| John Galt | Saturday, January 4, 2020 - 09:47 pm 
Greetings presidents of Little Upsilon, I am calling for assistance from the international community to deal with a rogue president who is engaging in unprovoked economic warfare against me.
The countries of this player are:
countryeroony
AG Kingdom
Roonyoid
Bella Land
The CEO of this player is:
Shadwell Davidson
I am asking for members to initiate boycotts on his main country "countryeroony". This can be done by clicking Trade --> Boycotts --> New Boycott Request. I am also asking for members to support the security council resolutions that are being proposed to sanction this individual. LDI has returned fire with counter bids on his corporations, and we will continue our economic counter attack until this rogue president is stopped. Unfortunately due to the game breaking war level system, we are unable to take military action at this time. The Lacerta Defense Initiative will always stand ready to defend the international order on Little Upsilon. We appreciate any support from the international community in getting this boycott started. LDI always remembers those who support us. |
| Johanas Bilderberg | Sunday, January 5, 2020 - 02:27 am
This is why we need fallout. Radiation cures asshattery. |
| John Galt | Sunday, January 5, 2020 - 04:39 am
Indeed. This kind of bad behaviour is encouraged by the war level system. It is pretty irritating that players can wage economic war against me with no risk to their empires. I have been hit by 13 hostile bids. Only 4 succeeded. Our first counter punch hit him back with around 30 hostile bids. More will follow when they resolve. We also proposed two security council nuclear sanctions against him. I am keeping my fingers crossed that we can get enough votes for the boycott to activate. I have 6 confirmed votes, so we are only 4 votes away from a stage 1 boycott. |
| ROBERT E LEE | Sunday, January 5, 2020 - 04:42 am
DEATH TO THE INFIDELS , BLESS THE PINKTATOR
- Robert E Lee |
| Daniel Iceling | Sunday, January 5, 2020 - 06:19 am
John Galt,
I'm reasonably sure you would already have done everything I am going to ask about, but just to be sure that nothing was missed in the heat of the moment...
Have you been able to contact the player in question?
Sometimes players don't realize how aggressive it is to bid on other player's corporations, without their permission. Sometimes situations like these can be resolved by conversation.
I'm assuming you asked them to stop bidding on your Corporations, and they refused?
If we can establish that the player knows they are being aggressive, and they are refusing to stop, I would gladly support all boycott, and sanction requests. Until this dispute is resolved.
On war levels, I don't think they really at fault here. Between boycotts, sanctions, and your own hostile counter bids, you are showing that they are many ways to wage your own retaliation campaign, without needing to directly bomb a country.
Signed President of DanNation on LU |
| John Galt | Sunday, January 5, 2020 - 06:33 am
I asked him to stop after the first 2 bids. He refused and doubled down with 11 more bids against me. I normally dont escalate hostile bids if it is just a one off, but 13 bids is excessive. |
| Lord Mndz | Sunday, January 5, 2020 - 09:20 am
What is the problem with these bids? Players overpay a lot and you can always use received funds to raise even more corporations. |
| Daniel Iceling | Sunday, January 5, 2020 - 09:43 am
Lord Mndz,
CEOs can't open new Corporations, unless they have fewer than 750 Corporations.
So for large and experienced CEOs, the Corp can be very hard to replace.
Presidents, can only build new Corporations, if they have enough workforce to staff it.
So, if the hostile bidder keeps the Corp in your country, it means you can't replace it.
On the other hand, if they take it out of the country, it disrupts employment and workforce distribution, as you upgrade it's replacement.
As such, most players regard is as a hostile act, to bid on someone's Corporations, without first asking them if it is ok.
Signed President of DanNation on LU |
| Lord Mndz | Sunday, January 5, 2020 - 11:46 am
You can buy shares and grow beyond 750, you can raise taxes to encourage people to move corporations away to lower taxes countries. Many options. |
| Letsie | Sunday, January 5, 2020 - 01:04 pm
@mndz
Your points are all valid and I really understand what you are saying. I would like to try and explain to you why (especially large ceo) people get frustrated by hostile bids.
