should buy all products from the world market when their prices are lower than if these products were on my common market?
i'm saying that according to games docs, it said that buying and selling in my common market is better for me economically. but what is said in the docs do not match the reality, because i am paying much more buying in my common market than buying from the world market. buying directly from my own corp is much more expensive than paying from the world market?
regarding the quality of products, the higher the quality of its ingredients then the higher the quality of the end product?
but then there are certain products that qaulity do not make sense as i have illustrated above regarding electricity. even for military products, a nuclear missle is a nuclear missle and what this product does depends on its size/mass.
it is not about how i think it should work, but it is about more explanation why things are meant to work the way they are in this game. some of the ways things work in here do not match how things on earth works.
the concept of common market in this game is awesome, but how it works is a mystery to me. if i produce my own plutonium, then i should be able to buy back for my corp that needs it for at least half the price on the world market price (average price). same for all other products in the sc world. i have not ever thought that there are degree of quality for plutonium either, except in this game. a plutonium is a plutionium because it always have the same chemical structure, and if the chemical structure is different then it is no long plutonium.
to make it easier, may be there should be cost/pricing factors such as if a product actual cost directly from production plant is $100, then the price at the common market should be $200, and the price at the world market should be $400 or supply and demand base? this way at least make sense to have a common market. |
| XON Xyooj | Monday, September 9, 2013 - 05:59 am
the meaning of "quality" is too subjective to be in this game.
on earth, a honda civic car is a honda civic car regardless of where it is on the planet. the only difference is that its price maybe lower in america than if it is in africa. and this price difference is do to distance of getting this product to those locations, or the supply and demand of this product in those locations.
i don't know what would the difference be a 500Q honda civic to a 100Q honda civic. do you?
the concept of efficiency in this game makes sense, because if your factory is more efficient then you costs should be lower and you would have fewer people there. |
| Michael Wilson | Monday, September 9, 2013 - 06:42 am
my income has dropped badly since I changed the quality, but why should I have to adjust the quality manually instead of automatically, this is insane. there should be other options. and 120 months is a long time to wait to just increase it to 300 quality. |
| XON Xyooj | Monday, September 9, 2013 - 09:21 am
@michael,
set your quality as low as possible, 120Q seems to work for most products. if you set your Q too high then you corps won't buy any of those products you need if their quality is less than the one you set, thus you will not produce any products so your profit/loss will be affected.
the manual labor in here for me is that i don't know how to set the parameters for my corps/country, that anything i produce more than i needed then they would automatically be offer for sale on the world market. i have to manually buy and sell the products i have in stock. if anyone know how to automatic this selling, please let me know. i shouldn't be my planet's rank number 7 because i still don't know how most things work in this game  |
| Michael Wilson | Monday, September 9, 2013 - 10:56 am
@xox,
im trying the same thing as you are too. but I aint gonna give up on it. we shouldn't have to do the manually quality supplies. (that's the best way I can put it, even though I hardly make any sense at all, lol) |
| XON Xyooj | Monday, September 9, 2013 - 09:57 pm
@michael,
it seems that price you have to pay for products in your own common market go against the concept of having a common market.
it's like you have your own supermarket, yet you are buying from your competitors because they are cheaper than yours. if this is the way, then it's a great will to kill your own supermarket.
the common market needs to be such that you are buying at wholesale price, not retail price, regardless of the quality that you produce. such as buying from your own common market at 300Q should be no more than buying at 100Q from the world market, so that you would rather buy your own high Q products in your common market. |
| XON Xyooj | Monday, September 9, 2013 - 10:11 pm
the markets should have priorities, such as
for buying:
1. buy from local market
2. buy from common market
3. buy from world market
for selling:
1. sell in local market
2. sell in common market
3. sell in world market
so if i need a product, my perference would be proritized such as i want to buy from the local market first, but if the local market does not have the product i want, then shop at the common market next. if the common market does not have what i want, then go to the world market.
if the world market do not have what i want too, then perhaps is time to build a corp for that product. instead of just magically making that product available by the gm by immediatelly ordering which you pay a high price for. |
| XON Xyooj | Tuesday, September 10, 2013 - 10:27 am
direct contracts in the common market should not be with a specific corps, but buy the products from any corps in the common market.
the way it is now, of matching a selling corp to a buying corp, seems to be way there is a shortage if the selling corps cannot produce the require quantity because of its supply chain issues, i.e. short of workers, short of a specific materials, etc...
if you are buying from the common market, then buy from any corp, not a specific corp, so that shortages from a specific selling corp does not stop your buying corp from having zero production due to that material shortage. |
| Michael Wilson | Tuesday, September 10, 2013 - 03:07 pm
Yes indeed your right with high quality output. I have notice the difference after I dropped the quality down, the turn overs jumped. So now, I have set the quality to 175 quality to all corporations and see what happens as far as the cost of raw materials goes and the turn over should make a huge difference. Quality above 200 has killed it, you were right on that one, so now, I have to wait for the time adjust everything and hopefully it all should be ok once we find that magic number. With out hurting the corporation costs and low income turn over. |
| XON Xyooj | Wednesday, September 11, 2013 - 02:20 am
@michael,
i think there are still bugs in the game.
