| Pierre Vajhun | Wednesday, September 8, 2021 - 11:06 pm 
I dunno if this is just me, but I think the enterprise game has changed and not in a good way in the last 2 years... Its harder to set up corporations that are profitable(if u want profits u need natural resources corps) and harder to corporate raid companies because there are not many corporations that it makes sense to do so. I think the limit of corporations a free member can set up is way way to low, corporations need to be reworked so that corporate governance and management of corporations actually makes a diffrence(thats the way it was if u ask me before all the natural resource crap). Let me know what u think about this, I genuenly want to have a discussion about the whole enterprise game.
Have a wonderful day!
Pierre Vajhun |
| Johanas Bilderberg | Thursday, September 9, 2021 - 03:01 am
My big CEO has 1T a month profit even with the double taxation CEO's have.
This is on sales of 6.17T per month.
I don't dabble in natural resources at all. |
| E O | Thursday, September 9, 2021 - 06:56 pm
Sadly, listed profits do not include enterprise taxes. My ceos can list 1T profit while quietly losing money - though this only really applies to larger CEOs. I used to be a big advocate of CEOs, but now they're little more than just props to keep your empires running smoothly.
I don't think adjusting free member ability to build corps will change the playability of the CEO game. Ultimately, CEOs are significantly less profitable than countries these days, and are only worth building for game level purposes or for additional purchasing power. You shouldn't expect to profit much if at all from running a CEO.
Tis sad, but that's my current assessment. |
| Jiggle Billy | Thursday, September 9, 2021 - 07:26 pm
The way the enterprise tax is structured (really no idea what its based on) and the fact that it is only listed in the cash flow section, not profit / loss statement is toxic to enterprises. Today enterprises are only useful to support a profitable empire of countries, they will always be a cash sink. |
| SuperSoldierRCP | Thursday, September 9, 2021 - 09:16 pm
I would agree with EO, they are nice to have, but really lack any additional power besides helping with basic economic functions.
I think if the GM wanted to make CEO more relevant they need to add new reasons for them to be.
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We have a dozen space stations, which are un-needed. What the GM should do is close all but one station per planet and refund all players with docks the full value of the dock(200GC each).
Then reopen the new space stations as "Space mining locations" with each planet having its own station. Each dock (which would act as a corporation) would produce "XXX" amount of a single mineral a month (picked by the player at purchase and requires gold coins to change). After opening, each dock that is operational would need a supply of "Space services" delivered just like any other corporation to make it operation. This would require the shipment of regulars services to keep the dock operation, then produced resourced via space mining are shipped back to a space center.
Since it would heavily require shuttles and a special "space service" to make it work, that can cover most the required cost, along with GC, we would only need to make a single new crop called, "Space services". The monthly costs would be mainly in the shuttles and services keeping the prices comparable to planetary corps, but without the depletable resources this would be a good long term source of income and allow the GM to slowly make the game more "resource dependent".
Even if there was 100 docks(100 corporations) per station that is no where near enough to influence the planetary markets negativity.
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The GM should allow CEO's to contribute relief aid to countries.
They can donate materials to countries in need.
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CEO should be able to "build" hospitals, schools, or transportation. There could be a limit to how much a CEO can build in any given month, but it allows CEO's to help new players. Allowing the building of infrastructure(which has to be approved by the president), would allow CEO's to support new players and create more unity.
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There should be higher production levels in CEO's. The 0.3 quality increase is not nearly as effective as it once was, when you compare to state corps that is a round 10% or less additional income, but is balanced out by CEO costs. The GM should look at bumping the production value slightly. Since CEO can have less employees(which only saves them roughly 1 billion a year), the GM should add a small boost into their production. Allow them to produce more would help markets, increase profitability, and help to give CEO a little extra income, when you consider you can add in all the above features. |
| Lord Mndz | Thursday, September 9, 2021 - 09:19 pm
i can just echo - ceo is the worst part of this game. any single country is much more profitable than ceo with thousands of corps. |
| Johanas Bilderberg | Friday, September 10, 2021 - 01:11 am
I have had the opposite experience.
I make a 100-150B a month profit from my countries.
I don't have the time or inclination to micromanage them to make any more.
CEO is a twice a week cash machine.
Come in, ring the bell, collect 30T and move on with my life.
Even my small CEO is producing over 300B a month. |
| E O | Friday, September 10, 2021 - 02:14 am
For sim quadrillionaires like you, Johanas, it's possible to make money in CEOs, especially if you're not using yours to prop up your own economy. Technically my CEOs sorta make money too - but they're just bad compared to almost any of my countries.