Once you have been playing a while and your empire grows and grows and grows the focus of the game starts changing. When you begin money is all that matters. You do not have enough of it and you want and need more of it. After a while there comes a moment when you can comfortably generate enough money to do the things that you want to do. When you hit that point your biggest enemy is no longer the money but time.
Your ceo can no longer grow through just building corps. The only way to grow is through acquiring shares. There are only so many shares you can buy and buying them takes time.
If somebody places hostile bids you end up with extra cash (which you do not care that much about anymore) in the short run so YAY!?!? but it takes much longer to replace those corps and that is assuming it is even possible to replace them through buying shares. That is why it is so frustrating if somebody does not want to stop hostile bidding. |
| Lord Mndz | Sunday, January 5, 2020 - 07:30 pm
Letsie,
I understand that everybody just wants to build many profitable corporations and never change them no matter how game is changing. It is very bad because people are most engaged into the game when they are building their economies. Once you are getting enough of money and stop building you get bored in time.
This game provides a lot of opportunities how to grow economy and military but this is never ending journey you should never stop building and improving, changing then necessary. Wars and hostile takeovers add some human interaction which is fun.
Take the money and build 10x times more corporations. |
| Johanas Bilderberg | Sunday, January 5, 2020 - 07:58 pm
I agree generally speaking.
Hostile bids should be a part of the game just as getting your ass whipped on the battlefield for hostile bidding should be part of the game. War levels and keeping people in a safe space only encourages asshattery.
Every action should have the option of an opposite and equal reaction IMO. |
| Lord Mndz | Sunday, January 5, 2020 - 08:06 pm
sure |
| The_Wicked_Lady | Sunday, January 5, 2020 - 08:21 pm
Well you know I'll put in my two shoes worth! lol Here goes:
I am the first one to forgive players, especially new ones who don't know any better. However, this player GarryDAvidson1 has been around for a while and should know better. Hostile bidding has always been frowned upon in the game.
The point in this instance is that John Galt responded to said player asking him to stop, and the player did not. That is a sign of disrespect, and in my book, a valid point for retaliation in the game. I wholeheartedly support John Galt and have requested the boycott and put a few hostile bids in myself against this player to send a clear message that this will not be tolerated by players.
I ask very n nicely for this player to cease and desist in his behavior.
All my best,
The Wicked Lady |
| Michael | Tuesday, January 7, 2020 - 03:36 pm
Have you talked to Shadwell. Maybe he does not know that what he is doing is in fact hostile. He seems like an ok player and I don't see any nasty agenda on his part. I have voted against your Security Council motions. I think John Galt is fearmongering. |
| The_Wicked_Lady | Tuesday, January 7, 2020 - 04:05 pm
Dear Simcountry Players,
This player, GarryDavidson1, has ignored repeated requests by John Galt to cease in his reprehensible behavior in the game. While the game does allow hostile bidding, for as long as I have played, this has been frowned upon. The only difference between now and some 10 years ago, such an act could be warded off through war declarations.
Our federation, LDI, has put forth a cohesive response to ask this player to stop. Yet, this player has threatened to buy more gold coins and continue in his deplorable actions. Yes, he is a "deplorable." I just shake my head at this extreme form of "asshatery" especially during a time when we as a community in Simcountry are trying to encourage people to play the game and stay engaged.
We have put forth through the Security Council several resolutions to detain this player, GarryDavidson1. I respectfully ask this community to support these.
The countries of this player are:
countryeroony
AG Kingdom
Roonyoid
Bella Land
It is also my understanding that this player has put forth a resolution against John Galt's country/ies. I ask that all of you vote this down.
We must make a stand as a community to frown upon these types of behaviors since war is off the table.
@Michael I am very disappointed in your decision to vote against our resolutions, especially not knowing the full details. I am VERY disappointed, indeed. |
| Daniel Iceling | Tuesday, January 7, 2020 - 04:12 pm
Johanas Bilderberg,
Whats the solution for war as the main means of 'asshattery'? Having a few Corps taken over, is nothing compared to the constant wipe outs, that players used to suffer, before the war levels were implemented.