perhaps be easier if you can specific the range of the Q you want, such as from 100 to 200, instead of just the lower number because you corp may buy at 300Q or 400Q which cost you way too much as Aries already mentioned above. there is a max to Q, inputting 400Q into your production process may not get you 500Q result, so no point to buy very high price and get the same result as if you buy very low price.
also i've already mentioned above, it seems that it would be easier to not have direct contracts between corps in the common market, because you could have many corps producing the same product. direct contracts become drama when the supplying corp has supply chain issues, then the buying corp get nothing to make its products. even though you have a surplus of this needed products from another corp.
weird things |
| XON Xyooj | Wednesday, September 11, 2013 - 10:23 pm
doing common market contracts have driven my profit way down, i must be doing something wrong?
it does not make sense that the prices that you pay in the common market is the same as the world market price for the same product. if this is the case, there is no point to buy from the common market. common market prices should be half of the world market price, in order to be beneficial to have a common market?
for example, why would i build my own strategic bombers corp which takes a lot of my country's resources (workers, materials, etc), if the bombers that my country will buy from this corp is the same price as if my country would just buy them directly from the world market (correctly: direct trading with others who already build these bombers)? this bombers corp require that i build many other corps to get the materials to build the bombers, and you can only build one per year? there is almost no market for this product, but is the 2nd highest price product in the sc worlds?
there needs to be prices/costs differences to go from local market, common market, and world market? my A corp should be able to buy a product manufacture by my B corp at much cheaper price than the world market price for this product? |
| Josias | Wednesday, September 11, 2013 - 11:01 pm
when i was new, if any one asked questions about CMs, then the answer from a vet would always be, "If you don't know how to use a CM, then don't use it."
and they would leave it at that.
the context of this discussion only furthers that ideology.
if you are having to much difficulty with a CM, then cancel all your contracts, and set you corporation supplies to 200.
if you want to do something beyond that, manually buy EP, FMU, and HP at 120 quality, and manually sell them to your corps. as those are the most costly, least beneficial supplies, over all.
other wise, their is enough info in this thread to explore ASQ, that is "Average Supply Quality."
Xon, thing you have to remember, this is a Game. it can not complete imitate real life, but comes as close as the GM can. And they are constantly trying to improve it.
If you think that something should work a specific way, try sending the GM a mail, asking them how something works, why it works that way instead of another.
again, you must remember that NO computer game is going to simulate the real world 100%, and no one would really want that. |
| XON Xyooj | Wednesday, September 11, 2013 - 11:23 pm
@josias,
thanks for that short answer
many things in here actually opposite of earth economics?
it would be nice if the game could stimulate earth more realistically, perhaps not 100% but at least better than sc does now.
i read this game has been around for about 10 years? must be a real passion from the owner to keep it up for us
i'm resetting my corps over....but would be nicer to understand why works this way and not that way. i got at least an earth year to test out this game |
| Josias | Thursday, September 12, 2013 - 01:28 am
well, your kinda right, and kinda wrong
if i had employees, and i bought them all mechanical pencils, for 2-3 dollars each, or regular type for like what 25 cents each? wouldn't make much difference to final results, but one would save some money.
their are many other ways, in real life that a boss can buy cheap products, that don't do much for effecting the final production, or sales, while decreasing the cost. At work the boss bought a water trailer, rather than a truck, saved like 10K dollars, and the job still gets done, even though its a pain in the ass to the workers.
and thats the concept that i've thrown out here. that some supplies have a lower effect on sales, than other supplies. if your making Books, then the paper you use would have a greater effect, than the quality of chairs in the lobby. all tho one would think that quality of whats printed would be more important than just the quality of paper its printed on.
its one of those enth details that get lost in a Game. and a certain amount of grace should be afforded the GMs for such things. |
| Josias | Thursday, September 12, 2013 - 02:00 am
perhaps, as i'm thinking about it
if you had a use for say Industrial Eq, which comes in many varieties. How ever, a bran new tractor, will cost 100K or more, for good quality. a low q, or used tractor, would be half the cost, and allow you to preform the same job. And perhaps, higher quality services, that would be, better operators, and mechanics, would compensate, and keep the EQ running longer, and at a higher performance level.
unless you can figure out a way to buy cheap goods from your CM, the only way to get them, is via world market.
the problem with buying cheap goods via contract, means that you have to tank a corp to produce lower Quality, how ever, do to the game machanics, low q corps, just don't make money. hosing a one corp to feed 20ish corps, would be cool, but when your talking things like FMUs, you'd need one for every 6ish. so just trying to keep the low q FMUs via contract, you're hosing 1/6 or your corps. and thats just FMUs, that says nothing for EP, or some of the other stuff you'd want low.
an alternate suggestion, would be to allow players to run their corps like normal, but exchange High Quality, for Higher Production of lower products. Like a Cars corp that would otherwise produce 240Q, could instead, produce twice as many 120Q cars, with the supply, upgrades, and salaries levels. i mean, giving the option to the player to adjust that. i've suggested that before, but it got ignored. its one way, but again, its something that talking to the GM might be best.
