| Andy | Monday, August 5, 2024 - 09:29 am 
The price of Electric Power is falling quickly for some time and has now reached very low levels.
This happens despite the fact that the amount of EP that is produced each month is smaller than the amount of EP that is consumed each month.
The reason for the fall in pricing to levels that are now lower than the base price, is that some players with huge storage of EP are selling.
An exploit in the game, was used several weeks ago to creat money that was used mainly for the purchase of huge amounts of EP, wind turbines, weapons and ammunitions.
several players are now selling EP in large quantities.
We think that this situation will not continue for much longer although it can return.
cash reserves in a few countries will make it possible to manipulate the EP market for a longer period.
In the mean time, we expect these major sales to decline as the price of EP becomes very low and will reach the minimum level. It cuts into the amount of money they can recover from it. It also destroyed the profits from wind energy, much of it in these same accounts.
The decline in price has a positive effect on general profits from corporations.
we suggest to players with smaller numbers of wind farms, (maybe 10 wind farms per 1.000.000 in population), to sit tight and the storm will reside.
It is also time to make sure you are producing enough wind turbines to maintain your wind farms. With a bad market for wind turbines, you need one wind turbine corporation (producing 20 wind turbines each month), to maintain 20 wind farms in your country. |
| cafecafegames | Monday, August 5, 2024 - 08:21 pm
8 more billion EP sent to market. This is just ridiculous.
I worked hard to have my humble 550 Wind Farms and 30 turbine corps. |
| Andy | Tuesday, August 6, 2024 - 09:20 am
There was an offer of 8 billion unit of EP made by a single player.
By the time we saw it, it was already partially sold.
we have removed the offer from the market (7.2B), and are asking the player where the EP came from. |
| hodgkisl | Tuesday, August 6, 2024 - 01:07 pm
Seems someone doesn't understand how wind farms work and / or worked, with how long you could run wind farm corps with a shortage of turbines huge stockpiles of EP were able to be acquired with minimal cost.
The player I believe you are upset with did capture in war one of the top 5 wind farm owning countries recently, about 5000 farms.
Perhaps if you implemented what you say you will instead of just saying some day (long term players know someday can take real years) players would use the functions as you desire, but when the function has huge profits that will not be removed for a very long time players will use them, hence you get massive EP stockpiles and a very angry player base. |
| Andy | Tuesday, August 6, 2024 - 07:30 pm
In the mean time, we have talked to this player.
we understand what happened with the power.
not how he came to own so many wind farms.
we will look into it.
But more important, the recent events, and the situation on the
markets, did expose some weak point in the game and these are of our own making.
I think that the event will be fading slowly.
The maintenance issues will be resolved and they will have a slow moving
change in what players do or don't.
There are some errors exposed and we will fix them quite quickly.
I will not go into details now as these details may cause more problems short term.
I appreciate hints and information about errors in whatever way you choose to report them and I will take action ASAP. |
| Zentrino | Tuesday, August 6, 2024 - 07:49 pm
I don't know who the player is or how they got the WF, but I have a country with nearly 4000 WF and several with well over 2000. It's not impossible. |
| Andy | Tuesday, August 6, 2024 - 08:15 pm
If you are able to get the 4000 and 2000 wind turbines each month, that is fine.
The risk is in the price of WP.
some players place offers for large quantities and the price went down.
it could push wind power, for a short period, into losses. |
| Eeeee OOOooo | Tuesday, August 6, 2024 - 08:53 pm
About a year ago, I posted that with the state of wind farms, everyone should buy maximum. I have roughly the same type of distribution on Fearless Blue. Most of the time I logged in, I simply placed an order for wind farms. I easily built this number up and stopped buying maybe 4-6 months ago. My account generates over 500 million electric power per real life day. 15 billion per real life month. It's very common to see myself or other players dump 5-10 billion in a go.
It is and was extremely easy to get this many and to achieve vast stockpiles of electric power. In total, my account had over 70,000 wind farms (WG, FB, GR). Pictured above is my WG account that has not had *any* wind turbine focus or maintenance. Any other player who wished to make money with wind farms could do this (and MANY did).