Wars as a solution to bidding, is like death as a solution to a cold. Yeah, it solves it, by making it x100 worse.
I just don't get this whole 'killing each other makes everything better' mentality. If giving someone the option of a hostile bidding on other player's corps lets them cause problems, giving them the option to bomb people would make them worse, and giving them nuclear bombs with region wide fallout, would let them be even worse still.
Big players abusing their power, engaging in asshattery attacking everyone else, is why we got war levels in the first place. If people could use unlimited war power responsibly, the war levels would never have been implemented in the first place. To solve the utter mess players caused before it.
Letting misunderstandings escalate into bomb drops. Is a great way to cause even more chaos and destruction. We all solve problems in real life without shooting each other. We can do the same thing as Presidents in Simcountry. |
| The_Wicked_Lady | Tuesday, January 7, 2020 - 04:18 pm
@ My Lord, Mndz,
Hugs, first. I understand what you are saying, but I think if a player asks another player to stop hostile bidding his corporations, that player should be respectful and cease. The mere fact that this player has continued and has placed bids on NUMEROUS corporations is absolutely terrible and quite frankly breaks my heart.
Again, my intention here is to keep players playing and engaged, and this is something that could potentially run players out of the game or give up. I'm not saying this is the case for John Galt, because he is a seasoned player and knows how to handle himself. But what if this was another player who hasn't been here long?
I am appalled at this player's behavior. This player will never receive any support of mine in the game as a result.
Now I am off to write my son, Andy, to send a horrific earthquake GarryDavidson1's way.
Love ya!
The Wicked Lady |
| The_Wicked_Lady | Tuesday, January 7, 2020 - 04:32 pm
@ Daniel Iceberg,
I am really very shocked at responses like yours and Michael's. I have never been a war player trying to wipe others out (although I wanted for that to happen to some lol). Even I understand the need for wars as deterrents to bad behaviors. LDI on LU is peaceful. We are not the ones hostile bidding players against their wishes. But come on, this game gives you no countermeasure to these forms of asshattery without war declarations. Obviously asking nicely doesn't work. Obviously counter bids and resolutions don't work. Just saying. There is nothing wrong with mentioning the word "war".
JohnGalt and others in LDI are NOT the bad guys. We did not start this. Our efforts have been in trying to build this game up, not bring it down. The same has been for Mndz and Dubletar. We want a good game back! |
| Daniel Iceling | Tuesday, January 7, 2020 - 04:39 pm
The Wicked Lady,
Hugs for you too, wicked lady 
It makes me happy to see someone wanting to look after the people they play the game with.
We could all benefit from taking more time to consider the impact we have on other players, and less time on our own short term self interest.
It's heartwarming to see player's that are taking the impact on newer, and smaller players into consideration. Simcountry thrives when we work together, not when we tear each other apart. |
| The_Wicked_Lady | Tuesday, January 7, 2020 - 05:14 pm
Hugs you, Daniel. Thank you, I needed that. :-D
You know, I love you ALL! |
| Michael | Tuesday, January 7, 2020 - 05:43 pm
My apologies then as I did not know John or his fed had already asked this player to stop what he was doing.
I never said John or for that matter anyone else was the bad guy. Unfortunately I did not have all the facts in the matter.
Not sure if I can change my vote or abstain.
Hopefully all will be worked out.
This player has contacted me (to purchase or set up corps) in my country. He seems rather decent so I am rather shocked by what all has transpired. |
| The_Wicked_Lady | Tuesday, January 7, 2020 - 06:55 pm
Thank you, Michael. We don't really have a proper response from this player as to why, just that he will buy more coins and spend whatever money is necessary to do what he wants.
Until I see a cease with his hostile bidding and a public apology to JohnGalt and the community, I will not support this player in any future endeavors. |
| Johanas Bilderberg | Wednesday, January 8, 2020 - 03:39 am
Daniel.