problem with your thought process, is that cost, is still cost. regardless of the source. if the source in in-house, then its still a cost. and if you are buying higher than usable Q, its money you are spending, with out any benefit. You wouldn't expect a 20M Diamond necklace to go for 5M, just because it was made locally? No, the maker of the necklace will still want his 20M, regardless of the buyer. If the buyer would prefer a 5M necklace, he should look for cheaper product. Which may be of foreign origin!
as far as some products not really being realistic to have a Q level, like EP. well, i wouldn't say your right, but you do have a point. thats one of those things that I ignore, do to this being a game, and therefore imperfect. |
| XON Xyooj | Thursday, September 12, 2013 - 10:51 pm
@josias,
as i already said, that "quality" is a subjective term.it should be efficiency or productivity if we're dealing with the manufacturing process.
i agree with you that a 200Q ingredient should get twice the result for the outcome, if the normal 100Q is bypass for the higher 200Q. this would make more sense to us earth players.
on another note on quality, there are certain products that quality is really just a perception of the people judging them. on earth, you cannot tell people that their lexus is not as good as the bmw.
it is very obvious that an earth lexus car has much better parts in it than a toyota camry. that's why there are these two names to distinguish them from each other.
in order for the game to work better, we need to know the true cost (all the costs) of a product from the beginning to the end. once the product comes out of the manufacturing process and retail for sale, we know that its cost is say $10 SC. we should be independent to price this product from that true cost on. such as i have suggested, that the average price on the local market maybe $20, the common market maybe $40, and the world market maybe $80. this is perpahs the best way to make the local and common market works, otherwise it is a waste of time trying to setup contracts in this two lower markets. as existing i can buy a oil at the world market at the same price as directly from my oil corp, so why should i not just keep doing that?
why would players want to be in a common market together if all of them could get what they want on the world market at the same price? |
| XON Xyooj | Thursday, September 12, 2013 - 11:02 pm
business is not that complicated, it is simply that you have to price your product to cover your true cost, operating cost, and have enough profit to grow the business.
business owners who lack this basic understand may price their product at $5 even though they bought the product at $10.
there are price or cost differences, the farther you are from the source then the higher/more this difference is. |
| Christopher Neuhofel | Friday, September 13, 2013 - 12:45 am
From what im getting, you can build corps. that you want to use on the CM, like services, high tech services, etc. and since other corps use so much of that supply, a higher Q of it will affect the Q of the product more so than other less used supplies.
But is it even worth it to use a CM to trade those supplies? you are buying market price * Q and selling the product at market price * Q right? does having supply Q at 170, then trading across services at Q 230 affect the Q of the product so much that it increases the profit enough to cover the increased cost of the Services supply?
So far all my corps are spending a lot to buy high Q services, and other Supplies on the CM, but the Q of supplies in stock is not changing rapidly enough to show any increase in the final products quality. Still sticking with it, to see if i can eventually get the most used supplies higher, to make the product Q max out, or come close.
So far most of my Corps. are still running a high profit, even at 300 salary index, and in some cases, 1M+ in supply use per month.
Only those in an over supply on the WM seem to take a hard hit, like EP, took a nose dive from well over -5B supply and demand... |
| Josias | Friday, September 13, 2013 - 02:21 am
Quote:But is it even worth it to use a CM to trade those supplies? you are buying market price * Q and selling the product at market price * Q right? does having supply Q at 170, then trading across services at Q 230 affect the Q of the product so much that it increases the profit enough to cover the increased cost of the Services supply? CN
Yes.
how ever, their is no "universal" supply. Services are probably the one that works with the most products. but things like paper, with the 800,000 Units of wood being the strongest supply, the 15,000 services would have little effect.
how ever, try this. take a fully upgraded Air Transport Corp. Set your supplies to 120. Then contract your services to it. you can manually buy from the corp, to lower its supply, so that the new services contract doesn't have to fight with a large stock pile of the wrong Q. give it a week, maybe as few as a couple days. and check it. then with the same corp, add a contract for "books and newpaper" and you'll find that it'll do even better.
For Serivices, try contracting AT, and probably BnN and/or HTS.
then try what i call a "supply train," contract services to a Sand Corp, contract that sand to a Cement Corp. and then contract that cement to a Construction corp. |
| XON Xyooj | Friday, September 13, 2013 - 10:36 am
i was trying do a train supply system, but i think it just back fire.
i'm experiencing so much issues with common market because the contracts are directly from corp to corp, so problems with the supply corp will cause a chain affect throughout---no good
it does not make sense to buy your own high Q back into your production process because the resultant Q isn't much different, and you're paying higher price for high Q.
buy and sell on the world market seems to be better for most products, and only products that seem to work well in cm are those you can't get from the world market.
yeah, learn a lesson here, world #7 back to #18
trying this common market concept, and had to start from ground zero again. |
| XON Xyooj | Friday, September 13, 2013 - 10:37 am
and nope, i have not gotten any from the gm on my questions yet....about a week now. i thought that being premium would at least have them pay a bit of attention to me for what i said---doesn't seem like it this far |