Game changes in the last month have basically made wind power irrelevant now. It'll be a thing, but not something anyone really does to make profit. Players with wind farms will see no reason to delete them, but there's now no need for investment. That's not a dig at game changes, simply a comment that the profiteering is over. Those who had wind farms are now rich. Those who didn't are behind. |
| Clicks For Andy | Tuesday, August 6, 2024 - 08:53 pm
Yeah, acquiring large quantities of windfarms is quite easy for long term players, there has been over a year now of acquiring available and for a long time they were in surplus due to people heading your warnings, until everyone realized they were falling behind and you were not following through. |
| Andy | Wednesday, August 7, 2024 - 07:29 am
We indeed did not follow through because we did not want to introduce the maintenance issue without proper notice and without giving players the time to fix the problem.
but the warning was there.
Too many wind farms hard hard to maintain and will become much less profitable if not maintained and might fail completely if the price of EP will drop as it does now. |
| Clicks For Andy | Wednesday, August 7, 2024 - 02:47 pm
You didn't follow through for over a year, enough time to not believe your warning. If done within a month it wouldn't have caused any problems. |
| Andy | Wednesday, August 7, 2024 - 03:00 pm
I agree.
Maintenance of Wind Turbines was in place but we did not enforce the possible damage if players did not have the turbines they needed.
we waited for a long time to prevent a large damage.
The result was very different than we expected.
we thought players will make an effort to produce many wind turbines.
they did not.
we will now implement it.
the code was completed a long time ago.
we will soften the damage level a bit,
Introduce the measure and then gradually move into the full blown feature we meant from the start.
BTW:
why are you using a different name for that.
you now have multiple accounts and we know who you are anyway.
but...
I have no problem with it.
|
| Clicks For Andy | Wednesday, August 7, 2024 - 04:38 pm
My old account is expired premium, can't use it to access forum without paying. I came due to discord drama to read the forum, ended up responding.
I have burned out of playing over this horrible implementation, so far all changes in the past couple years have removed options on how to play while adding clicks, it became a job managing all the clicks. Clicks are not a challenge, clicks are not difficulty, clicks are tedious monotony.
Weird to say you know I'm a multi account but you don't care, hopefully that because you can see the original long term account is abandoned. |
| Andy | Wednesday, August 7, 2024 - 11:41 pm
I did not see that the other account was abandoned.
Not all double accounts are a problem.
Most times we let them be.
We act, only if it is clear that they are there to create an advantage on other players.
From our point of view, we have tried in the past year or two, to simplify, even remove or abandon some functions to make things simpler.
TA is very complex but it was meant as a challenge.
we think it will become much more important in the future. |
| Clicks For Andy | Thursday, August 8, 2024 - 12:43 am
The problem with this complexity is the amount of clicks, if you could schedule multiple products at one time for space travel it would drastically reduce the excessive clicks. Having to go through the space screen independently for each product is just tedious, and this tediousness adds no complexity or challenge. Allowing multiple products scheduled at once would maintain the same level of challenge but reduce the annoyance, this would likely have made tiny atlas a hit from the beginning.
Similar to how we've brought up allowing complex contracts, less than every month type thing. So corps that require fractional supplies you can schedule buying 1 unit every x number of months instead of only monthly or only manual contracts. |
| Andy | Thursday, August 8, 2024 - 09:22 am
It will indeed reduce the number of clicks.
I am not sure we will have the possibility to schedule such a change in the short term.
I also wanted to reduce the number of clicks.
I purchase huge amount of products in countries, then start a transport that moves HUGE amounts. 5-10T worth of products and I do not need to transport the same product again for many (real) months. |
| cafecafegames | Friday, August 9, 2024 - 07:51 pm
Hi there Andy.
I'm writing here because this WF/EP situation is just ridiculous.
In "Republica Cafetera" I have 550 Wind Farms with 93 million population. Per your posts I think is between the recommended parameters.
I also own 30 Wind Turbine corporations. 20 there and 10 more in my slave "State of Sebastian". All contracted to me. My current stock of Turbines is 20K.
As you can see I do follow your advice.