The only way a man can be peaceful is when he is capable of extreme violence and chooses not to exercise it. The only path to a peaceful simcountry is when common courtesy is mutual between all players. The stick to ensure common courtesy is sim warfare, the carrot is peaceful coexistance. It is how the game was in the beginning and how it should be now.
Sometimes a little fish should stay under rocks and not swim in the deep end with the sharks or talk smack as the case may be. |
| The_Wicked_Lady | Wednesday, January 8, 2020 - 06:24 am
i agree with johanas and the wicked lady |
| Daniel Iceling | Wednesday, January 8, 2020 - 07:52 am
Johanas Bilderberg,
In real life, deterrence through strength is an effective policy.
Everyone has everything to lose in a war, their homes, their communities, their loved ones, their lives. Even the victors suffer horrible loses.
In a simulated world however. People can only lose in-game assets. Which, to some players will always have little meaning.
In real life, a nuclear counter strike, is an effect deterrent to a nuclear attack. However, in a game, there will always be someone that wants to do it, just for fun, even if they suffer large loses.
People don't start wars for fun in real life, because the personal risk and cost, is far to high. In a simulation/game, people often take risks and do destructive things, they wouldn't be willing to do in real life situations.
That's why a game world, needs more safeguards than the real world. Deterrence doesn't stop people doing things for the 'lolz' in a game, like it does in real life.
If everyone cared equally about their in game countries, like they do their real life ones, we could use deterrence to prevent war. Realistically though, in a game, some players just can't be deterred, because they don't care enough about the consequences.
That is why games/simulations need war protection mechanics. |
| Johanas Bilderberg | Wednesday, January 8, 2020 - 01:09 pm
That is why you need war protection. You aren't everyone. Build an adequate defense, join a federation, don't be an asshat. That is enough protection for a game.
Dropping war levels would bring some life back to this game, Federations used to be the way new players learned how to function. They created player retention and long term friendship. World politics was an active part of the game. Actions had consequences, little fish had a school to hide in, and the game was not only more fun but also alive.
War is the answer. |
| dubletar | Wednesday, January 8, 2020 - 02:38 pm
Maybe the answer is then mutually assured destruction? Super powered nukes that are incredibly hard to stop? Two nuclear armed foes that know if one or the other engaged in warfare, both may not lose their states, but would lose everything in them, as they're both obliterated?
Maybe this calls for an automated launch system? If another player launches weapons at you, your nation launches immediately and automatically as well.
Thus it becomes a true deterrent.
With the player able to set priority of targets (population centers, corps, forts, etc).
And the automated system rapidly fires nukes on each target as the nuclear stockpile allows.
This would immediately force people to think before dropping nukes.
The only problem is the ability of anyone to take a c3 and fire nukes from there. |
| dubletar | Wednesday, January 8, 2020 - 02:46 pm
One way around the C3 exploit, for mutually assured destruction,bus to allow the automated system to fire on a number of states owned by the attacker, without the need to officially declare war.
So let's say Country A declares war on Country B, using a recently conquered C3, to shield Country A from losses/risk.
Country A has 6 (5 states plus the new c3) states.
Country B has 5 states.
Let's say Country A decides to use the C3 to nuke a state in Country B. Only Country A's c3 is officially at war with Country B's states.
If Country A launches a nuke from the C3, Country B's automated system kicks in and targets any target in any state owned by Country A, without the need to declare war, based on priority of targets (population centers, corporations, bases, forts, etc).
Now, to launch a nuke is a very delicate situation. |
| Stratis | Wednesday, January 8, 2020 - 03:03 pm
I agree fully with Johanas. The game now feels like a shell of its former self. Dropping war levels would bring that life blood of interaction back into the game. Interaction between players has always been the culprit behind higher rates of player retention for me personally and the many friends I have made in the game. |
| The_Wicked_Lady | Wednesday, January 8, 2020 - 04:14 pm
The point still remains that we have a player in the game who is being disrespectful to another player as it relates to hostile bidding. If we allow this to happen, what will protect you in the future from such vile behavior? In my opinion, if this GarryDavidson1 wasn't a jerk, when asked to stop, he would have. But no, this player thumbed his nose and doubled his efforts. So, what do we do as a community?