Enterprise tax being hidden also tends to blur how much money you're actually making. Not questioning you or your profitability, just commenting that I actually have no idea how profitable my CEOs end up being because the tax isn't actually shown.
From documentation: "Many Enterprises are successful in the game and make a large monthly profit. Some of the profit is used as "cost of running the enterprise". The cost depends of the financial strength of the enterprise and may range at the level of 0.05% to 0.1% of the total assets of the enterprise per (game) month." Note that it does not matter at all how profitable your enterprise is, just how large it is. A far better system would be an enterprise profits tax, as opposed to enterprise assets tax, but that's not what we're discussing here.
According to enterprise tax rules, Johanas, your big CEO is charged 500b to 1t per game month in hidden tax that doesn't show up in your finance report. I think the point here is I'd enjoy CEOs and agree with you if that wasn't the case, but it is.
Being able to overcome the tax and make profits is great, and I'm glad you can achieve that. I just find that it's significantly more profitable to focus on country profitability than CEO profitability.
Last random thought - because the enterprise tax is based off assets, running high tax in your countries that house CEO corps actually reduces your enterprise tax. Tax the hell out of your own corps to lower their value (and thus lower your enterprise tax). Taxes in your countries are paid to you, enterprise taxes are paid to the sim gods in the void. |
| Weyland | Friday, September 10, 2021 - 09:06 pm
I've got a tiny CEO, 300 corps, and it makes 400B a month, plus 2-3T per month generated from corps I build then IPO. CEO's are huge cash generators. |
| E O | Friday, September 10, 2021 - 09:58 pm
@Weyland, you have a nice CEO.
What's interesting is while it does list in your finance reporting that you make about 400b profit per month, your enterprise appears to be clearing less than 1/2 that.
Your profits chart do show ~400b per month: https://sim02.simcountry.com/cgi-bin/cgi2nova?SN_ADDRESS=wwwCountry&SN_METHOD=w3graph&miTable=enthist&miKey=18269&miColumn=vEnterpriseMonthProfit
Vs. your actual cash position chart which shows you increasing by about 140b per month (2.5 trillion up after 17 months): https://sim02.simcountry.com/cgi-bin/cgi2nova?SN_ADDRESS=wwwCountry&SN_METHOD=w3graph&miTable=enthist&miKey=18269&miColumn=vEnterpriseCash
While the analysis here is super scrubby, I think it illustrates the point players have tried to make on the thread. There is no where that the enterprise tax is displayed, so your listed profits are significantly inaccurate vs. actual, realized profits (yours *appear* to be less than half of the listed profits).
I will say, IPO strategies in CEOs can be significant cash generators. I used to do only mining corps and IPO them all for a bit. Just lots of work. |
| Weyland | Saturday, September 11, 2021 - 10:32 am
I always assumed that was because I am always building new corps so most of my profit is spent? It is a lot of work, I only have 2 countries to maintain but as my empire grows I won't have time to keep up with all the ceo stuff. |
| Lord Mndz | Saturday, September 11, 2021 - 11:35 am
ceo financial page update was promised by Andy to be delivered this year, that should solve this issue. my ceo shows generating 3T per game month but in reality it hardly stays afloat. |
| Lord Mndz | Saturday, September 11, 2021 - 11:35 am
. |
| Weyland | Saturday, September 11, 2021 - 05:07 pm
Is it set up this way to prevent enterprises becoming too large the same way that having too many countries in an empire will ruin the economy? I can get that. I don't like the idea of players having basically infinite cash reserves, makes the game too top heavy. |
| Lord Mndz | Sunday, September 12, 2021 - 07:14 am
problem is that there is no plan for ceo game play development. cash is only one aspect and is not a problem as peaceful countries do the same cash mining.
ceo is overall overprotected, not dynamic, prevented from competition or making influence to the market which would be fun to play.
people love to play an influence, trading, politics or competition, but this is not thought into ceo features. |
| High-King Rene Sarabia II | Monday, September 13, 2021 - 07:27 am
I would like to learn more about CEO gameplay. |
| Pierre Vajhun | Monday, September 13, 2021 - 07:37 pm
I appreciate what u guys had to say about this but what I want to add is that the CEO gameplay is really really bad in my opnion. I agree with Lord Mndz there is just not enough for CEOs to do. CEO should have more influence over the whole economy. There should be powerful competition between enterprises( like overtaking each others corporations, price wars, etc.). Again I would like to thank each of you guys for sharing your thoughts.
Have a wonderful day!
Pierre Vajhun |