However, as I'm writing this, my WF income is 98.5B while my cost is 122.5B.
Yesterday I was in 125B income and cost 120B.
Would you mind to fix this feature?
Thanks in advance. |
| auditor | Friday, August 9, 2024 - 08:00 pm
A little interjection, that while it will help your situation specifically, is probably going to make you even more upset with the GM (rightly so).
The Electric Power provided by the Wind Farms is at a fixed quality level that is changed on the GM's whim. It is currently 135Q, and completely independent of any outside influences.
What that means for you unfortunately, is after briefly looking at your Wind Turbine Corporations, their production quality is maxed out, meaning that even with low quality input supplies, they produce a decent quality product. Which means your country on contract pays more for that higher quality Wind Turbine than it would for a lower quality WT. So you are paying for extra quality on your Wind Turbines that are consumed for maintenance, without receiving any additional benefit for that increased quality. In the current system, a brand new Wind Turbine corporation is more profitable to the self-supplier than one that grows and improves its quality naturally over time with the current default automation settings. As sick as it sounds, and as backwards as it is compared to every other corporation in the game, your Wind Turbines corporation gets worse as it improves if you are using them to self supply your Wind Farms. |
| cafecafegames | Friday, August 9, 2024 - 09:02 pm
Thank you for your comment auditor.
Yeap, I was aware of that but opted to still upgrade their quality with hope for this feature to be changed in the future.
I do think Turbine's quality should affect the output of the product. Specially considering you need the same amount to "pay the upkeep". |
| Andy | Friday, August 9, 2024 - 10:28 pm
Cafecafe,
I can't fix it and it is not up to me to fix it.
We are not managing the markets. You do,
SO: CafeCafe, Please fix it.
Talk to the players who are dumping EP on the market.
I said many times, that if the price of EP will drop, income will decline and there will be losses.
another players dumped 8 Billion units on the market several days ago.
I stopped it and asked him not to do so.
This one I saw.
In fact, as it is now, everyone can do so.
8 Billion units could put WG in a surplus for a very long time.
Currently, selling is not limited.
buying is limited so there is nothing you can do to prevent flooding. |
| Andy | Friday, August 9, 2024 - 10:39 pm
The flooding of the market has nothing to do with quality.
It is the amount of power, not its quality.
and with these surpluses, no quality would help at all.
despite the reduction in the cost of wind turbines that we hoped, will reduce the maintenance cost.
it will continue to fall and now it is delivered at market price which is far lower than the base price.
We started with base price which provided some protection but many players, thinking that the market price will for ever be higher than the base price, requested market price.
Fortunately, it cannot continue for ever.
The amount currently produced is lower than what is used and flooding cannot continue for ever.
If you do not trust the wind energy market, you can easily go back to "No wind energy".
remove the wind farms, and the entire problem will disappear.
Everyone who is not removing them, believes that there is a potential profit. |
| President Wilson | Sunday, August 11, 2024 - 03:39 pm
My empire is going bankrupt because of the Low Electricity Price! |
| James Folsom | Sunday, August 11, 2024 - 07:22 pm
Quote:Fortunately, it cannot continue for ever.
The amount currently produced is lower than what is used and flooding cannot continue for ever.
I wouldn't count on it; the amount produced vs used numbers doesn't account for all the power that is sitting in reserve, nor the large quantities that are contracted. For years players have quietly made money converting nuclear to EP. All the Nuclear is backing up too.
Strap in... |
| souemyss | Monday, August 12, 2024 - 01:15 am
how did it suddenly change now |
| Lioncoeur | Monday, August 12, 2024 - 02:55 am
possible stealth edit of the value of the EP
but that is speculation |
| souemyss | Monday, August 12, 2024 - 12:43 pm
i don't understand why we had to do this
causing more issues than we'd want |
| Leonard238146 | Monday, August 12, 2024 - 01:06 pm
Quote:My empire is going bankrupt because of the Low Electricity Price!