If war is off the table, there needs to be some means of a countermeasure. I understand the argument about the previous war game which ultimately could wipe players out, but there needs to be some form of response that would grab the attention of the offender.
I have always advocated for the need of federations in the game. Playing with a group of players is way more fun. It's a teaching tool for new players. You stand for and defend each other. Federations promote true competition in the game, and as Johanas stated earlier, it promotes friendships that last years and years!
It may not be the GMs decision to put war back in the entire game. I do think there needs to be a penal system to retaliate when apparent talks do not work. |
| The_Wicked_Lady | Wednesday, January 8, 2020 - 07:31 pm
I should add...........providing that an eco war doesn't make it quit. |
| Daniel Iceling | Thursday, January 9, 2020 - 06:13 am
Common Markets, CEOs, and economic cooperation are a good way to foster constructive player interaction.
There are 21 different enterprises, all with Corporations based in my country. It's in each of our interests to ensure that the other thrives. My success in managing the country, helps them succeed in making a successful enterprise. Their success in managing their enterprise, helps me develop my country.
Because of this we share knowledge openly. Helping each other succeed, and giving advice, as there is nothing to gain from sabotaging each other. And everything to gain from working together.
I've made friends in this game, and spent many hours talking to other players. All without having to destroy anyone.
By comparison, if players were actively fighting and hunting for targets. We wouldn't want to make each other successful, because that would just made our potential future rivals stronger.
Instead of openly talking and posting on forums, people would be 'hiding under a rock' trying not to get noticed. Not interacting, just keeping their head down. While big military players harassed others with impunity, knowing that they could just destroy anyone that called them out on it.
War isn't interaction, it's aggression. Shooting at people that disagree with you isn't consequences, it's harassment and abuse of power. That's the last thing we should be actively encouraging in Simcountry.
Frankly, if hostile bidding is causing such a problem. There is an easy option, remove it. If the game didn't give us tools designed to beat each other up, we wouldn't need to fight about there misuse. |
| Johanas Bilderberg | Thursday, January 9, 2020 - 03:03 pm
Nothing about warfare precludes cooperation and open discussion. In fact it encourages it.
Large Federations served as universities teaching new players the techniques to move from little fish to medium sized fish to finally big fish. Recruitment was a major part of the forums, Education, active politics and mutual defense was the main benefit of joining.
The easy solution is to allow players to choose a path that limits them to a single world, single country and peaceful mode. They could sit in the corner and play with their trains. CEO's could avoid that world and I see it as win win.
The real players meanwhile would have all options open to them, and the game might get some life back into it. |
| Stratis | Thursday, January 9, 2020 - 03:56 pm
^agreed. |
| Daniel Iceling | Friday, January 10, 2020 - 07:00 am
Johanas Bilderberg,
CEOs are a critical part of economic gameplay. Additionally, they is no reason to limit paying players to a single country, or a single world, just because they don't want to bomb people.
On one thing we agree. A separate world is probably part of a solution. Since Crison One was a colossal failure, (not enough people were actually interested in signing up for a true PvP world, so it couldn't even get off the ground), Fearless Blue is the natural choice for the war players.
War restrictions could be eased on Fearless Blue, with little impact on the majority of Simcountry's player base, that don't wish to participate in war. (As evidenced by the vast majority of players, remaining at war level 0, even as though there are large and unrealistic incentives to engage in unnecessary fights).
That way, we could have the best of both systems. Simcountry for the regular players. Fearless Blue without restrictions, for the war gamers. |
| Doreen Murphy | Friday, January 10, 2020 - 10:33 am
Hello, I want to join but I have never engaged any wars could someone help how to get started please i am gladly to listen and help. thank you. |
| Johanas Bilderberg | Friday, January 10, 2020 - 01:09 pm
So your idea is four dead worlds and one semi alive? That seems selfish.