As the price of Electric Power goes down, everything else becomes more profitable as your supply cost, for all corps that use EP and Country needs, is decreased. |
| Breosausa | Tuesday, August 13, 2024 - 12:37 am
Does anyone make money on electricity at this point? My wind farms are losing money (yes they have monthly turbine supply) and I only have 14. My EP corporations are losing 2-3billion a month. It seems all this has done is move costs around to make EP completely unprofitable. (market supply dumping aside). This is dragging down Enterprises that cannot recoup the savings from lower government costs and it does not appear to have helped other corporations which tend to rely on other products much more than the cost of EP. "...everything else becomes more profitable..." doesn't seem to be cutting it as a reason for destroying EP corporations. I guess someone is going to have blink first and start destroying EP companies then the dumping will stop and there won't be any EP. This is one can of worms that should have been left unopened.
Who buys the power from the wind farms anyway? The country? If so when using the common market, do the common market contract monthly requirements get automatically adjusted down based on the amount of wind power produced? Do I still need to contract for the full EP consumption? Or am I supposed to deduct the wind farm output from the monthly usage amount manually and resort to manual contracts? (I hope not) Why don't wind farms have contracts??
There are so many other things that could be done to improve the game without artificially driving EP out of business. EP has been the one stable market over many years of on and off again game play. I'm not even talking game mechanics and calculations. I'm talking web site improvements.
When building roads, why should I have to go back to the country page and navigate back down to new train tracks or new water? A simple link to new train tracks/water would make a huge difference on each of the order submitted pages. On any of the new buildings/facilities pages how about a slider that allows you to say I want to raise my percentage to 125% for roads, show the costs of doing it, and an order button for whatever the number is.
How about a link to the change profession page right from the build a new corporation page when you don't have the workers in the right jobs? I don't have the words for how annoying this must have 100% of workers requirement is when I have to navigate back and forth between pages to fix it. It could be handled with a simple link that lets you go fix it without having to go up two layers and down another two layers and then reverse the process to go build it (again).
These are just some of the simple examples that would make it a better experience for all without damaging the economy. I'm sure others could add a whole lot more examples. These wouldn't drastically alter an interface that is rather long in the tooth at this point either. Anything that helps reduce the back and forth between top level menus and lower ones would be gratefully appreciated. |
| Lioncoeur | Tuesday, August 13, 2024 - 01:20 am
losing money do to broken wind turbine supply chain |
| Leonard238146 | Tuesday, August 13, 2024 - 02:05 am
I don't want to add to the off-topic, but
Quote:When building roads, why should I have to go back to the country page and navigate back down to new train tracks or new water? A simple link to new train tracks/water would make a huge difference on each of the order submitted pages. On any of the new buildings/facilities pages how about a slider that allows you to say I want to raise my percentage to 125% for roads, show the costs of doing it, and an order button for whatever the number is.
I felt the exact same thing when ordering the roads, etc. There is no button to return to the Transportation page from the Building new Roads page. And that just highlighted there really is no need to have more than one page for the Transportation Index, when you can just expand the table with two columns, one for the ordering/destroy quantity and another with the order/close now button. But if tabs were added on the top of the page for roads, trains and water, I'd be happy enough. |
| James Folsom | Tuesday, August 13, 2024 - 03:35 am
Silly players,
We don’t even need those transportation menus. You can just order government infrastructure from products in stock page. Just remove those.
All the cool players supply govt facilities by self contract anyway. Why mess with all those clicks when you put it on auto build and just monitor the indexes, and tune the contracts to match growth. |
| Lioncoeur | Tuesday, August 13, 2024 - 03:55 am
who needs an functioning UI for convenience for a function of the game.
like the extremely outdated space program UI
or the number of other things that need to be worked on for the economy to function better in game. |
| James Folsom | Tuesday, August 13, 2024 - 05:05 pm
The UI has to many ways to do the same thing. It also has multiple menus, that are not even consistent across countries and ceos. It has global pop menu, a side bar menu, a home menu, a ribbon menu at the top. It’s too much and I guarantee it is incomprehensible too new players.
The highest priority of the game master should be to pick a menu and merge alll the other into it. |
| Lioncoeur | Tuesday, August 13, 2024 - 05:41 pm
that would help with the confusion for newbies |