One country is always secured as long as you never expand you have nothing to worry about. Yet here we are. You will never expand so why do you worry so?
That is the real question. |
| Daniel Iceling | Friday, January 10, 2020 - 04:45 pm
Johanas Bilderberg,
There are four peaceful worlds, and only one war one, because there aren't enough war players to populate two. Remember Crimson One? The full PvP world, the fully 'alive' world, by your standards. Which incidentally, had fewer players than any other world in the game.
Also the game isn't 'dead', hardly a day goes by that I don't have some form of interaction with other players, worker exchanges, coordinating with CEOs, discussions about the game, learning about different mechanics. War doesn't equal life, and peace doesn't equal death.
As to your second point. I care about other players, and it's fundamentally unfair to prohibit expansion for peaceful players, even though they pay just as much for the game. No one paying for the game, should be banned from expanding, just because they aren't fighting wars. Also, I already answered this multiple times in previous posts.
Why is it so hard to understand? That players that registered and paid to play an economic simulation game, when there are tonnes of war game alternatives, don't want to waste their time fighting off pointless wars.
Everyone can play Simcountry with as much war as they want. Secured mode is optional, and can be disabled. War Level Protection is optional, and can be disabled. Every war player can already fight each other as much as they want. If more players want to be part of PvP, they can join it, any time they want. Not a single change to the game is required to enable PvP players to fight each other freely.
The only thing that isn't allowed, is attacking peaceful players, that aren't part of the PvP game. Why is being allowed to attack people that aren't trying to fight anyone, so important to you? Peaceful players aren't second class citizens and their countries aren't 'content' to be destroyed for others amusement.
I'm starting to feel like the only reason the big military players keep demanding the removal of war protection mechanics, is because they don't actually want to fight real wars, they just want easy targets. Why else do they keep demanding to be able to attack peaceful players? When they are free to fight other militaristic players, as much as they want. |
| Johanas Bilderberg | Sunday, January 12, 2020 - 08:41 pm
You misunderstand war levels. If any player expands their empire they move past WL 3 they are fair game for a war. The only "peaceful" option is to remain a single country.
There is no peaceful world.
Also my concern is to bring back raiding. Taking inactive countries before they derreg is a great way to gain assets. I have taken many countries, reworked them, sold them on the market or at the very least stripped out the population and assets for my own use.
I don't have any intention of fighting new players. They don't have anything worth taking. |
| The_Wicked_Lady | Monday, January 13, 2020 - 08:16 pm
@ Daniel and rest of Community:
Hey there, Daniel!
When people come in to look at Simcountry, they judge the game by what they see - the amount of activity in the forums and the chat and what they read in the war decs section, the newspapers on your country pages. If players don't talk to each other in the open, there are no game politics being discussed,no wars, no federation competition, no game banter, they view Simcountry as "dead".
I've invited several past players to come back to the game. They pop in (and I know many other do) to see what's going on! Their response, "Game is dead".
This breaks my heart, because I remember how things once were. The forums had talk/politics on all world threads, not just General.
I have stressed so many times how it is important that we, the current players of the game, talk to each other and work together to learn, to expand...to really learn everything this game has to offer. Free players can come in and experience a scaled down version of the game, but we want you free players to become premium ones and be part of this game's long-time history. There have really been some great players to grace this game. Some of these players are here today encouraging players and willing to teach:
JohnGalt
Johanas
Mndz
Dubletar
Letsie (who has just taken a sabbatical)
Ragnar
Robert_E_Lee
Jeffcd
and I'm sure there are many more! I've seen some recent returns, like Stratis and Nuke508.
I encourage everyone to speak up and get busy! Take a chance!
Happy Simming to All of You!
The Wicked Lady |
| The_Wicked_Lady | Monday, January 13, 2020 - 10:39 pm
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, no pressure on anyone! ha ha ha ha
*Sticks tongue out at Dubletar! ha ha ha ha |
| dubletar | Monday, January 13, 2020 - 10:48 pm
;)
<3 |
